Lancia Motor Club

Model Technical and Interest => Aurelia => Topic started by: bruciebonuz on 27 January, 2014, 10:43:31 AM



Title: B20 Aurelia purchase
Post by: bruciebonuz on 27 January, 2014, 10:43:31 AM
As some of you may know, I was on the verge of purchasing a 4th series B20 Aurelia from overseas.  Sadly fate intervened to conspire against me and after many months of waiting the car was actually involved in an accident on the morning of it being taken to the inspection.  Not only that, but it happened in its own garage....when a builder reversed back into it causing not major, but not minor damage.   The seller was only selling because of a degenerative eye condition which would result in him being unable to drive the car....but, in what is unquestionably a positive development, the eye condition is not as bad as first thought so he wont be selling after all and will have the car restored instead....I am genuinely pleased by this and do believe fate had a hand in it to ensure he kept his pride and joy.

So that leaves me having sold the Fanalone, cash in the bank and a car sized space in the garage.  I would still love an Aurelia but fear what with prices the way they are and my relatively modest budget, that that boat may have sailed......and so I have been looking at Porsche 356s (proof positive that Porsches rust just as bad as any one claims Italian cars do...)

Anyway, before I do leave the world of Lancias (at least for a few years) I have been looking at whats out there that may be in my price range and which could be something I could improve.  There isnt much, if anything.

There is this one:  http://www.stolzeclassiccars.nl/aanbod/376/lancia-aurelia-b20/

Its gold.  I am sure there is a good reason why it hasnt sold (may be something to do with the fact that Mr Stolze rarely answers his phone) aside from the colour but appreciate any thoughts.  

Thanks

Jonathan


Title: Re: B20 Aurelia purchase
Post by: Parisien on 27 January, 2014, 11:29:13 AM
I am sure there are still a number of B20s requiring restoration in the UK, some have sat for 10/20/30 years awaiting their turn, perhaps making discrete inquiries would allow one or two to surface, the forum has only a small percentage of owners of same on it on a regular basis, so using the required section of VL and asking the right people by word of mouth will produce a result.

Hoping you can realise the dream and bring yet another B20 back to life


P


Title: Re: B20 Aurelia purchase
Post by: DavidLaver on 27 January, 2014, 11:40:58 AM

If it was me I'd start with Ade Rudler, Ron Francis, Elizabeth Cliffe, Peter Harding.  I am, however, some 20 years out of date...

Who else?

Thornley Kelham seem to be hovering up parts and projects for stock.

David


Title: Re: B20 Aurelia purchase
Post by: Parisien on 27 January, 2014, 11:44:37 AM
Yes, a good list and one or two others who are less public, but others might put a word in for you, ie a few might not want what they own publicised!

I suspect the difficulty is that if the guys above are selling them at a commercial price it makes buying from them much less attractive, if budgetary restrains are in place


P


Title: Re: B20 Aurelia purchase
Post by: duelitriemezzo on 27 January, 2014, 01:35:06 PM
hello,
i saw the car when it was shown at OLDTIMERGALERIE.CH in 2006 or 2007.
It seemed to me in very good shape. No rust, nothing important to do.
And complete.
I have a lot of photo. I can send them to you.
(http://)


Title: Re: B20 Aurelia purchase
Post by: DavidLaver on 27 January, 2014, 01:47:55 PM

Many in that list - if not all - have been known to act as match maker with no commercial gain to themselves.

Its "putting the word out"...  Its a small world and it will soon go round that "someone is looking".

David.


Title: Re: B20 Aurelia purchase
Post by: bruciebonuz on 27 January, 2014, 01:50:05 PM
Thanks - I have previously spoken to Omicron and Peter Harding, nothing at the moment.  Will put a few more calls out. 

I should also thank those on this forum that offered their help and advice when I was looking at the overseas B20 which fell through - very much appreciated.


Title: Re: B20 Aurelia purchase
Post by: Parisien on 27 January, 2014, 01:51:57 PM
I had used the word if.......and of course some may have paid for said B 20s and don't want to loose on them if deciding to sell on, but yes, I suspect an agreement could be arrived at, plus in everyones interest


P


Title: Re: B20 Aurelia purchase
Post by: the.cern on 27 January, 2014, 02:14:40 PM
Jonathan, every cloud has a silver lining and the present owner of that B20 is definitely a lucky man. However, fate has not smiled kindly on you on this particular occasion. I would suggest that you do nothing in a hurry and exhaust all avenues suggested in this thread before you jump ship.

Good luck, there must be a B20 out there for you somewhere.

                                     Andy


Title: Re: B20 Aurelia purchase
Post by: bruciebonuz on 27 January, 2014, 02:42:56 PM
I am trying...but every month goes by and they just keep driving that bit faster up the appreciation curve leaving me in their dust  :) 

Lord March didnt help either - if only he had bought a Morris Marina.


Title: Re: B20 Aurelia purchase
Post by: DavidLaver on 27 January, 2014, 03:41:50 PM

Perhaps an Aurelia saloon plus an Integrale?

David


Title: Re: B20 Aurelia purchase
Post by: bruciebonuz on 27 January, 2014, 03:45:47 PM
Only one garage and the B20 is where the heart lies.  I really question how many of these very expensive 100k plus cars sell? - they all seem to have been on the market forever.  The only ones that seem to sell are the ones priced below 80k and they sell before the ads go live.


Title: Re: B20 Aurelia purchase
Post by: DavidLaver on 27 January, 2014, 04:35:40 PM

I'm still going to play the "two for one" game:

http://www.rtcc.co.uk/used-morgan-proteus-carver/lancia-aprilia-1500

Some of the detail on that I'd change, but I bet that would be a lot of fun.  Same tyres but less weight than an Aurelia.  The rear suspension every bit as good and the front just the same.  You'd not have the lovely V6 and motorway legs...so add to that "garage":

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C440860

The Lancia engineers worked very hard to improve on the Aurelia, and the Flaminia is the result of that labour.  More refined, comfortable, capacious, more robust and easier to maintain.

An argument for the "two for one" is that running the Aurelia every day eventually I'd start to resent its limits. Then I'd switch to the MG Midget and appreciate all that's brilliant about that until I'd start to resent its limits.  Then I'd switch to the Aurelia and so on.  Between the two I never wanted for anything more modern be that for performance or refinement or ease of use. Having two on the go the maintenance was less an issue as I "had a spare one".  Even if you run something sensible (or not!!) day to day having two doubles your chances of one being available for any given event.

David


Title: Re: B20 Aurelia purchase
Post by: bruciebonuz on 27 January, 2014, 04:51:23 PM
Alas I only have the one small garage.  And a wife who likes the B20 (albeit not as much as the Porsche 356).  As the married men on here will know, having a supportive wife is a definite benefit when splashing the cash on any car.



Title: Re: B20 Aurelia purchase
Post by: lancialulu on 27 January, 2014, 04:54:53 PM
Jonathan

I jumped back from Porsche (993 Targa to be precise) and would not go back. You have been warned!! Seriously though I though 4 reasonable seats was the key issue and a 356 does not really address this......

Tim


Title: Re: B20 Aurelia purchase
Post by: DavidLaver on 27 January, 2014, 04:58:10 PM
Say no more...

Another option - my "Plan B" when I was Aurelia shopping - in truth "Plan A" as I never thought I'd be able to stretch to or be brave enough to take on an Aurelia - was one of these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Alfa_Romeo_Giulietta_Sprint_Blaye_2013_01.JPG

For a four seater is there, or has there ever been, a finer car than a Flavia Zagato :)

David


Title: Re: B20 Aurelia purchase
Post by: bruciebonuz on 27 January, 2014, 05:13:57 PM
Hi Tim,  four seats isnt a big issue.  There are 5 in the family.  Or 6 if you include the new dog.

A classic is really for me, occasionally one or two of the kids for the odd ride here and there and occasionally just me and the wife as a treat.   For all 6 of us to go anywhere its the 12 year old 105k mile ratty as hell X5.



Title: Re: B20 Aurelia purchase
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 27 January, 2014, 05:26:12 PM
Only one garage and the B20 is where the heart lies.  I really question how many of these very expensive 100k plus cars sell? - they all seem to have been on the market forever.  The only ones that seem to sell are the ones priced below 80k and they sell before the ads go live.
I think your comments about sub 80K cars sums up the Aurelia market, if you could find a nice B20 for this price you should snatch the sellers hand off!
If you can find a nice original B20 for less than 100K you need to be going to see it asap, because it may be you last chance to buy one at this price.
Over 100K if you have the money fine, but at this price I think they have to be 100%.  
Next year you will be reading this again wishing the prices were still this low.

I would not dismiss the Aurelia saloon, they may not quite have the looks of the B20, or the speed, BUT they have everything else.
Really nice ones in Europe are now advertised at over 30K. Don't wait too long or you will be too late!
You should go and see this one while it is still available
http://www.europeanclassiccars.co.uk/cars_25.html
I have seen it and driven it, I was almost tempted to sell the B50 to buy it, but then the other car (as in David's buy two instead of one senario) was sold , so I changed my mind.

I know of two ex-Aurelia owners who wish they hadn't sold their cars and are now desperatly trying to find one at a sensible price to no avail.


Title: Re: B20 Aurelia purchase
Post by: B20B24 on 27 January, 2014, 06:54:49 PM
I have a 356 Porsche I'm selling soon - I'll PM you

Clive


Title: Re: B20 Aurelia purchase
Post by: Parisien on 27 January, 2014, 07:27:18 PM
That B10 is very nice, only down side is the lack of relative ooommmmppphhhh, styling wise etc, its wonderful....:)


P


Title: Re: B20 Aurelia purchase
Post by: B20B24 on 27 January, 2014, 08:44:12 PM
I'm biased but the 356 is a terrific looking and driving car.

Its also - dare I say it - as well built and designed as the B20.

And to work on - a doddle.

 :)



Title: Re: B20 Aurelia purchase
Post by: DavidLaver on 28 January, 2014, 10:05:40 PM

Just a sly drool...

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C454599

Interesting to see how many are advertised.

David


Title: Re: B20 Aurelia purchase
Post by: fay66 on 28 January, 2014, 10:47:18 PM

Just a sly drool...

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C454599

Interesting to see how many are advertised.

David
Yet another case of the owner not giving an asking price,I don't know why people bother to advertise, are they too shy to say what they want for it? seems to be quite a proliferation of this practice lately, looking in 'Classic Car Weekly' last week there's at least 30 cars advertised without the asking price, seems to be mostly Dealers with mainly email addresses followed by the phone number, why do they think anyone would want to bother without even a ball park figure to go on, I certainly wouldn't.
Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: B20 Aurelia purchase
Post by: B20B24 on 29 January, 2014, 08:13:28 AM
I know the guy selling that B20. He wanted 70k Euros 3/4 months ago, but his price fluctuates according to who asks, hence the POA. Rot free apparently but needs restoration.


Title: Re: B20 Aurelia purchase
Post by: chriswgawne on 29 January, 2014, 03:20:02 PM
If the Genoan seller of the black 2nd Series B20 is who I think it is, I have never known him sell anything Aurelia related for less than top money. Having said that, he always seems to be open and honest about ther condition of the cars and he has a lot of original spare parts so the 'completeness' of the car shouldnt be a problem.
Chris


Title: Re: B20 Aurelia purchase
Post by: chriswgawne on 29 January, 2014, 03:59:49 PM
Hello Jonathan,
Sorry to hear that you didnt get the B20 from last year....but if you really want one then persist. You only live once!!
Regarding the gold B20 at Stolze, he has had it for a while and I am afraid have a bit of a thing about non-original colours. B20s are understated cars - and certainly not ever 'in your face' like this one. I recall Michael Newberry had a gold B20 some years ago and to me it looked a little bright in the flesh.

Picking up on another point in a post, I disagree that there are still lots of UK Aurelia projects around. It took me a year to find my current project - an early 4th series B20 which I am now about to start re-assembling - and that was 3 years ago now which is really before the boom.
Not sure what to suggest other than to move quickly and decisively once you see or hear of something of interest. What seems to be happening now is that prospective B20 buyers are trying to open conversations with B20 owners who are not even advertising their cars for sale. It has happened to me.
I promise you that if you buy a good well sorted car, you and your wife will thoroughly enjoy it.
Chris


Title: Re: B20 Aurelia purchase
Post by: bruciebonuz on 29 January, 2014, 05:03:29 PM
I will continue to keep a keen eye out but may well get a 356 in the meantime.  I could wait a long time for an Aurelia and am keen to replace the Fanalone before the cash gets diverted into something less car shaped and more kitchen shaped.


Title: Re: B20 Aurelia purchase
Post by: the.cern on 29 January, 2014, 05:57:57 PM
I will continue to keep a keen eye out but may well get a 356 in the meantime.  I could wait a long time for an Aurelia and am keen to replace the Fanalone before the cash gets diverted into something less car shaped and more kitchen shaped.

Jonathan, that, in my experience, is a very real and present danger!!!! Invest in a 356 by all means, but never lose the wish for an Aurelia!!!!  Good luck.

                                    Andy


Title: Re: B20 Aurelia purchase
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 29 January, 2014, 05:59:15 PM

Just a sly drool...

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C454599

Interesting to see how many are advertised.

David
Yet another case of the owner not giving an asking price,I don't know why people bother to advertise, are they too shy to say what they want for it? seems to be quite a proliferation of this practice lately, looking in 'Classic Car Weekly' last week there's at least 30 cars advertised without the asking price, seems to be mostly Dealers with mainly email addresses followed by the phone number, why do they think anyone would want to bother without even a ball park figure to go on, I certainly wouldn't.
Brian
8227 8)
I can understand why the seller of a car, especially at the upper end of the market does not want to publicise the price they want for their car to all and sundry, I can equally understand why someone buying such a car does not want everyone to know what they have paid for it. Those that are really interested will always ask, the rest are just curious!


Title: Re: B20 Aurelia purchase
Post by: neil-yaj396 on 30 January, 2014, 07:18:53 AM

Just a sly drool...

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C454599

Interesting to see how many are advertised.

David
Yet another case of the owner not giving an asking price,I don't know why people bother to advertise, are they too shy to say what they want for it? seems to be quite a proliferation of this practice lately, looking in 'Classic Car Weekly' last week there's at least 30 cars advertised without the asking price, seems to be mostly Dealers with mainly email addresses followed by the phone number, why do they think anyone would want to bother without even a ball park figure to go on, I certainly wouldn't.
Brian
8227 8)
I can understand why the seller of a car, especially at the upper end of the market does not want to publicise the price they want for their car to all and sundry, I can equally understand why someone buying such a car does not want everyone to know what they have paid for it. Those that are really interested will always ask, the rest are just curious!

I think people's problem (especially with dealers) is the perception that they will rack up the price on assessment of the potential customer, rather than quoting a genuine valuation?