Lancia Motor Club

Model Technical and Interest => Appia => Topic started by: simonandjuliet on 05 June, 2013, 08:53:15 PM



Title: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 05 June, 2013, 08:53:15 PM
As many of you already know, I became the proud owner of a beautiful Appia furgoncino C80 S earlier this year and said beast, because she is a beast, arrived last week.

Previous owners Alan and Claire Wesson delivered her last Thursday.

She is complete , albeit in pieces (all the important furgoncino bits are there including the 5 speed 'box , but I am sure I will have to raid the Appia consortium for one or two other bits ....)

I have never owned an Appia before, although I did a lot of work on a Zagato when I was a teenager, but I think we can discount that since it was some time ago ..... Consequently, the arrival of the body and so many boxes has been thought provoking, more of that later !

Briefly, the furgoncino is a 1959 car, LHD hence the C 80 S I presume. She has done 59,000 kms and has the original Italian log book to back this up. Some time in the early 60's she blew a head gasket and was laid up for 40 years in a field in Aosta, before being discovered by Alan in the early noughties.

Despite 40 years of fresh air, she is in amazingly sound condition. Some bodywork has been done, particularly around the back quarters, under the "bumper" and a bit behind the front wheel arches, but amazingly the floors and sills are all there and perfect - NO welding to do ...... The doors and bonnet are aluminium and are not showing any oxidation, the interior is complete and undamaged, rear doors are perfect .......

I am sure to find some horrors, but I'm still in the honeymoon period

So what to do ?

I cannot be as laid back as David L. and say it will take as long as it takes - I quite like targets (previous roles in sales and marketing probably account for that !) and need goals ..... so I have been wandering in and out of the garage, been sitting on my garage chair - removed from the Aprilia bay and placed in front of the furgoncino and stayed awake at night trying to work out how to tackle the project !

I still don't have the answers or indeed a plan, but at least I am planning a plan ! The most obvious thing is that this is a 'conservation' project, not a 'restoration' project, although I realise these boundaries can be blurred - but for example, I am not intending to do anything with the inside of the car - just dismantle, clean and refit. No paint, just scratches ....

Here goes .......










Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 07 June, 2013, 06:53:55 AM
A few bits started this week

Everything removed from boxes and catalogued. Interior removed, cleaned, repaired and stored. The only damage was a broken spring on the driver's side of the seat which ripped the cloth underneath. Both repaired . Also I had to retack the piping to the door panels. The panels are slightly water damaged, easy to change if I am not happy with the fit later on. But as I said above, I want to keep as much original as possible even if it is not perfect

Seats have come up really well after a good scrubbing and reconditioning

Now tucked up nice and warm in the house !

ps can anyone read the seat tag ? I have enhanced it but cannot read the script .....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 08 June, 2013, 05:32:14 PM
The next thing I want to do is have a rolling chassis that I can push in and out of the garage, move between bays etc, so to that end I want a car with steering ! Not absolutely necessary, I know, but it's easier when you are pushing on your own....

Also I don't want to redo things so I want to remove, clean/repair and refit only once so I have completely dismantled the rest of the engine bay and dashboard along with the pedal mechanism. The idea being that I prepare and paint the engine bay before refitting the steering column, but that means preparing the column change mechanism, and while I'm at it the pedals, master cylindre etc ....

This plan of action was formed whilst stripping the LH wheelarch and LHS floors and it seemed a good idea at the time !

Incidentally , they have all come up nicely and the floors are perfect and need no welding which is a relief

The column change linkage is a work of art and cleaned up pretty well. I have taken a touch of slack out of the ball joint at the bottom of the column and also the ball joint which forms part of the final link to the 'box. However I have taken care not to overtighten them, because I am sure it could cause too much sticktion and make a horrid gearchange ! Everything else has a smear of grease and already I can tell the action is smoother

The pedal system is typical Lancia over engineering, magnificent castings, bronzes bushes with helicoidal greasing channels and all built to last. Good job really because the greasing tube was empty and it was covered in road grime which took several hours to clean prior to painting ....

Need to finish prep'ing the engine bay so it can be painted - maybe some time next week





Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 08 June, 2013, 05:33:43 PM
More photos


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 08 June, 2013, 09:30:42 PM

What are you using to strip, and what are you using for paint?

David


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: fay66 on 08 June, 2013, 11:36:31 PM
Simon, just as well you took photos of how it was before you took apart the gearchange mechanism! looks really great though.

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 09 June, 2013, 07:14:24 AM
Brian, my camera is as much part of my toolkit as a 14 mm spanner ! The only downside is the size of the screen when you are putting it all back together - super-tolerant wife will not let me use her iPad ....

The gearchange mechanism is amazing and frightening at the same time. I must have taken 20 photos from various angles.

David, re cleaning. I have an armory of products!

The wheel arches and floors had any loose underseal removed with a scraper, the more resilient with a heat gun and scraper and then a run over with a 2 inch Roloc-type stripping disk on the airdrill (brilliant on anything rusty) before final wiping down with white spirit and a final clean with acetone before painting

For cleaning bits I use a similar range of attack starting with a degreaser (diesel/paraffin via white spirit to acetone ) and scraper, then rubbing down with the stripping disks or delicate things with wire wool. Final degrease with acetone .

The alloy castings get a coat of acid etch primer before topcoat or a coat of "rustol" if they are being left bare

The topcoat is my new favourite, a satin black, spray acrylic which covers and dries quickly, leaving a very original looking finish , which has proved very resistant to hot water, oil, petrol, abrasion etc when used on the Aprilia. The one I have been using is made by Autoglym. I used to use Hammerite Satin black (still do where I have to use a brush) but I find the new one much more user-friendly and you can reassemble much sooner

Probably a longer answer than you wanted , so just choose the interesting bits !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 09 June, 2013, 07:26:40 AM
Thats a useful list and breakdown of what you use and where, cheers, will use some of those products


P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: the.cern on 09 June, 2013, 08:29:14 AM
Simon, I think you have a gem there and you are exactly the right person to take it on.

The photos of the gear linkage are a revelation, I have been struggling with that area as i pursue the awful noise with my berlina. It was so helpful to see the linkage, both in place and stripped, as, with the engine in place, all I could get were glimpses of different parts, but could not get the whole picture. Do watch out for the bushes in the yoke adjacent to the bell housing, in my car both slipped out very readily.

As for the list of cleaning products and equipment, very comprehensive and some good tips, thank you.

Good luck with everything and please continue to keep us posted.

                                        Andy


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 09 June, 2013, 09:55:19 AM

Simon,

Is this the paint?

http://www.autoglymprofessional.com/product-proddetail.asp?v06VQ=LE&Range=3

I'm assuming this is the sort of stripping disk you mean:

http://www.frost.co.uk/drill-stripping-disc.html

A bit more gentle than the twist knot wire brush I like...

http://www.frost.co.uk/cup-brush-65dia-1-50-for-single-hand-grinders.html

I need a new flat one, the cup is still going strong.

David


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: the.cern on 09 June, 2013, 10:07:12 AM
David, I much prefer the stripping discs to the twisted knot wire brushes. The former are faster, quierer and much more forgiving when you snag an edge. I use them in ana ngle grinder and find them superb. Jim has recently been stripping some large areas and starts of with a heat gun and a scraper to get rid of the bulk and then finishes off with the disc. The advantage of the heatgun/scraper method is that it is quicker for thicker paint layers, quieter and makes no dust !!!! It really is a matter of try everything and see what suits the particular area on which you are working.

Whichever method is used there is a huge satisfaction in seeing the polished base metal appear out from under the dirt, paint and filler. Very therapeutic!!

                                              Andy


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 09 June, 2013, 10:22:00 AM
Spot on with the paint

The stripping disks I use are more like this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290774403351?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290774403351?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649)  

because I can flip between different heads quickly and the airdrill is small and flexible and can be made to run slowly enabling you to hold something and clean it safely at the same time .....Very staged shot, but it shows what I mean !
You can see the other heads - grinding disks, scotchbrite disks for polishing and a thing that looks like the underside of "pied de mouton" mushrooms which is a more intensive rust remover.

I was introduced to this system by Dog who is a SMART repair specialist, I'm sure the manufacturers didn't see it being used to clean up brake pedals !

The twist metal things I find can be quite harsh and I usually reserve them for the very worst cases ......


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 09 June, 2013, 04:21:32 PM

Wire brushes you "save for the very worst cases".  Welcome to my world...  I'm not sure if I need to paint it or plaster on boat antifoul.

Andrew - I'm sure I've got some of those disks...somewhere...maybe a case of quicker to buy more than find them :(   I'm being VERY careful not to snag edges for fear of zipping the car apart.  For all I got it home in one bit there's less and less metal there day by day.

Simon - chance of an even more staged shot of the complete range of gear?  Does that paint go straight onto bare metal?

David


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: fay66 on 09 June, 2013, 04:34:49 PM
Simon,
Never too much information it's all interesting, keep it coming please!

Brian
8227 :(


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 10 June, 2013, 05:23:51 PM
Picture of the range of bits I use, although currently looking for some small polishing heads in the same range.

I use the paint with or without primer depending on the piece to be painted, if it is just being used to brighten something up that is fairly sound, I don't use a primer, but anything bare, I tend to. But the acid etch primer is in a spray as well, so a thin coat, dry with a low pressure gun and you can topcoat in no time !

A couple of pictures of the completed pedal assembly. As you can see, the bronze bush is toothed and is a tight fit in the aluminium casting. The brake pedal arm is first slotted over the bush , then it is then gently pressed into the casting by hand. Once in place you slide in the central rod ,before rotating the bush in the casting. There is is a bolt on the side that locates a cutout on the bush, so this needs to be carefully lined up before you tighten the bolt !

The clutch arm just bolts in place , there being a groove in the rod to position it. The actuator arm that connects to the clutch release arm at the other end also has a groove to position it. This actuator arm has a silent block in it which on mine is cream-crackered and needs replacing. Andy, have you checked yours - I'm sure mine would have rattled, because it was metal on metal ?

ps thanks for your comments about the brass bushes, I made sure they were not loose !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 11 June, 2013, 04:25:20 PM
Before I commit a heinous crime, can someone confirm that this beautifully polished steering box SHOULD be black. I can just find vestiges of black paint .....

ps I don't think these are specific to furgoncini (!) but it is stamped C80S and then the number


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 11 June, 2013, 06:07:48 PM

If you are looking for something to polish with this is the fattest catalogue of that sort of stuff I know:

http://www.abrasivesplus.com/

These are new to me - got to love a "grittyflex" for the name alone:

http://www.abrasivesplus.com/dept/brushes-accessories-both-for-hand-drill-operation_d0133.htm

"Especially suitable for removing oxide films from all kinds of metals".  I've got a bit of that to do...

The other thought for an abrasives fetishist is this one:

http://www.kemet.co.uk/

Which is where I got this from:

http://www.kemet.co.uk/pdf/Sanderhead2006.pdf

David


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 11 June, 2013, 06:12:25 PM
I would say it should be satin black.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 11 June, 2013, 06:19:05 PM
David

I feel an "I Spy" book of abrasives coming on ....

Juliet already thinks that I am a long way along the "bonkers"ometer, I am sure that if I subscribed to your suggested websites I would advance several notches !

I won't tell you you where she thinks you are on the "bonkers"ometer !!!!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 11 June, 2013, 06:20:25 PM
Thanks Ade


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: chriswgawne on 11 June, 2013, 06:44:12 PM
Ade is right - it should be satin black.
If I were you I would disassemble the steering box to check that the needle rollers are not pitted and also to replace the oil seal. I imagine the bearings will be OK but worth checking them as well.
I have rebuilt several B20 steering boxes of similar design and in roughly 50% of cases the needle rollers have been pitted needing replacement..
If the worm and screw are worn then there is the possibility of rotating the inner bush to take up slack - very effective in most cases of worn boxes.
So definitely worth a closer look inside.
Chris


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 11 June, 2013, 07:11:02 PM
Chris
When you say 'oil seal' do you mean the one where the steering column joins or the bottom seal - or both ?
 


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 12 June, 2013, 05:31:44 PM
A few minutes fettling after work this evening - and taking Chris' advice, I took the top off the steering box. I was expecting it to be like an Aprilia, but it is completely different. Instead of a segment of teeth, there is a whole circle. As far as I can see, it doesn't matter where you are on the circle, so long as the steering column and drop arm are in the right position relative to one another. We'll see when I fit it !

The condition of the box was so good, clean oil, no tight spots or anything ,so,  I have decided to leave it alone and will just replace the output seal (ordered from Omicron so hopefully will be here soon) and have made a new gasket. Coat of paint and soon be ready to fit .... I am sure the nuts and filler cap would have been black originally, but allow me a touch of individuality .....

The steering box appears to be B10 since the castings say "B10" ! - but it is overstamped with C80 S as mentioned above. Don has informed me that the front axle is B24 with B10 brakes and wheels, so they are a bit of a "parts box" car !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 18 June, 2013, 09:45:08 PM
Frustrating day at work today, so went to the garage for some R&R

Bits arrived yesterday for the steering box, so that is back together, just need to find the right oil to refill it.

Also this evening tried a bit of an experiment to see if it is possible to retain the original transfers whilst repainting the rusty/tired part . Took the top off the regulator , carefully masked the transfer, without actually touching it. Done by folding masking tape on itself leaving a 1 mm wide strip of sticky and then sticking that just outside the transfer (if that makes sense). Clean and paint the rest and there we go !

Was it worth it, or should I have painted the whole thing or left alone and just cleaned it up ? Well I suspect we will all have an opinion on that one !

The regulator transfer was low risk, being quite badly scuffed already but I think the method may well work on other bits like the air filter which still has the instructions on it

The bonnet catch (before and after) shows how the base plate had been designed for LHD and RHD cars. A tiny detail !



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 19 June, 2013, 01:21:50 AM
Penrite steering box lube is best, rather than oil.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 19 June, 2013, 08:20:04 AM

Lovely job keeping the transfers...inspiring...

David


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 19 June, 2013, 06:07:25 PM
Thanks Ade
We have a Penrite distributor the other side of Beziers, so a visit is on the cards ....

David, glad you approve, it was a bit of a fankle but I think it was worth it. The suspension oiler has cleaned up nicely and just has a few chips, so I'm not going to paint that at all

This evening's fettling was to renovate the battery cover and tray. The cover was surprisingly rusty, I suspect it had been taken off to remove the battery and then left in a damp corner ! The rubbers were all ok; removed, cleaned and re-glued ( I use a rubber and vinyl cleaner made by Autoglym) once the cover had been repainted.

The battery sits on a slider to assist removal, however the strap has rotted so will need to be replaced

Just placed a big paint order in the UK , so waiting for that to arrive. Filler primers are not as good here, zinc primer impossible to find. Etch primer an enigma and as for any of the above at a sensible price ........



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 19 June, 2013, 10:22:01 PM
This stuff?

http://www.autoglymprofessional.com/product-proddetail.asp?v06VQ=HE


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 20 June, 2013, 06:01:22 AM
That's it - with rubber strips and things , I massage it in ..... makes tyre walls look nice too


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 22 June, 2013, 08:53:44 AM
Last night's efforts !

Not sure yet where all the bits go , but they will look nice when they are there !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: St Volumex on 22 June, 2013, 09:01:14 AM
Last night's efforts !

Not sure yet where all the bits go , but they will look nice when they are there !

Two are the louvred splash plates which fit on either side of the engine - studs go through the front cross member. (Wished I had a correct set for my coupé!  ::)  )


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 23 June, 2013, 01:37:27 PM
Don't suppose you'd like a back up Furgoncino or maybe start a small fleet....;)


http://www.autoscout24.it/Details.aspx?id=234364593&cd=635074880030000000&asrc=st|fs

P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 23 June, 2013, 07:14:10 PM
Guy, i am sure you could recreate a set ....

Frank, the word "divorce" springs to mind

Couple of hours this morning cleaning up the air vents. They were pretty dirty but not rusty, so I plan to keep them as they are, just touch up the odd chip. The RHS vent is painted body colour on top and not just overspray. The rubber pipes I wire brushed before a coat of the rubber/vinyl cleaner to protect them. The rest is protected with a resin polish (same as bodywork). Indeed I give pretty much everything a coat of the resin polish once it is clean, makes it easier for next time !

The dash is cleaning up nicely, but the fabric inside the glove box has suffered so will need to be replaced. Fortunately the fabric is nigh on identical to the Aprilia fabric I bought .....

This evening we took the Aprilia for a drive to the opening of a new wine shop a couple of villages away, very french - poetry reading, live music and excellent "snacks" , wine wasn't bad either !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: St Volumex on 23 June, 2013, 09:12:00 PM
Guy, i am sure you could recreate a set ....


True, I have already begun, but would rather spend my 'spare' time reading poetry, listening to music, and enjoying the wine instead!  ;D


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 01 July, 2013, 06:13:57 PM
Guy - fair comment !

Mixed week , this week. Started on the bodywork, did a bit more prep on the engine bay and dismantled a few more bits.

The bodywork has been the most frustrating, Dog and I tried to get the front wing to fit nicely - it was too proud where it lined up with the bottom corner of the door. The door fits perfectly so did not want to touch that and there had already been a repair to the wing, so that was the obvious place to start. However we couldn't redress the wing because although the repair was strong, the back edge it was welded to was just too thin and brittle to be able to shape. So we wasted several hours and I finally decided to take a different approach - I "phoned a friend" !

Chugga has agreed to lend his wing to Bill Lewis , who in turn has agreed to make the back 3 inches of the wing . Hopefully, once welded in place we can sort the fit !

Good news is that the rest of the sill is perfect, I have rubbed it all down, along with the floor join underneath and not a spot of rust. You can still see the spot welds for the inner membrane. I had to remove the rear brake pipe and live cable from the battery to get at it properly. Whilst at it I took off the handbrake mechanism and gave it a fettle ....

Finally, the bottom, sill bolt holding the wing on had sheared, so that has been drilled out and re-tapped


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 01 July, 2013, 07:01:06 PM
Great work Simon, nice to have a friend like James, onwards and upwards!

P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 01 July, 2013, 07:11:11 PM
PS why the long hex on the forward bolt ? I cannot see why ....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 12 July, 2013, 08:17:35 PM
Bit of a hiatus due to work and family commitments ( school hols started on the 5th July and M. is back on the 5th Sept ......)

Dog has been doing a bit of archaeology - sanding down looking for the original lines. There is a very subtle flat section just above the curve of the sill that had been lost during previous repairs. It was visible below the door so we followed it back to the rear wing. Photos don't really show it but you can definitely feel it . I think this must have been a panel join because there is a lot of lead about

You can also see some other vertical panel joins just behind the inset panel.

Once the wing was off I have been able to clean up the inner wheel arch, all sound, just some surface rust where the original underseal was too thin ........

It was 36 degrees here today, so using a heat gun and scraper was probably not the most sensible thing to do. Oh well !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 17 July, 2013, 08:33:10 PM
Moving around the bodywork, working on the detail. Dog spent a lot of time today getting the recesses for the rear lights right, redressing the rear door so that the door handles sit flush (I think someone must have tried to lift the door handle instead of turning it !) and making the "bumper" fit.

The bumper is just a piece of aluminium section that is bolted to the body , pretty but even more useless than an Aprilia bumper ! More like a rubbing strake on a boat

Nearside (UK !) is ready, rear panels not far off and plans to to the O/S next week - hopefully primer at the end of next week .....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 19 July, 2013, 08:57:20 PM
Perfect painting day, so we put a coat of etch primer on the side that we have done in order to 1) protect the bare metal 2) highlight any major imperfections.

Sounds like the UK has had plenty of perfect spraying days recently (..... David W ?)

I don't have enough space to do the whole body in one go, so we are doing sections at a time. Preparing them, protecting them and then moving the car around to do the next bit. Once the first fix has been done then we can do a filler/primer over the whole car in one go

First picture reminds me of the cars you used to see on the M6/M42 when they drove round trying to hide the identity of a new model !

Second is 'Marvin' checking we are doing it right

3rd and 4th Dog spraying - 4th picture I not sure what he is spraying with ......

Final one ,  just before we push her back into the garage for the weekend !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 20 July, 2013, 07:26:51 AM
Motoring along very rapidly.........magnificent.


P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 24 July, 2013, 08:39:54 PM
Thanks Frank - seems to be taking an age at the moment, but trying to do something each week ......

Today's fettling was the propshaft and handbrake cables. The propshaft has never been removed - you can tell because the threads are still clean, you remove the split pin, crack the nut and it is finger tight (sorry David L, I suspect the Flavia is not so forthcoming).

The remainder of the handbrake pivots and mountings have been removed and cleaned. The guides are brass, I presume to self-lubricate and prevent seizing. The aluminium wheel appears to have been polished originally and the frame that goes around it looks to have a silver paint on it - so no painting required here !

The prop has various markings on it. It has C10 casting marks on the spiders, but a C80 stamp and number as well. These marks are found on the gearbox end and there is a K mark at the diff end. I have not spotted a corresponding K mark on the diff spider yet, but suspect there is something. In any case, I have added my own marks to ensure it goes back in the same place ....

Another fiddle was the back door handle which had been sheared. I think that someone must have tried to open/break in the back door because the square shaft had been snapped and the back door mounting distorted. Dog has sorted out the door panel so it left me to remake the shaft. I drilled and tapped the old handle and new square section, screwed them together and then welded them up. All fits nicely now.

The other handle has a cross cut and threaded hole to take a tapered screw, presumably to make it tight in the square hole, but I do not know if this handle should have this as well ........ answers on a postcard to .....

Finally, does anyone have an idea as to how I can recreate the woven, fabric cable cover for the +ve lead ? It has rotted and cannot be preserved.

ps New pipe flaring tool, bending pliers and 1/4" pipe arrived today, so pipework here we come ........


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 24 July, 2013, 10:41:12 PM

One thought is to preserve that cable covering under transparent heat shrink.

David


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: St Volumex on 25 July, 2013, 04:01:28 AM
Finally, does anyone have an idea as to how I can recreate the woven, fabric cable cover for the +ve lead ? It has rotted and cannot be preserved.


Cotton-reel knitting?  ;D (I've been wondering about this myself for some time...  ::) )


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 25 July, 2013, 06:09:37 AM
Photos added - apparently the server was full ! Thanks Steve


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 25 July, 2013, 03:10:30 PM

Could you find a better bit of cable?   Could you preserve some of it and wrap with something else for the missing section?  Perhaps that type of coarse woven fabric ribbon I think of as the fastening in PE shorts with a bit of whipping cord at the changes.  Got a haberdashers or a boat chandler for a rummage?

As for "finger tight once cracked" the Flavia fuel filler pipe to tank nut was towards that, and all the more satisfying for its size and the prior quest for a specialist spanner.

David


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 25 July, 2013, 03:54:51 PM
Cotton braided battery cable:

http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/72/category/12
http://www.completeautomobilist.com/products/801-battery-lead-cotton-braid-160-ampere
http://www.vintagemotorspares.com/phdi/p1.nsf/supppages/hodge?opendocument&part=3

I can't really tell the texture you're after from the photos.  The iron's flex provided some inspiration that led to these:

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/cable-sleeves/7720300/
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/cable-sleeves/0480500/

Those might take a fabric paint if not a dye.

David


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 25 July, 2013, 04:03:10 PM
David....you are a deep ....deep well of useful and fascinating info.....great!


P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 25 July, 2013, 04:05:48 PM

 "google"  ;D


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 25 July, 2013, 04:07:22 PM
....nnnooooooooooooo....you have to sorta know what your looking for in first place....otherwise 8.5 million returned links!


P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 25 July, 2013, 04:55:40 PM

It's not THAT hard...

Something on my mind to look for was the type of "fuel hose clamp" on the Flavia.  Into Google Images.  Scroll down and bingo:

http://racebikebitz.com/Self-clamping-band-clamps-double-wire-spring-clips-fuel-air/mikalor-double-wire-self-clamping-hose-clips

"spring hose clamp" gives me:

http://www.hcl-clamping.co.uk/Double-Wire-Hose-Clamp-Spring-P8

"mikalor" in ebay takes me to:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MIKALOR-Double-Wire-Spring-Band-Type-Fuel-Hose-Clips-Self-Clamping-Wire-Clamp-/161018059347?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item257d6c9a53

David


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 25 July, 2013, 04:57:31 PM
I know...I know.....but your real name isn't Cumberbatch by any chance??!!


;)


P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: fay66 on 25 July, 2013, 09:54:06 PM

It's not THAT hard...

Something on my mind to look for was the type of "fuel hose clamp" on the Flavia.  Into Google Images.  Scroll down and bingo:

http://racebikebitz.com/Self-clamping-band-clamps-double-wire-spring-clips-fuel-air/mikalor-double-wire-self-clamping-hose-clips

"spring hose clamp" gives me:

http://www.hcl-clamping.co.uk/Double-Wire-Hose-Clamp-Spring-P8

"mikalor" in ebay takes me to:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MIKALOR-Double-Wire-Spring-Band-Type-Fuel-Hose-Clips-Self-Clamping-Wire-Clamp-/161018059347?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item257d6c9a53

David
Horrible things and a real pain to apply or remove without the correct tool !

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 25 July, 2013, 10:12:49 PM

I liked them.  All I used was a pair of pliers like these:

http://www.steritool.com/images/product/10115.jpg

David


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: fay66 on 26 July, 2013, 11:43:25 AM

I liked them.  All I used was a pair of pliers like these:

http://www.steritool.com/images/product/10115.jpg

David
Pliers have a habit of slipping on these, you need a pair of pliers with two recesses.

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 26 July, 2013, 01:14:18 PM

Maybe its a problem with the shiny ones not the gummy old rusty versions I have :) 

David


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 27 July, 2013, 07:47:40 AM
Thanks David, super-sleuth, the only problem is that the cable seems only to be available in black. The original is more 'sack-cloth', so I am going to investigate the rugby shorts waist tie and then sew it into a tube and turn it inside out ..... wish me luck !

This week we have started on the other side, removing the redlead and as much of the filler as possible, so we can see what lies beneath. The front wing was a pleasant surprise. The bottom had been welded/braized but is good and solid. The line had been lost along the sill and I was worried when Dog asked for a bolster chisel ........

Because the metal is so solid, he has been able to work his magic and has remade the line without the need for thick filler, just a skim to make it smooth. The rest of the wing is excellent, a couple of small dings to knock out and the old repeater hole to weld up. Really happy with the panel fit

Coat of primer next week ???


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 10 August, 2013, 01:41:25 PM
No progress here, just out of hospital after 2 weeks !

Appendicitis/peritonitis/abscess means I will be off my feet for a while yet so I am going to have to find a lightweight fiddly job to do .......

Not allowed to drive the Apriliia either  :(


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 10 August, 2013, 05:18:05 PM
Sorry to hear that Simon...mend soon!

P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: rogerelias on 10 August, 2013, 05:40:38 PM
Yep take it easy.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: the.cern on 10 August, 2013, 10:19:54 PM
That sounds rather tough !!!  Seems they got to the problem in time, but only just.

Take care and a chance to put in some forward research to complete the furgoncino ................ and also have a look for the next project as the rate at which you are tackling things means you you will have time on your hands in the not too distant future!!!!

Best wishes,

           Andy 


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: fay66 on 10 August, 2013, 11:19:15 PM
Simon,
you don't believe in doing things by half! get well soon.

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: St Volumex on 11 August, 2013, 06:34:21 AM
No progress here, just out of hospital after 2 weeks !

Appendicitis/peritonitis/abscess means I will be off my feet for a while yet so I am going to have to find a lightweight fiddly job to do .......

Not allowed to drive the Apriliia either  :(

Sorry to hear that - get well soon!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: chriswgawne on 11 August, 2013, 07:02:37 AM
And most importantly your grape harvest must be near - rotten timing but at least its sorted. Your health is the main thing. My neighbour in Italy bust his left ankle badly and everyone around mucked in and helped with the various tasks he was unable to do - mind you he did manage to jury rig the clutch pedals on all his tractors with long levers which meant he could operate it with his left hand!! Highly illegal but effective.
Chris


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: ColinMarr on 12 August, 2013, 08:47:18 AM
Simon, I have only just caught up with this. Let me also offer you commiserations. Might you be allowed to enjoy sampling last year's vintage to help get you through?

Colin


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 12 August, 2013, 02:20:08 PM
Thanks everyone,

Not allowed to drink for another couple of weeks (metronidazol causes severe reactions with alcohol) but I can surf the net ! - I found a new set of headlight bulb holders for the Aprilia .......

Due to inclement weather this year the vendanges are at least 2 weeks late , so hopefully I will be up and running in time (mid Sept)

I can also do some homework on the engine bay before I start putting it back together and also think about making the mounting bolts for the back bumper - nice lightweight job !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 02 September, 2013, 06:42:25 PM
A couple of photos to show what Dog was up to whilst I was off my feet. He has made  a lovely job of redefining the line along the sill.

The headlamp surround has also been pulled out to get the rim to fit properly as well as welding in a small disk to fill in the non original wing repeaters.

Hopefully I can start to do a few bits this week - unfortunately no joy on the request for LHD engine bay photos.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: chugga boom on 02 September, 2013, 07:43:25 PM
looking good  ;)


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 13 September, 2013, 08:36:29 PM
A la recherche de la teinte perdue ......

I have been trying to work out the colour scheme for the furgoncino. They were all two-tone, either greys or greens. Unfortunately the colours and codes suggested by the Appia club in Italy appear to be incorrect for the "green" cars. I cannot find a match for one of the references and apparently "Verde Ardea " is not a true colour according to another source.

Photos taken around 2001 show the colour scheme that I want to find

Consequently, I am trying to match the original colours on the car. The darker green should not be too difficult since there is enough to polish and spectrograph, but the lighter green (cream ?) is proving more troublesome .....

Most of the lower body (lighter green) had been sanded, filled and primed by Alan, so the original colour was no longer visible, however today we prepared one of the doors and sanded through several layers of paint and MAY have found the original lighter green. It appears that the whole body was painted in the lighter colour and then the darker colour overlaid , following a second, darker primer. Further investigation on the roof may help us

I also cleaned the passenger side floor prior to painting, fortunately nothing more than surface rust under the felt

Rear wings and doors prep'ed and etched ready for undercoat - hopefully next week

 


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 14 September, 2013, 07:46:19 AM
Here's a picture of one in the green colour scheme, and slightly off topic one that is for sale in the U.K.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 14 September, 2013, 08:13:16 AM
Thanks Ade

Would love the paint codes for the green car .....

Bottom car should tempt someone, they are seriously pretty in the flesh, photos just don't do them justice !



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 14 September, 2013, 10:31:25 AM
Great initial article in VL today. Thank you Simon!!!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 17 September, 2013, 04:28:30 PM
Got my copy of VL today, wasn't expecting such an Appia spread, Jack used full sized photos ! Hopefully will pen a second part once there's more to tell .....

Today we 2-pack primed the sides, rear wings, rear doors, front doors and 1 front wing. Just the roof, bonnet and other front wing to prep and paint.
Haven't posted any photos because it looks just like the etch primer !

I took the rest of the underseal off the sills and we have cleaned up all the door shuts so that we can join the paint behind the trim and rubbers - It took us a while to mask up the car because I hate overspray and I am not touching the interior - boot or cabin.

Next job is the roof, but that may have to wait until vendanges are over

Picture is of a roof rack I would like to copy ......


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 19 September, 2013, 05:39:04 PM
I had a couple of hours this afternoon and since I am still in pursuit of the paint colours, I polished up the partition between the cabin and boot.

I hope to take this to a friendly bodyshop and a spectroanalysis on it. Since it has spent its life in the shade it should be pretty close to the original. Whilst at it I started cleaning up the bars and the rubber seal

The first photo shows the rubber around the partition as "before and after". LHS is cleaned if you can't tell ! The bar on the left shows how they will look once polished up. They are quite tarnished so first course of action was to clean them up with 000 wire wool, then metal polish and then a coat of resin polish to protect them .

The next couple of photos show the body stamps - one on the partition (bottom right on above photo), the other above the radiator at the front. I don't know how many of the panels were stamped , but I can keep a look out.

Next thing is to find the correct Philips type self tappers because some are missing. They are countersunk and domed

Finally, I couldn't resist the carrot picture - I thought I'd share it with you before it went in the pot ........


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 19 September, 2013, 06:08:51 PM

Does Autoglym regular resin polish stop ali tarnishing?

David


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 19 September, 2013, 06:34:19 PM
I find it does. I tend to put it on quite thick and leave it to dry fully before polishing.

I may be wrong but, I think it works .....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: fay66 on 19 September, 2013, 11:55:58 PM
Simon,
Do you have a photo of the screws your looking for as the heads sound similar to Fulvia screws, if so I'll look in the stock of odds and sods that I inherited from Mike Matthews about 15 years ago and see if I can help.

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 20 September, 2013, 07:20:11 AM
Thanks Brian

Photos and dimensions below - I would be looking for about 30 in all to do the rear doors as well


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 20 September, 2013, 07:47:41 AM
They look chrome plated. I have used ebay in the past to get domed c/s self tappers, but NOS is best....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 20 September, 2013, 07:58:12 AM
Thanks Tim
They are chromed and looking through eBay I found lots of pozi , but very few philips of the correct shape. There is someone supplying the right shape and nearly the right size for Fender guitars ! So it should be poss.

As you say, older slightly tarnished ones would be best



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: fay66 on 20 September, 2013, 05:21:29 PM
Simon,
Do you have a photo of the screws your looking for as the heads sound similar to Fulvia screws, if so I'll look in the stock of odds and sods that I inherited from Mike Matthews about 15 years ago and see if I can help.

Brian
8227 8)

Sorry Simon,
I searched and found what I have, but the majority are set screws wiith the same head, but in no better condition than yours. :'(

Brian
8227
 8)



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: chugga boom on 20 September, 2013, 07:20:09 PM
pretty sure Wurth do stainless steel Philips screws  ???


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 20 September, 2013, 08:21:38 PM
Thanks James, will have a look

Re paint colours - Very good news, they were there all the time ! Having cleaned up the partition with a view to using it as a reference for new paint, I then compared it to the colour on the roof.

The roof is so faded it looked the same, but then I compared it to scuttle around the engine bay. It looked a bit different so I polished up the scuttle for a better look and guess what - different colour, so I do have both ! There are 2 greens, but not that different, especially when they are faded, dirty and not next to one another !!!

I had assumed that the interior colour and the roof were the same darker green and we had "lost" the lighter colour, but, not at all ......

That means that the interior and the boot are the lighter colour and not the darker one as I first thought, and the only dark bits are the roof, bonnet, door tops and scuttle under the bonnet. Now need to check the underbonnet colour to see which it is, light or dark ?

Next thing I did was polish up the glove compartment lid so I could put them side by side properly and take a couple of pictures. I don't have a loose panel with the darker colour, so I will have to load the van onto a trailer and take her to a friendly paintshop for the spectro - oh well .....

Final picture shows the partition ready to prevent "Fido" joining us in the front !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 21 September, 2013, 10:32:19 PM

There are portable ones now - for example:

http://www.xrite.com/ma98-portable-spectrophotometer


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 09 October, 2013, 06:08:10 AM
I spent an age cleaning up the engine bay and inner wheel arch. Dog masked it all up and did a coat of Zinc primer yesterday.

It has highlighted a couple of small areas that I missed so small tidy up, tiger seal around the joints and ready for the satin black (engine bay) and underseal (wheel arches)

Start on the roof today?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 09 October, 2013, 10:51:45 AM

This stuff?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tiger-Seal-TIG-NB-Polyurethane/dp/B002SQY852/ref=sr_1_1/277-6061633-8023054?ie=UTF8&qid=1381315825&sr=8-1&keywords=tiger+glue


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 09 October, 2013, 11:41:38 AM
The very same ......

The zinc primer was another UPOL product, Isopon Zinc 182. Sprayed straight from the tin (can dilute by 10%). Takes a while to dry fully but sands nicely



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 17 October, 2013, 03:54:53 PM
The engine bay was painted today and looks very good - still a bit shiny even though it is a satin black that we used. I am hoping it will calm down a bit once it is fully cured (used 2pack) . If not there are a couple of things we can do to make it look a bit more "used" !!!

Have kept a couple of the original runs and imperfections .....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: St Volumex on 17 October, 2013, 05:45:24 PM
Simon, your thread is one that keeps on giving & never disappoints!  ;D

Don' worry about the gloss - a few times around the block and it will look quite normal.  ;)


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: westernlancia on 22 October, 2013, 07:09:04 AM
Nice to see my baby is in good hands - this is the first time I have been able to bring myself to look at the thread, because I have missed the van so much. I can confirm that, having had a skim-read through, everything Simon has done has been correct. If I had seen the query about the steering box earlier I could also have confirmed that it was satin black - the reason it was bare ally is because Mick (the guy who used to work for me rebuilding Lotuses and Lancia engines) is a genius, and he has this magic jollop for cleaning ally that brings it up better than new. He had cleaned the steering box (in 2004!) and the jollop is so effective that it had removed every trace of the old paint. But I would have painted it myself (although I did think it looked pretty good in ally!), so Simon did the right thing. I was also unsurprised to find that it had no discernible wear - the van had only done 39000 miles, and virtually all the mechanical parts I had removed from it were in 'as-new' condition! As Simon says, it is a fettler's dream - I am just sad that it wasn't this fettler that got to do it (but I've got plenty of other things to keep me busy...).


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: westernlancia on 22 October, 2013, 07:10:38 AM

This stuff?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tiger-Seal-TIG-NB-Polyurethane/dp/B002SQY852/ref=sr_1_1/277-6061633-8023054?ie=UTF8&qid=1381315825&sr=8-1&keywords=tiger+glue

Tiger Seal is awesome!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: westernlancia on 22 October, 2013, 07:22:53 AM
Frustrating day at work today, so went to the garage for some R&R

Bits arrived yesterday for the steering box, so that is back together, just need to find the right oil to refill it.

Also this evening tried a bit of an experiment to see if it is possible to retain the original transfers whilst repainting the rusty/tired part . Took the top off the regulator , carefully masked the transfer, without actually touching it. Done by folding masking tape on itself leaving a 1 mm wide strip of sticky and then sticking that just outside the transfer (if that makes sense). Clean and paint the rest and there we go !

Was it worth it, or should I have painted the whole thing or left alone and just cleaned it up ? Well I suspect we will all have an opinion on that one !

The regulator transfer was low risk, being quite badly scuffed already but I think the method may well work on other bits like the air filter which still has the instructions on it

The bonnet catch (before and after) shows how the base plate had been designed for LHD and RHD cars. A tiny detail !



You are doing the right thing here, and almost exactly what I'd have done. You can go even slightly better by doing 'strata' of masking - 1st layer of tape 2-3mm away, thin coat of whatever, then move the tape back a bit, next coat, etc. - that way you don't get a step at the edge of the decal. Or you can do what Westernlancia used to do, which is known as 'French masking' (most appropriate) - stick the tape down not very hard and then carefully peel the edges up to make a soft edge, which again prevents getting a 'step' at the edge of the painted area. Optionally, to preserve the decal (and also hide what little 'step' remains at the edge of the paint after the preceding process), you can clear-coat the whole thing, which will stop the decal peeling and deteriorating further. I would absolutely always prefer a slightly deteriorated but well-preserved original decal than a too-clean and perfect repro one - this kind of thing is exactly what this project is all about.

I LOVE doing stuff like this - I am so jealous of Simon. But then I am 'curator' of an almost-100%-original 1937 car, and I have my work cut out conserving that (because Simon is dead right that this is a conservation project and not a restoration - that's what attracted me to the van in the first place, and it is always vehicles in this kind of condition that I try to buy. My Appia is the same kind of deal).

Ultimately, conservers are basically fighters against time - all vehicles deteriorate, but our task is to make the process as slow as possible...


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 07 November, 2013, 08:08:50 PM
To help me in my efforts in putting the furgoncino back together, last weekend I embarked on an "Appia Odyssey" !

I flew back to the UK , met up with David Laver and then we did a whistle-stop tour of Lancia commercials in the UK . I am not sure exactly how many there are, but I am sure I saw a good proportion of them !

In all , I saw a total of 8 Lancia Commercials - 4 Appia furgoncinos (including mine !!), 1 Appia camioncino, 2 Ardea camioncinos and a 1912 Jota chassis ! We saw a mind boggling number of other Lancias as well  (Lambda, 3 Asturas , countless Augustas, Aprilias , Appias, Aurelias and Fulvias etc.)   - a real treat ......

Several objectives:

Panel fit and finish
Under bonnet detail
Interior detail
Underbody detail
Organise new wing repair panel (Bill Lewis)
Be driven in the Consortium furgoncino
Have fun
Meet some Lancia folk
Drink a couple of pints
Not to buy anything
Take lots of photos

plus lots of others !

Fantastic and exhausting weekend. First stop was Don Cross (Appia Consortium and consortium Van) Second , Ron Francis (amazing collection inc an Ardea pickup and the Jota), Third was James Parry (Appia and Ardea pickups) then we went to see his father , Morris - no commercials but some lovely motor cars and a wealth of practical knowledge, then a trip to Bil Lewis with an Appia wing (via David Ashworth and his furgoncino - unfortunately he wasn't available due to family commitments but I saw the Appia !); Finally meeting up with Ade, who has (had ??) a furgoncino as well

Firstly a huge thank you to everyone who put themselves out and found time to open garage ( container ) doors and give us cups of tea. It was fascinating. I was never quite sure what the next building was going to divulge .....

Back now and still reeling from the experience - loads of pictures to file, lists of what I have to do, followup emails to write and do the day job .....

Best thing ? (Apart from meeting everybody !) - Me, David L and Don, 3 abreast,  bowling along Worcestershire countryside in the consortium van -  a real incentive for getting mine finished .......

Thanks !



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 07 November, 2013, 10:01:42 PM
Just fabulous......talk about a tour of Lancia Disneyland!

Hoping you got all that you needed and plus lots of inspiration and even more wind in your sails.


P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 07 November, 2013, 11:34:48 PM

It was a real smiles-per-hour weekend. 

I've made a start on photos for here and a write up of "The pilgrims progress" for Viva.

David


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: tzf60 on 08 November, 2013, 04:39:48 PM
Another great tale! Last time I saw Ron Francis, he was driving out my drive in Wicklow with an empty trailer, having dropped of an Aprilia the day before!!! I won't say what year, but it was in the last century.........!!!!!  :o


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 08 November, 2013, 05:36:35 PM

Another Lancia legend - Bill Lewis.

Of all the things that caught my eye in his workshop it was his mighty bench.  Quite a tale as to what it took to move it.

David


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 08 November, 2013, 05:37:51 PM

One more.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 08 November, 2013, 05:43:39 PM
.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 08 November, 2013, 06:01:14 PM
Great....Bill is indeed a legend, have just spoken to him and mailed off some old decrepit body parts to magically change into new, useable shiny nice parts....brilliant


P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: chugga boom on 08 November, 2013, 09:52:11 PM
I cant help but notice how much tidier Ades garage is compared to mine :-[


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 08 November, 2013, 09:55:39 PM
....his three best mates passed by and stayed two days to help him get it that way....;)


P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 09 November, 2013, 10:43:56 AM
Thanks for the comments about the tidyness of my garage ...............but I do have a confession to make..........
it's actually my mother-in-law's garage!
We have a deal, I have use of the garage in return for cutting her lawn.  Ade.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: chugga boom on 09 November, 2013, 05:52:48 PM
I feel cheated !!! Ade staged it all to look impossibly tidy  ;) :D


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 09 November, 2013, 05:56:37 PM
Ade's garage can't get messy, there isn't enough space once the Appia is in there !! Only joking .....

Bit of time today to strip the inner wheel arch on the passenger side. A combination of heat gun, wire brush and Roloc stripper got it off and clean. I have not taken absolutely every bit off because I am going to re-underseal as per original and some of the old underseal is very well stuck on and nigh on impossible to remove , so best to leave alone

However, came across a couple of small holes at the front of the sill, not much and once the section has been cut out you can see how little rust there is. A plate had been made before for the section immediately behind it, so I cut back to there. Have made up a plate and will weld it in tomorrow - and yes, David and James, a shrinker/expander would help enormously , but I haven't bought one yet !!

Finally, no wonder these things rust, there is a "cushion" wedged up in the top of the wing. It is a cotton bag filled with some kind of wadding, presumably to stop engine smells coming into the cabin, or something similar - it is just ripe to trap moisture and rust from inside out ! A bit of originality I am not going to retain ......


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 09 November, 2013, 07:36:15 PM
My (mother-in-laws) garage is going to be even cleaner next week when the Appia Furgoncino leaves (see also http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6656.0)
I was amazed with the response to my advert. I put it on sale on Sunday evening and by Monday morning had the deposit in the bank. (and no, Simon didn't buy it)
I now have five people desperately looking for Appia Furgoncino restoration projects, so if anyone knows of one for sale........


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 09 November, 2013, 08:00:27 PM

A memorable day that's for sure.

David


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 09 November, 2013, 08:02:58 PM

First time I'd seen an Appia axle up close.  Very delicate. 

The engine is such a jewel in or out of the car. 

Special manifolds and the brake lining trimmer.

David


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 10 November, 2013, 11:15:21 AM
Some great photos David (plus some not so good ones of me looking v tired !) -  was a lot of fun ....

Plate welded in place, photos don't really show much ! Tidied up and tiger-sealed ready for undercoat. Also need to to drill a hole and fit a steel "rivnut" for the wing bracket bolt , but need the wing in place first


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 15 November, 2013, 11:18:13 AM
A bit more progress

I have cleaned up, treated and primed the edge of the floor underneath and the area around the fuel filler. Dirty ,horrible, dusty job !

Dog has started on the roof. There were a few dings in the front of the roof, as though something had been dropped on it ! It meant that I had to take the roof lining out, but then I can clean it properly......

We have taken all the paint off - an amazing quantity, especially when you think that it had never been painted. The roof is made of at least 9 panels hand-welded together with no lead loading or filler, just amazing quality - and this on a van ! The seams are just filled with paint, so we are going the same thing.

Hopefully priming later today, if not , early next week. (blue patch is the rust converter on a small patch that had been scratched and left in the rain)

Getting close to having everything in primer, just the bonnet and repaired wing to do after the roof



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 15 November, 2013, 06:01:05 PM
No paint today, but all the little dents now removed and the picture shows the gutter being redressed. Dog cut a length of thick steel and ply to spread the impact. All nice and straight. She previously had a roofrack fitted which bent the lip...


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 15 November, 2013, 11:11:38 PM
God Simon, you're talented..........respect, yet again!


P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 16 November, 2013, 08:51:55 AM
Goodness me - I don't do the really fancy stuff .... I do all the grim jobs, welding, cleaning , degreasing, underseal removal, priming and rebuilding. Dog does the pretty stuff, although I am learning the tricks of the trade !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 16 November, 2013, 10:03:18 AM
Oh...yes...I remember now, your talented bodyguy is called Dog....pas chien??!!


;)


P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 20 November, 2013, 05:29:27 PM
The roof is in primer  ;D

I remade the "pop up spray booth" because it is very cold here at the moment and it is the only way of raising the temperature in the garage, plus it greatly reduces the dust. It also meant moving the Aprilia down the road to another garage and hoovering the floor. She started first time as usual, the joys of electric pumps.

It is an enormous panel, it took Dog a couple of days to prepare and then another to do the scuttle. Between us we have removed all the paint before he did a final sand (320 I think) , degreased, etch primed and then 2 pack primed.

You can see how the roof is made up of beautifully welded panels

Now drying off in the heated tent .... must remember to turn it off before bedtime


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Jai Sharma on 20 November, 2013, 09:45:05 PM
That is coming along very nicely :-)


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 22 November, 2013, 05:41:44 PM
Still after paint colours and getting no-where via historic colours/archive route so I cleaned up the underside of the bonnet which has the darker green with a view to analysing the colours

I was a bit worried that the colour on the frame would have been darkened by fumes/oil etc so it was a pleasant surprise when I removed the oval plates and one of them had a pristine , flat panel with the original untainted green for me to spectroanalyse

I have found a friendly , local bodyshop who has analysed the bonnet and an interior body panel (for the paler green) and come up with 100% matches for both shiny and mat codes. I am having some samples sprayed up on cards and then he can make the colours - hurrah !

Interesting, the bonnet has the same number stamp, so all matching so far ....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 22 November, 2013, 07:06:45 PM
Its surely too cold to spray paint now (been watching the temperature plummet in SW France) even with local heating????


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: the.cern on 22 November, 2013, 08:02:22 PM
Simon, i had not previously realised that George Lucas took his inspiration for the Darth Vader  look from the underside of an Appia bonnet !!!!!!!!!!

You and Dog are doing a magnificent job on the Furgoncino, just as you did on the Aprilia. Congratulations and please keep the photos and notes on progress coming.

                                         Andy


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: fay66 on 23 November, 2013, 01:09:16 AM
Simon, i had not previously realised that George Lucas took his inspiration for the Darth Vader  look from the underside of an Appia bonnet !!!!!!!!!!


                                         Andy

Well spotted Andy ;D

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 23 November, 2013, 08:42:59 AM
Re temperature, it really is cold enough to freeze the lightsabres off a jedi, but the pop up spray booth with a single electric radiator will bring the temp up from 6 deg to 18 deg C - so just about OK


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 23 November, 2013, 03:12:28 PM
Today's job was to strip and clean the passenger side floors and then tiger seal all the joints before a further coat of anti rust paint.

I found a lovely detail, just under the screen on the passenger side. It has C 80 S (the van chassis type and S showing that it is LHD) scribbled in crayon. It is very personal, reminding you that these are hand-built cars, being put together by people like us .....thought for the day !

Picture of the stamped number on the bonnet edge, found on the front edge on the passenger side


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 23 November, 2013, 10:31:42 PM

Any tricks with the Tiger Seal?

David


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: fay66 on 24 November, 2013, 12:28:22 AM
Today's job was to strip and clean the passenger side floors and then tiger seal all the joints before a further coat of anti rust paint.

I found a lovely detail, just under the screen on the passenger side. It has C 80 S (the van chassis type and S showing that it is LHD) scribbled in crayon. It is very personal, reminding you that these are hand-built cars, being put together by people like us .....thought for the day !

Picture of the stamped number on the bonnet edge, found on the front edge on the passenger side
Simon, A couple of years ago I removed "Fays" rear seat and found similar markings.
Have I missed something as I keep seeing references to 'Tiger Seal', what is it, what does it do, and where do you get it from?

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 24 November, 2013, 11:33:21 AM

Bottom of page 6, top of page 7. 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tiger-Seal-TIG-NB-Polyurethane/dp/B002SQY852/ref=sr_1_1/277-6061633-8023054?ie=UTF8&qid=1381315825&sr=8-1&keywords=tiger+glue

The Amazon feedback says semi-flexible and needs to be warm to flow from a caulking gun and that the tube goes off quick if not used.  Simon and Alan Wesson are fans - but any tips for how to use it...clean up...when not to use it...

David


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 24 November, 2013, 05:14:00 PM
Tiger seal  (I have used other makes as well) - used for a variety of purposes, gluing panels on fibre glass cars, windscreen sealing, newly welded seams and replacing old seams

Yesterday was 7deg C in the garage and I had no probs using it, this tube has been open for at least a month and still OK - I leave the nozzle to dry and then push the plug out with a piece of welding rod and re-use the nozzle

On seams (new or old) I use a maximum bead length of about 2-3 ft and then use a white spirit soaked rag on the end of my finger to smooth it off. If you leave it too long , or try to go over it a second time , it gets very messy. You can over-paint with most paints, oil based, 2 pack , cellulose etc.
It is excellent for filling and smoothing the gaps and any pin-prick holes, especially if your welding is a bit messy, like mine .....
 
On windscreens, I use the nozzle to hold the rubber off the screen whilst running a very fine bead of seal in the gap. Then push the rubber back onto the glass to squeeze out the excess , and leave for a day. Clean up by running a Stanley knife blade along the rubber (perpendicular to the screen) - years ago before new windscreen rubbers were available (or I could afford them, anyway) I got a problematic Fulvia Zagato screen sealed and looking nice




Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: fay66 on 25 November, 2013, 11:21:48 AM
David & Simon,
Thank you for the information.

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 26 November, 2013, 05:01:34 PM
Guide coat and stopper ready for the next stage.

Anti rust paint on the floors - took 2 days to dry !

Start on the bonnet tomorrow and the wing repair panel is in the post .....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 29 November, 2013, 04:22:01 PM
Dog has prep'ed , etched and primed the bonnet this week. Once all the paint was off, you could see that there had been a couple of patches of filler, so these were all tapped out and then shrunk flat using a funny dimpled hammer and paddle. At the end, only one dent required any filler, for the rest, the primer was enough.

I picked up the paint samples today, and even to the trained eye, they are perfect. The paler colour match is spot on with the dash and boot lining and the darker one is again spot on for the colour I found behind the bonnet info plate. In the absence of original codes, it is the best I can do. The colour does not match up with any known colours as far as we can see. The shiny paint is a better match than the mat, so we will do something to mute the final shine to make it a bit more "satin"

Finally a bit of bling. You may recall that I needed to find a new woven cotton sleeve for the main +ve cable from the battery to engine. Whilst searching for underlay on a popular internet auction site, I came across some 2" webbing in a heavy cotton. I sewed it along its length and then pulled it inside out to hide the seam.Threaded the wire through it, et voila ! The weave is not exactly the same as the original, but it does look nice !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 02 December, 2013, 04:09:02 PM
Prompted by Andy's question re crackle finish, I painted up one of the rocker covers this afternoon as a test

First pic - cleaned and degreased
2nd - immediately after painting - thick base coat and then 4 more coats, 3-5 mins apart
3rd - 1/2 hr later
4th picture - 1 hr later

It says on the tin that it takes a full 48hrs to be fully dry so I'll post a picture then

Finally, one of Mathilda's toys having an identity crisis ....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 02 December, 2013, 06:17:47 PM
I used the Frost black crackle paint for the rocker covers on my car. You get them really hot first by putting them in the oven, then spray and the paint dries to a good finish really quickly, then return to the oven to bake!   Just make sure you do it when the wife is not around as it makes the kitchen smell a bit. ( well actually a lot!! )


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: the.cern on 02 December, 2013, 09:39:20 PM
Simon, that looks very promising, who's product is it please?

Ade, the Frost product sounds good, I am now trying to work out who is the least scary out of one wife, one daughter or any one of three daughters -in-law. At the moment my assessment is that they are all equally frightening, which makes me think that anything that does not involve an oven may be a better, not to mention safer, option.

                                       Andy



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: chugga boom on 02 December, 2013, 10:27:24 PM


Finally, one of Mathilda's toys having an identity crisis ....
very apt, a prancing horse on a lancia..........is it a D50 ;) :D


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 02 December, 2013, 10:56:27 PM

Andy,

Working from "The Old Bake House" and with the shop in "The Forge" there must be an oven somewhere...

I can remember Bernie Fisher putting things infront of his space heater to get them toastie.

David


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 04 December, 2013, 12:49:25 PM
Andy, the paint I got from Frosts as well. Here you can see the rocker cover after a couple of days. I cured it using a heat gun so as not to upset "the wife". The crackle finish is very nice, but not having an original alongside, I cannot say how close it is to the original.

It says on the tin that if you want a deeper crackle, you apply more coats ......

Other photos of the inlet manifold , cleaned and then 2 brushed coats of VHT black (from Halfords) - I use this on brake drums as well.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: the.cern on 04 December, 2013, 03:16:55 PM
Simon, I must say that both the rocker cover and the inlet manifold look very impressive, well done.

I think that is the route to follow, thank you for your help,

                           Andy


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 12 December, 2013, 08:41:46 AM
Been busy here with body prep - lots of detail. It is taking loads of time to make small steps forward, but it is worth it. Dog has been getting the lines perfect and all the corners cleaned and sanded ready for the second primer coat. All the door seals have been removed and cleaned because it is here where we will finish the paint because I am not painting the inside.

Once cleaned you can see all the lovely spot weld marks ..... indeed on a section at the back where a plate had been welded in, we have reproduced them with a punch , how sad is that !

The only part of the inside that I am going to paint is the spare wheel well, which obviously had some water in it and has pockmarked the surface. A couple of small plates in the corners mean that we will paint up to the first hinge but not touch the floor

I have also been making a batch of T bolts to hold on the "bumper" - a thin aluminium strip that bolts to the bodywork. It makes Aprilia bumpers look useful ! Other bits include stripping and painting the spring mechanism for the filler flap and repairing a broken split- pin



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 13 December, 2013, 09:50:57 PM
Very exciting, first topcoat ! The spare wheel recess has been painted. The colour is spot on. It was a bit too "high gloss" after it went on, but we sanded with 1200 wet and dry to remove any dust/imperfections (inevitable in a standard garage) and then a fine abrasive paste to matt down the shine. Very happy with the result - not too new .....

Good test for the rest of the bodywork.

The under bonnet plates have polished up nicely and I have been able to keep the transfer/decal on the oil filter, although the top was too far gone , so that was stripped and repainted



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 17 December, 2013, 05:47:09 PM
Starting to get ready for re-assembly, preparing ancillaries etc.

Question - Is it better to put the engine and gearbox back as a single unit , or gearbox followed by engine (or other way round !) ?

Any tips /advice would be welcome, I haven't put an Appia back together before, and I didn't take it apart .....

The bodywork is pretty much prepped and I think there is less risk to shiny paintwork and better access if I fit the engine/box before refitting the wings and top coating the body


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: fay66 on 18 December, 2013, 12:52:30 AM
Starting to get ready for re-assembly, preparing ancillaries etc.

Question - Is it better to put the engine and gearbox back as a single unit , or gearbox followed by engine (or other way round !) ?

Any tips /advice would be welcome, I haven't put an Appia back together before, and I didn't take it apart .....

The bodywork is pretty much prepped and I think there is less risk to shiny paintwork and better access if I fit the engine/box before refitting the wings and top coating the body
Simon,
I can't offer any particular advice on the subject, but when I worked for Vauxhall Motors and before the advent of subframes, we used to have a hefty contraption that fitted into the backend of the gearbox where the propshaft would normally fit, this had a pair of hefty bearing type wheels so that the complete power unit and gearbox assembly went in as one piece, with the wheels enabling it to roll into place under the car without having to have someone guide it in.

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: St Volumex on 18 December, 2013, 06:11:07 PM
Assemble the engine, clutch, and gearbox, and put them in as a unit.  Otherwise getting the clutch to engage nicely with the gearbox shaft is a b.... :o


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 20 January, 2014, 05:25:14 PM
Thanks for the advice, hoping to get a bit of time on the Appia soon, the Aprilia brakes have got in the way, plus waiting for some bits to arrive from Don.

In the meantime, Dog has had some time to attack the front wing, the last bit to prepare. I had Bill make up a repair section using Chugga's wing as a pattern. And a little while back, a lovely, shiny repair panel duly arrived

Way too easy ! Unfortunately as we all know, these cars were hand made and the wings turned out to be completely different. The recess, flange and door shape are awry . The recess is more like 15mm + on my car and less than 10 on Chugga's. So effectively Dog has started from scratch ..... without stretching/shrinking tools it has taken a while. Unfortunately Father Christmas didn't read that page on my list !

Initial shaping was done on the door frame, then fitting it around the door itself before finally being fitted to the wing. The wing and door are now both in place so the final fitting can be done - planned for tomorrow. I daren't tell you how long this all took because it is a complicated shape ......

The rest of the wing has also been stripped ready for priming. All looks sane under the red-lead. It is so good to see the back of all that thick, red paint !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 20 January, 2014, 10:35:15 PM

How was it made?  Is it several sections welded?

David


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 20 January, 2014, 10:47:04 PM
Single piece , stretched and shrunk using hammers and dollies. Dog has these funny hammers with a dimpled surface which apparently shrink the metal - dark art !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 21 January, 2014, 08:39:30 PM
Big psychological step forward today - fitting the radiator grill !

The repaired wing has been re-fitted and final profiling done whilst in place. There had been a previous repair to the wing which we have kept because it is very solid.
There is more "weld" than I would like, and in an ideal world, where there are specialists in the traditional art of the English wheel around every corner, I would remake the whole rear wing-quarter, but we live in a quiet backwater of Europe where there are few wheels and fewer English .....

Dog has done a marvelous job of creating the back edge and it fits like a glove. A very light skim of filler and it is perfect. Whilst at it , I have welded up the side light holes which were added at a later date to satisfy the Italian regulations.

The grill is fabulous, nicely patinated chrome and only a small dink on the centre vertical, which I have straightened as much as possible, and plan to leave with a small imperfection rather than risk re-chroming. The back of the grill still has the black paint on it which I am not going to touch up either.
I've got a brilliant cream for cleaning chrome, it's an old "Amway" product that came from someone dedicated to the company years ago. It was the only thing in their range I ever rated ! Coat of the usual "super resin polish" and it should look nice for a while.

It shows the quality of the chrome, because the furgoncino sat, languishing in a field for more than 20 years

The fluted section took a while to remove and only needed one of the screws drilling out and re-tapping (4x0.7 for reference). I will clean that up tomorrow.

The shield-badge will take a bit more time because it has separated with the heat and is "quite tired" ! - How do you Aurelia owners repair these ?



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 21 January, 2014, 09:39:23 PM
It wears the grille with pride Simon, lovely.

Not sure if a new repro badge is the order of the day, its a clear plastic over a painted metal?

P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 21 January, 2014, 10:54:49 PM

What's the badge made of?   I've heard of this company before but they can only help with certain types of badge:

http://www.badgecraft.co.uk/

While I think about it have you details of your gasless MIG?   For everyone else - have gasless MIGs "got good" in the time I've been away?  I remember them being barely a step up from an ARC set with one of those crazy vibrating stick holders.  When did I last see one of those...

David


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 22 January, 2014, 07:46:01 AM
The badge is made from 2 layers of plastic. A black, back piece that has some of the colour printed on it .Plus a clear plastic cover that is engraved on the reverse side and is silvered.

The whole badge is then glued onto a metal frame which is held in place in the grill with a small nut.

New badges are available in Italy (116 euros) but as Frank suggests, a shiny new badge won't be right. If I can find a good second hand badge then I can risk renovating my own.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 22 January, 2014, 09:39:24 AM
I am wondering if the plastic outer cover can be "repolished", surely there are the techniques and materials to do so, slightly more abrasive to remove deeper scratches, finer to buff up?

Same goes for re-painting the badge aspect, a model soldier painter for instance?


P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: tzf60 on 22 January, 2014, 09:48:31 AM
Simon, is the profile/size of the Appia badge similar to that of the Aprilia? Could you use an Aprilia badge while you refurb the Appia badge?
I had an Aprilia badge restored by Pamela Davids (Devon?), but while the workmanship is superb, it looks a little too new....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 22 January, 2014, 10:39:19 AM
I have already polished up the perspex using the fine polishes used for headlamp repairs, so it is the damaged paint between the layers that is the problem. Unfortunately I do not have a spare Aprilia one so the next option is a good second hand one - see "Spares Required" !!

I have seen a nice one in Italy , but it is still attached to a lovely chrome grill , so expensive ....



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 22 January, 2014, 04:54:02 PM
Fluted piece cleaned up as well, not perfect but not rusty - down to the copper in a couple of places. Bubble-wrap and store until the next wing fitting .....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 23 January, 2014, 05:23:33 PM
Whilst Dog is finishing off the prep on the wing, I have started to clean up some of the bits.

In order to get the wing fitted correctly we have fitted the filler strip and joint trim, so they needed cleaning up first. The filler is an aluminium strip that slots (is glued) into a thin plastic sheath, then these fit over the wing mounting threads. Once the wing is loosely fitted then the joint trim is slotted in from above, and on the wing side, before the thin metal tabs are clamped in place when you tighten up the nuts

The tabs slide along the trim, 8 in all

Some before and after shots of the trim, filler strips and interior cover plates. For the aluminium I start with a very fine "scotchbrite" roloc disc on the air-sander and then go over it with 000 wire wool. This gives a nice even, satin finish. Final coat of resin polish to protect it

The plastic strip was cleaned off using the stripping disc at VERY slow speed, then a final clean with a "scotchbrite" pad soaked in rubber and yinyl cleaner. I find this softens up the plastic and makes it less likely to snap

The long green strips go on the "B" posts - quite a different colour before cleaning !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 23 January, 2014, 05:51:55 PM

Very nice...

What's the cleaner?

On the gasless mig (anyone) - does this ring true?

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/gasless-mig.htm

David


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: tzf60 on 24 January, 2014, 09:26:11 AM
Looking great, Simon - the cover plates have really smartened up.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: blueboxer on 24 January, 2014, 12:23:49 PM
I'm really enjoying this thread. Keep up the good work.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 24 January, 2014, 05:52:06 PM
Thanks for your comments , gents.

Picture of the rubber/vinyl cleaner along with some other products I use. Please note that I have nothing to do with Autoglym, no shares, no great aunt working in the sales dept etc . They are easy to get, cheap on eBay and they work !

Plus a couple of pictures of the ally trim showing it with/without the wire wool stage. I prefer the satin look achieved with the wire wool, but with just the polishing wheel it is quite a lot shinier.

On the underside, I don't bother with the wire wool, just the resin polish for protection


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 24 January, 2014, 09:42:49 PM
Sorry, forgot to mention gasless MIG

I definitely get the splatter, but it cleans up easily. Penetration is good on 0.8 - 1 mm x 2 thicknessnes, goes all the way through.
Not good on very thin or rusty metal, oxy-acetyline much better. Doesn't produce the prettiest weld but for me the upsides outweigh the downsides on a day to day basis.

I weld forward with gasless Mig, somewhere between 45 and 90 degrees to the metal, so it keeps the pool of metal hot, and you add to it, rather than pulling the tip away from the heat

Also , I use 0.8 wire because I usually weld thin steel

Overall, not perfect, but very practical,easy to set up, low distortion, economical and reliable but welds do need some tarting up afterwards !

7 out of 10


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 27 January, 2014, 07:04:56 PM
I don't know if anyone else followed the lifting of the Dornier from the English Channel, but it gave me an idea for renovating the wing trim for the Appia !

The aluminium trim was quite corroded with lots of crusty deposits, just like the wings of the airplane ! Previously, I had tried to clean up the deposits with a scraper and/or the scotchbrite disks, but they were very difficult to remove and the result was not good enough

Consequently, I made a shallow bath from some thin strips of wood and plastic bent around screws , following the form of the trim. Lined it with thick plastic sheet and then filled the bath with lemon juice - On the Dornier, they used citric acid of unknown concentration, I used all the Jiff lemons (and one lime) that I had in the store cupboard !

I dropped the trim pieces in and left for about an hour, checking regularly to make sure nothing was going awry (I had already done a test last night so I had a good idea nothing drastic would happen), then I removed one trim at a time and scraped at the deposits with a hobby knife.

Result ? - the deposits had been significantly loosened and came off easily , leaving a rough, clean surface. It meant that the rotary disks were then much more effective and polished up the metal nicely.

All that is left is to strip (chemical stripper) the paint off the outside of the trim before etching and painting to protect and preserve them.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 27 January, 2014, 10:05:51 PM

Museum conservation work...

A bit more info:

http://www.finishing.com/412/51.shtml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_and_restoration_of_metals

David


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: chugga boom on 28 January, 2014, 08:13:18 AM
simon it was a cracking program and a great idea, well done i'd forgotten about that part


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: tzf60 on 28 January, 2014, 10:04:34 AM
Simon, did you manage to get the juices back into their containers.........???!!!!  ;)


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 28 January, 2014, 11:04:42 AM
A great example of cathodic corrosion?? Also lemon juice seems to be good to clean up skin!!!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 28 January, 2014, 12:40:51 PM
A great example of cathodic corrosion?? Also lemon juice seems to be good to clean up skin!!!

...always read a post twice............ ;D

I thought it read......catholic corrosion.....not that big of a Freudian slip really......;)


P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: tzf60 on 29 January, 2014, 09:27:52 AM
Simon,
PM sent re grille badge.
 
Tim


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 31 January, 2014, 03:52:13 PM
Another milestone today

Panels loosely re-fitted and the van pushed out for a photo-shoot. We have also started preparing the back of the panels for underseal. I have removed all the loose underseal, but left anything that is properly stuck on. I cleaned it all off one section and it was clean, shiny metal underneath.

So as to get a nice even finish when we underseal the panels, we have stippled "paint on seam sealer" on the areas that were stripped. Using a short haired, stiff brush the effect is very close to the original and once "blacked" will not show up the stripped areas. Will post photos once it has dried and is painted

Next on the list is to put the engine and box back together and then refit them. There should be a parcel arriving soon with the final bits that I am missing . Dog is going to finish flating the front wing with the guide coat on it , once the paint is properly hard in a couple of weeks.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: rogerelias on 31 January, 2014, 10:12:30 PM
Love the piccy of the driver  ;D


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: chugga boom on 31 January, 2014, 10:15:02 PM
looking good, cant wait to see it in colour, well done


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 04 February, 2014, 05:34:09 PM
Badge arrived from Italy this morning so I made a copy of the back plate from the old one and glued the badge on with a blob of good old tiger seal ....

Result ? - The badge is a perfect fit and a faithful copy. If I'm being picky, the lettering is a bit too sharp. The colour is good and so it will do until I can get a nice old one, hopefully Chris can sort me out !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 04 February, 2014, 05:56:23 PM
I just looked at the old one on page 10.  Be interesting to see how it looks with the plastic flatted and polished.  Perhaps not go the whole way and take out all the scratches but just back far enough to get optical clarity?

I thought the "model soldier painter" was a good idea.  Not sure how steady your hand is with a magnifier and fine brush should you want to touch any of it in or strip back the silver and redo or something.  A nice "kitchen table" project - or is the idea that the girls kick you out into the garage?

David


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 04 February, 2014, 05:59:45 PM

...of course the new badge looks brilliant.

David


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: tzf60 on 05 February, 2014, 09:57:05 AM
Simon, the Appia looks fantastic in primer........can't wait to see it when painting is completed! The styling is just wonderful!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: the.cern on 05 February, 2014, 01:00:28 PM
Simon, that  is all looking brilliant, the new badge is very smart, but I know what you mean about the looking too new. Just as David has suggested a project to smarten up the original badge, why not a little, gentle attempt to put a little age on the new badge. No more than taking the shine off it is what I have in mind ........

As for the Hercules .............. superb !!!!!!

                                            Andy


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 11 February, 2014, 06:11:17 PM
Thank you for your comments !

A job that is taking a disproportionate amount of time is the renovation/conservation of the aluminium trim that goes between the rear wing and the body. Having cleaned, stripped and polished the trims, I then set about straightening out the dents and getting the profile back to perfect. I taped the trims to a plastic strip whilst working on them, because they are very fragile

In order to reshape the trims, Dog needed a panel beater's sand bag. They are quite expensive, so I made one from a couple of bits of Connolly (!) leather left over from the Aprilia's interior. The best ones are quadruple stitched, so I copied that and filled it with sand ...... works very well, polished leather one side, rough the other.

Once the dents were knocked out, I then set about repairing the lip. Done using fibre glass filler to glue a very fine glass fibre sheet in place, then sanding down to the same thickness as the ally

Etch primer and ready to paint. I have seen some furgoncinos with these left as polished aluminium, but trop bling IMHO

All in all, at least 2 days work ......

 


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 11 February, 2014, 06:37:35 PM

No bench for him to work on ?

David


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 11 February, 2014, 06:47:39 PM
I'll build that next week from an old piece of Chippendale ......


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 13 February, 2014, 06:03:45 PM
We've had a busy couple of days prep'ing various bits and pieces ready for painting. We are doing all the shuts now so that the doors can be hung for final painting. In order to hang doors I need to fit the front wings as well, because you cannot fit them with doors fitted !

The idea is to allow me to start putting everything back together, minimise the risk of chips when refitting, ensuring all the edges are adequately painted and also, because the furgoncino is 2-tone, I want the doors on to get a perfect, uniform demarcation between the colours.

Dog working hard, me getting in the way ......


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 14 February, 2014, 01:35:40 PM

Feel like you're on the home straight now?

David


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 22 February, 2014, 02:05:20 PM
David, the difficult bit is about to start ........

A bit of work on the engine today and a request for you Appia folk out there.

How do you refit the distributor drive so that it is in the correct position for the ignition timing ? Do you set the engine at TDC on one or other cyl and then have the offset slot pointing at something ? Or do I just go back to first principles and fit the distributor /rotor and cap and make sure it points at the correct cylinder and the condensor is on the correct side ????

Thanks

A couple of photos tomorrow


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 22 February, 2014, 08:40:34 PM
Photos as promised:

The engine had been largely rebuilt when I bought the car, new pistons, ground head etc etc, but non of the ancilliaries have been done. I have cleaned ,checked and refitted the oil filter, fuel pump, oil pump, oil pipes, inlet manifold and water pipe so far. Whilst at it I have checked the oil pressure relief valves on the block and oil pump.

The oil pump has been properly cleaned and put back together . The vanes have "0" marks on each vane so they can always be put back correctly. I have been using a rebuild oil (thick semi synthetic oil that stays in place for the first revolutions of an engine before the oil gets around - any one else use this ?) on the vanes and pressure relief valves.

Couple of pics showing the bits as they go together. The copper washers have all been re-tempered by heating to cherry-red and quenched. The oil pipe in the sump has the long bolt on the long side and the short on the short side .....

I am missing the bolt that holds the oil filter body on to the base, so have had to make one from a piece of M10 threaded rod - can anyone help with a the correct bolt - it needs to be a bit longer than the one in the picture, ideally 9.5 cm in length ?

This is the first time I am putting an Appia engine/box etc back together, so if I am doing anything daft or you can offer advice, please comment !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 23 February, 2014, 07:33:07 AM
PS the rebuild oil


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 23 February, 2014, 09:19:24 AM

I've used similar. 

The copper washer treatment was interesting.  The sort of thing I used to know.  It reminds me of some years back with a slipped disk I had a phase reading up on Austin 7s again, both the books I had and on the internet.  I stumbled across something interesting and was just saying to myself "I never knew that...." when I saw my own name at the bottom.

David


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 23 February, 2014, 02:56:51 PM
I was introduced to Graphogen for bearing assembly so time ago and would recommend for bearing surfaces.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 23 February, 2014, 04:03:22 PM
The girls are away today so I have spent the afternoon undersealing the front end of the car. It took an age to mask everything, but I don't want to upset Dog by getting underseal on his nice clean primer .....



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 23 February, 2014, 05:59:57 PM
Simon, so you just etch primed only then undersealed, maybe I missed which product you used?

P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 24 February, 2014, 05:09:03 PM
Actually, I used a zinc based primer on the bare metal so as to give a bit more protection and then a shutz type of underseal. I will have to do another coat at lower pressure because the bare metal bits have come up too smooth compared to the original..... oh well !

Did the back of the wings today and they are a lot better, but then we had stippled the seam sealer on them first


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 24 February, 2014, 05:28:50 PM
Thanks,

P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 28 February, 2014, 06:15:41 PM
New arrivals :

Wednesday - Appia 3rd series
Thursday - Moto Guzzi Ercole

Quite a week , Christmas and birthday in 48 hours .....

Will start a new thread for the Appia, but here are a couple of teasers. Very sound, will need one 2"x2" patch on the floors and that is all !
Bit of work on one outer sill, bottom of 2 doors and the rear valance, so really not too bad. The front R wing has been crumpled ,but straightened and just needs a coat of filler. The Engine appears to be seized, but has been running recently, so Redex or similar for a few days and see what happens. I think I will take it out anyway as a practice for the furgoncino. Already, the 3rd series has answered some of the rebuild riddle for the van because they are both LHD

I bought a lovely interior from Ben Courage because the seats were missing - thanks Ben !

The Ercole, I will put a couple of pictures up, but will probably do a blog-thing on our wine website since it isn't a Lancia !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 28 February, 2014, 07:49:14 PM
Easy peasy for the man who can.............accompanied by the dog of course ....:)


Look forward to more pics and stories Simon, great!


P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 28 February, 2014, 09:50:18 PM

Make sure it doesn't end up "too good to use"!!!!

David


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 01 March, 2014, 09:49:11 PM
David, not much chance of that !
P, will start new thread under a pseudonym because planning to do a "quick and dirty" - where have we heard that before ? Restoration creep ......

Another look/think does suggest that I whip the engine/box out to see how it all works. I can see how the timing is set up etc


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 02 March, 2014, 03:00:39 PM
Seeing the selection of Lancias lined up in your garage Simon reminds me of a production line, albeit slow moving and infinitely more difficult.

What a lovely mini-fleet you'll soon have. So where you looking for the Appia, where did you find it, fill us in; because the hunt is sometimes the most enjoyable aspect!


P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 13 March, 2014, 07:42:56 AM
To answer my own question about timing the distributor drive.

With the engine at TDC on #1 cyl, the offset for the dizzy drive slot is to the right of centre, when the slot is pointing at the rearmost cylinder.

This means that the wires and condensor are accessible and do not block the adjustment - I once had an R4 with the drive in the wrong place, so the engine ran, but it was a pain to adjust because the condensor jammed against the block and didn't allow easy adjustment


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 06 April, 2014, 10:37:38 PM
Simon.......were you looking for something else to add to your stable or is it just a forum myth.....;)...?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/renault-estafette-lhd-low-km-one-owner-classic-no-reserve-/380879586814?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item58ae3145fe


P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: fay66 on 06 April, 2014, 11:05:47 PM
Make a nice small motorhome!

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 08 May, 2014, 09:13:16 AM

More holiday photos:

Compare and contrast van and SII saloon front axle location.

A repaired trim.

Interior - as found and the planned finish?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 19 May, 2014, 05:09:22 PM
I have been meaning to fit the exhaust manifold for ages so I can move the engine and give myself a bit more space on the bench.

I have 4 cyl heads in total and all of them had rusty exhaust studs, suggesting a weakspot. Sourcing some of the studs has been easier than others.

45 mm x M8's to replace the front stud and are easily found. The head-thread is slightly shorter, so need to be careful not to over-tighten !

The 3 others are longer, about 80 mm in total and a mix of M8 fine (1.0) and cobottom (cobottom head-thread). Finding these was more difficult so I bought longer ones, rethreaded and cut them down. They are M8 cobottom (1.25) at both ends so now have shiny new, long brass nuts. The only problem is that they are 13 mm not 14 mm hex's. I made them slightly longer (85 mm) but I think this might irritate me and I will have to trim them slightly !

I had to replace one of the studs (cut down 45mm) on the outlet side as well as well as tidy up the threads on the other 2 studs. All clean with new nuts, so should help the re-assembly process.

The 3rd series exhaust fits nicely on the manifold - I would love to build a test-bench to try it all out ! (Flaminia envy)





Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 20 May, 2014, 09:09:07 AM

"cobottom" ????   New one on me.

David


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 20 May, 2014, 11:20:40 AM
Cobottom - the opposite of fine ......it seems the autocorrect did not like co*rse !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 25 May, 2014, 07:45:14 PM
During David and Zoe's visit, we went to a vide-grenier (car boot sale but literally "empty your attic") in a nearby village and came across a "must have" .....

A 1940's or 50's Italian officers' canteen. A complete set of cooking implements, coffee making pieces, egg cups etc etc. All stacked in a box which converts to a table. Ideal for days out in the Appia

The colour even matches the furgoncino's tones !

Here are a couple of pictures of the box in the Appia, hopefully David will upload some of his pictures, which are far more artistic !!!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: the.cern on 26 May, 2014, 09:16:56 AM
Simon, a brilliant find, well done!!

                     Andy

PS David, the challenge is out there, we are waiting for the artistic shots ......... they will be marked out of ten!!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 26 May, 2014, 09:42:17 AM

What he hasn't admitted to is that there was a French one as well - and that came home as well...  Lots of jokes about how little use it would have seen out on campaign, and back home William almost has a full 'Allo 'Allo episode of gags about the officers having to finish their meal or sending troops out to forage.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 26 May, 2014, 10:09:45 AM
.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 26 May, 2014, 10:10:55 AM
.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 26 May, 2014, 10:12:56 AM
.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 26 May, 2014, 10:13:21 AM
.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 26 May, 2014, 10:13:56 AM
That's a lovely thing. You have some good stuff at the vide greniers near you. Better than the hand knitted cover with tassles for an old style telephone I saw at a local one here (really!). Perfect for a weekend camping at the historic Le Mans (the canteen, not the woolly cover).


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 26 May, 2014, 10:20:02 AM
.................in fact, you should base the entire Appia around that accessory alone, spray it Olive Drab, turn it into a field kitchen.................


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 05 June, 2014, 07:15:50 AM
Simon, that is just fabulous, you're like a kid on Xmas morning!

One more for you, a little brother maybe?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Renault-Utilitaire-1950-55-/121351250547?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item1c41192273

P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 22 October, 2014, 04:37:26 PM
Back from a weekend in the UK with Mathilda. Lots done including a visit to Mr Laver - love that Augusta, oh and the Zagato , oh , and what's in that pile of spares .....

Also had a chance to see my latest purchase - the Appia Promiscuo. I will start a proper thread at some point in the future , but a couple of teasers for now

Overall condition is ....... medium - The floors and sills are a real mess and need wholesale replacement, but wings, doors, bonnet etc all pretty good. I have seen a lot worse and we all know that there are people out there who know what they are doing and can deal with it !

As far as we know, this is a unique car built by Zanella of Parma on a 1st series (1955) furgoncino base. It has been done extremely well, no amateur finishing. It also had a Weber gas conversion , some of the set up is still there. The engine is not seized and it selects all (5 forward) gears.
The inside is enormous and very airy and in pretty good condition. The petrol filler is in the boot, the rear doors are steel, the boot insides are lovely aluminium panels and the spare is hidden behind a lift-off hatch. Lots of nice details

For the time being it is going back into storage until I have the time and resources to deal with her .......


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 10 March, 2015, 09:18:49 PM
Still keeping this on the back burner whilst doing other things !

I am having a batch of brake flexi's made up for the Appia commercials. They are longer than the standard Appia (and similar Aurelia) brake pipe rubbers .

Please let me know asap if you are interested in a set.



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 16 March, 2015, 08:39:32 PM
Last chance, I am having 50 made and all are accounted for - I can still increase the order but need to know soon. They will be about 10-12 euros each, made in Italy and Euro certified etc etc .


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 09 May, 2015, 09:41:58 PM
The furgoncino is rapidly rising to the top of the the "to do" list and one job that I have been meaning to do for a fellow "forumiste" is make some lower wing profiles .

I have been scratching my head as how best to do it and saw an idea on tinternet. It is a guide, but is a very good start. I have looked at profile gauges and they can be quite expensive and at the cheap end, are of questionable quality ....

First go produced a reasonable result, although card rather than cardboard will be easier to cut accurately

Next proper job for the furgoncino is to get the engine bay fitted out so we can paint the body. The new brake hoses have been made and will be here next week, and having learned from the S3, I will get the brakes working before I fit the engine and box.

Also want to build an engine stand to run the engine before it is fitted, so I have been watching Andy's posts carefully


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: the.cern on 09 May, 2015, 11:06:27 PM
Ingenious!!!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Dikappa on 10 May, 2015, 07:18:22 AM
Oh my god Simon,

I'm sorry for doing this to you!
But the tool is very wel made!

See the picture of the Original I used to copy the profile of the sills, only to find out when I accidentally fitted my copied shape to the other side that there is a considerable difference between left and right!

Should I send you my tool?

Thanks any way to go through this.  I hope to find some time to spend on the furgone during the holydays.
But your effort will not be in vain as there is a second furgone in Belgium needing exactly the same panels.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Dikappa on 10 May, 2015, 07:24:29 AM
Something I forgot to add:

From now on some readers might think very low of me, but I keep our 'doctor oetker' frozen pizza boxes, as the provide very good material for mould making.





Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: the.cern on 10 May, 2015, 08:35:00 AM
Dear Dikappa, those of us on this forum who are followers of Project Binky are aware that there has been a misunderstanding regarding the acronym CAD. Most think, erroneously, that it stands for Computer Aided Design. We, the enlightened, know that it stands for CARDBOARD Aided Design. You are in good company with your Dr Oetker boxes. Personally, I favour Shredded Wheat boxes.

                                 Andy


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 15 May, 2015, 08:59:29 AM
Well I took your advice and switched to cereal boxes (puffed wheat to be exact) and much more precise !

Although what Koen actually wanted , didn't need the profiling tool, but I used it anyway ..... interestingly the 2 sides are quite different - the joys of handbuilt cars !

As an aside, I have had new furgoncino/camioncino/autolettiga brakes hoses made and they have arrived now. For those who ordered them, I will be in touch in the next few days. I have 2 spare sets made,  if anyone else is interested.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Dikappa on 15 May, 2015, 07:33:48 PM
I'm a happy Hector looking out for the postman now!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 21 June, 2015, 12:45:08 PM
I am preparing for painting and have put the steering box on and have started on the brakes because the fronts are much easier to get at without the front wings.....

They have come to pieces very easily and are in perfect condition, not sure how much Alan did before I bought the car, but the backplates have never been off and I would be surprised if the tie-rod has even been removed. The backplates do not need to be painted after they were cleaned up, just a light dusting on a couple of bare bits.

The front axle and steering are straight off an Aurelia, B24 I believe, and the parts have B10 numbers etc. Some are over-stamped with C80 (Appia furgoncino) and I presume camioncinos would be over-stamped with C83. The lead shoe is cast iron backed and the trailing shoe is aluminium.

Everything striped, cleaned, etched and painted. Some detail pictures showing the oil relief valve at the top of the sliding pillar, the lovely coppered bolts holding the steering arm in place and then the brass filler nut for the lower suspension. All beautifully made - as you'd expect !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 22 June, 2015, 08:49:38 AM
Fantastic engineering. How much were these when new? Was there some kind of governmant tax relief on commercial vehicles? It's like taking a British van apart and saying 'Front axle and steering are straight off a Bentley Continental'.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 24 June, 2015, 07:08:23 PM
Stan, nicely put !

Bit more cleaning and prep. I have kept to the original paint limits and resisted painting anything extra, it would have been much easier to paint the whole hub !

Last picture shows the re-made brake flexis, on full suspension travel and full lock - they are not distorted. The flexis are nearly 2 inches longer than standard Appia/Aurelia front brake hoses. You can see just above the axle stand that there is a large spacer (cream coloured) between the chassis and axle.

I am waiting to fit them finally because I have had to order new nuts (M18 x 1.5) and washers - mine were missing.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 02 July, 2015, 08:38:39 PM
I had a couple of hours this afternoon whilst waiting for the wind and heat to subside, so cleaned up the other side. It is very quick to strip the brakes, 20-30 minutes from removing the wheel to having the backplate off.

For your amusement, and I promised Tim H I'd take a photo ......... once the conditions became more favourable - 10pm ! - I went and did a sulphur treatment. The "gimp" mask is to protect your eyes, sulphur can make you cry for a day - it's a haz-mat full resp system, so I'll be fine if there is a nuclear war ......


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: the.cern on 02 July, 2015, 10:14:04 PM
You seem to be having a light bulb moment there Simon!!! Does it happen often? It's bloody infrequent with me and getting more so .... damned old age!!!!!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: westernlancia on 02 July, 2015, 10:30:55 PM
They have come to pieces very easily and are in perfect condition, not sure how much Alan did before I bought the car, but the backplates have never been off and I would be surprised if the tie-rod has even been removed.

That van was (is) amazing. As far as I could tell, when I bought it, the front wheels had never been off (the wheel nuts were virtually unmarked). It certainly had (has?) the original tyres, those wonderful old Michelin goods vehicle ones. I am virtually certain that no-one had ever had the drums off, because the grease caps were unmarked. I can't remember if we did anything inside the brakes, but I don't think we did. But I can confirm the originality - it was utterly incredible. That's why I was so sad to have to sell it - I love timewarps, and although my 37 Terraplane and my S1 Appias are even more so, the Furgoncino was a close third!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: westernlancia on 04 July, 2015, 08:22:59 AM
interestingly the 2 sides are quite different - the joys of handbuilt cars !

Well, that might be... ahem... my fault. Both those rear wings were rebuilt, and by two different people (one extremely competent and one perhaps a bit less so). The van needed hardly any metalwork, but most of what it needed was there.

So it's perhaps not fair to blame the artesans of Bolzano for any differences between the two sides...


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 13 July, 2015, 06:08:08 PM
Thanks Alan,

Both have been done nicely, we removed all the filler and put the thinnest skim back, so maybe it was neither Bolzano nor Exeter, but Mailhac !

Back to Mailhac, full steam ahead on the body and front axle. Dog is flatting and prepping the panels and body prior to a second 2K undercoat. Still hoping to start topcoat by the end of the month

I've finished the front axle and hubs ; cleaned, degreased and re-painted.

I'm sure that everyone is aware of this, but there are threaded holes (M8 standard pitch) to help remove the drum once the 4 slotted retaining screws have been removed.

I didn't remove the axle to clean it because I have heard that it can be a real pain to refit the bolts because they move out of alignment by the tiniest of fractions and can be virtually impossible to refit without rams and/or clamps. Best left alone !

Couple of interesting points (for the anoraks amongst us), the axle plate is off-centre by a long way, did they skew them to the driver's side on purpose ?? The plate shows "C80S" - ie LHD furgoncino - and then axle number

The cut out for the steering box is very crude. You can imagine a big, hairy Italian with an angle-grinder cutting out the square of metal for his mate to weld in the box - "Luigi, don't forget it's a "sinestra""

Finally, you can see very clearly the body spacers which give the extra ride-height.






Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 14 July, 2015, 04:44:45 PM
More today ..... Dog has finished flatting all the removable panels ready for a second primer tomorrow. Then we can do the body itself. For that I need to have finished the front axle/steering, so that was my job today

The Appia/Aurelia steering joints are beautiful, loads of machined parts, spring-loaded ball joints and castle-ated nuts. Hugely expensive !

Most of the parts have been stamped with a dot, someone once told me that this was a proof of testing along with the yellow paint marks. I will show a picture of the marks if anyone is interested

Should all be back together tomorrow - off to see the fireworks now - Bastille Day !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 14 July, 2015, 07:01:21 PM
Where are the fireworks?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: the.cern on 14 July, 2015, 07:15:09 PM
The Appia/Aurelia steering joints are beautiful, loads of machined parts, spring-loaded ball joints and castle-ated nuts. Hugely expensive !


That takes me back a month or two!!!!  You are right Simon, the ball joints are a work of art!!! I felt it necessary to lap them in, just to bring them back to their former silky smoothness!!!

It is great to see you forging on ..... I am still in a somewhat stagnant situation at the moment with the Appia, but the Gussie is romping on!!!!

Keep going and please keep posting, if only to get me back into finding that b***** knock in my Appia!!

                    Andy


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 14 July, 2015, 08:10:53 PM
Where are the fireworks?

.......across La Manche.......... :D

P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 14 July, 2015, 08:49:26 PM
The white panels look like an airfix kit - I hope you know how lucky you are to have the space to spread them like that...

Lovely photos of the joints.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 15 July, 2015, 05:17:38 PM
Thanks for your comments, fireworks were excellent as was dinner beforehand ("En Face" centre of Narbonne)

I have done a bit of a garage swap with a neighbour, I am sorting out the final bits on the Citroen HY van chez moi, and Dog is prepping and priming in the neighbour's garage.

Fair swap !

Looking forward to updates, Andy (or should I say "Forum Award-winning Andy" - congrats !)

Just to finish off, steering re-assembled, wheels on and the pushed round to said neighbour's garage. I have all the newly re-primed panels back here ready to be 1200 wet-flatted. Hopefully she can go away to be painted next week ......

Steering box will have to come off again to fit the brake pipes, hence no stops and the presence of a 13 mm bolt instead of the correct 14mm pinned bolt. The rest is torqued-up and greased.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 27 July, 2015, 06:10:19 PM
Everything has been re-primed, guide-coated, flatted, wet flatted with 400 then 800 and any final tiny imperfections stoppered. We brought the shell back from the neighbour's, using the Rodeo to stop it rolling down the drive ......

Wings and doors fitted ready to go to the paint shop tomorrow.

The van is 2-tone, so we have to fit the panels to get the line between the 2 colours lined up along the doors and body.

Big day tomorrow !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancianut666 on 27 July, 2015, 06:27:44 PM
Looking good Simon!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 28 July, 2015, 11:39:31 AM
The excitement builds.............


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 28 July, 2015, 04:18:37 PM
Off she went today - but not without fuss !

The "Boys in Blue" set up a controle in the centre of the village (we are 400 souls) and stopped everyone and checked all their papers .......

I was in a Polish lorry, UK driving license in France with an Italian car on the back ......

A German neighbour had his Honda Monkey Bike confiscated because he had no helmet and no reg plates !  So much for tranquility in "La France Profonde"



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 28 July, 2015, 06:43:35 PM
Mon Dieu! Just like I picked up a 90eu fine for passing through on Orange in neighboring LC. Feels like Bedfordshire!!! (No offence Brian).


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 29 July, 2015, 11:43:48 AM
Month ago picked up 90 euros and 1 point for doing 56km/h in a 50 zone. In fact I was still slowing into the town and remember making the little face smile on the sign. They knock off 10% for speedo error so all that for travelling at 0.4K/h over the limit!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 02 August, 2015, 07:54:13 AM
I am not necessarily going to rewire the furgoncino, however I am practicing on a HY Citroen Van that probably has the same level of complexity

Using Andy's "on board" approach and time, it is quite straight forward. I have screwed every terminal onto the board and am replacing one wire at a time.

The only down side is that the original loom is lost because I am cutting the old wires out. Less chance of making an error ??


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 26 August, 2015, 02:46:35 PM
Finally !

Furgoncino painted and looks fab ...... panels brought home, waiting to borrow the low-loader again for the body

Once vendanges are finished I can start putting everything back together again, which may take a while. The paint is too shiny at the moment so we anticipate a very light flatting to matt it down a bit.

The picture of the rear doors gives a good idea of the colours, they are as close to the original that I can get. No colour refs were available from any of the sources I tried, so I spectro'd 2 clean and unfaded sections from the original and copied them.

Once that's done and we have finished our new wine name/logo (more later !!!) , then I will get some signs made up for the sides .......


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 26 August, 2015, 03:00:34 PM
Simon, great news, what a wonderful journey you've given us all and indeed at the same time brought back to life a fabulous little Lancia, hope to see you opening a very nice bottle of bubbly and spraying some over the grille emblem in the not too distant future.

P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: the.cern on 26 August, 2015, 04:37:11 PM
Brilliant Simon, such great progress. Interesting that you think the paint is too shiny, I know Chugga likes to flat two pack back a little to take the shallow gloss off of it.

How is the 2CV loom going, it was looking well on the way in the photograph!

                                               Andy


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Dikappa on 27 August, 2015, 07:13:46 AM
Looking gooooooooooooood Simon!  Very motivating....but I promised the kids to get the superjolly going first so the furgone is on hold, but not forgotten.
But this is a major step forward!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 27 August, 2015, 07:57:21 AM
Looks better than new! You must be a happy bunny and itching to stop picking grapes and pressing wine. When do you start this year?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 27 August, 2015, 09:34:47 AM
That's a beautiful paint finish - looks great. I take your point though to knock it back a little to give it some 'age'. Must be really satisfying to complete a project like this.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 27 August, 2015, 11:05:25 AM
.....................meant to ask - what's the soft top in the background of the first photo?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 27 August, 2015, 11:10:38 AM
By the way does Juliet know you have the living room carpet....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 27 August, 2015, 12:51:59 PM
Thanks for your comments !

Now the difficult bit starts, especially since most of it arrived in boxes, but hopefully she will be ready for a road trip to the UK next year (wine promo tour .....) so there will be a few more posts yet

Andy, the loom went back into the HY van and all works, I added a couple of extra circuits to bring it up to date - indicators and separate earth. Van should be going for MOT this week - first time in 40 years

Stan , the car next to the furgoncino is a Riley, I will take a better picture when I collect the van and before I clean the carpet ....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: tzf60 on 27 August, 2015, 03:33:00 PM
Well done, Simon! It looks fantastic in the two-tone scheme.....love the colour!! keep the pictures coming.....!!!
 
Tim


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 06 September, 2015, 01:47:15 PM
Home at last .....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 06 September, 2015, 06:11:25 PM
Just read your first entry again. For a 'conservation' project and not a 'restoration' project it's looking pretty sharp! I'd like to see a restoration project.........


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 06 September, 2015, 07:24:05 PM
Just read your first entry again. For a 'conservation' project and not a 'restoration' project it's looking pretty sharp! I'd like to see a restoration project.........
Its amazing how one can get sucked in....Lovely but leave it out in the sun to matt off....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 18 September, 2015, 05:41:23 PM
Thanks Gents !

You are right about the conservation/restoration project. It is a difficult one, I am still aiming to retain as much of the original as poss but obviously the body had already been stripped so needed a complete repaint, but using next to no filler and keeping the original and visible welding lines on the roof, for example.

The interior is not going to be touched, other than a good clean.   

The bit that I find difficult is the suspension/underbody/steering etc , where, once it is cleaned and made good, it is often badly chipped or surface rusted. So, when to keep as is and when to strip and paint ?

Today was brakes, obviously you have to replace the rubber bits, but I also decided to make new pipes as well. There was some surface pitting on one pipe and they were all hard/brittle as anything, so new it was. I have sanded down the tube though to remove the "standards" and batch numbers etc. But they also have new unions and olives.

Plus I have followed the original routing. If you look carefully there are extra tabs that were spot-welded to the body to take the pipes (and not used), but in the main it was routed with the suspension oil pipes, and sometimes outside those as well, so I have kept to that !

A new master cyl had been fitted, but many years ago.That has been stripped and new seals ordered from Omicron because the brakes on the furgoncino are largely Aurelia

I plan to get the brakes working before fitting the engine and 'box because as I found with the S3 it is a right-royal-pain-in-the-bum to change the master cylinder once everything is in place !

Next is the gear linkage and trial gearbox fit


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: frankxhv773t on 18 September, 2015, 07:05:21 PM
Perhaps on the underside you could just wire brush the surface rust then use rust converter and cover it all over with waxoyle or similar. That way it gets the protection it needs but retains something of the patina.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 22 September, 2015, 05:03:32 PM
Frank, thanks for the suggestion. I am lucky that there is no rust on the underside, apart from a bit on the rear valance that has been replaced. The rest still has the original underseal. I have gone over it to check it is not loose and then as you suggested, I "painted" over it with black waxoyl. Now it has dried (always slightly tacky) it looks very acceptable.

Vendanges finished yesterday, so hopefully I can get a bit more time in the garage before the next (building) project starts. Today I dismantled the clutch mechanism.

There is a large 32mm 2-sided nut holding it all together, however this is recessed and inaccessible with spanners and a standard socket will not fit. The trick with this is to compress the pressure plate using a couple of G-clamps so the nut extends beyond the sleeve, turn the unit upside down and clamp said nut in the vice.

I dropped a couple of bolts through the mounting holes and then undid the nut by turning the unit with a tyre lever

It appears that the release bearing had already been replaced because the nut had been slightly damaged.

Second picture shows it all in bits because the TAV isn't entirely clear as to how it goes together, the spring (part 17) is actually at the far right, after the nut, not before as shown. This is from a 1st Series book, but it is the same for later series.

Thought you might like the ad from Vinisud 2014 !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: the.cern on 22 September, 2015, 10:25:29 PM
I find it amazing that some of the TAVs are so inaccurate/misleading!!! I had the spring location problem and so stuffed/jammed a short piece of cardboard tube with 'spring' written on it into the true spring position until I was raedy for the final re-assembly!!

Excellent work as usual ....

                                Andy


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 23 September, 2015, 08:58:48 AM
Ingenious way of undoing it.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 25 September, 2015, 05:53:05 PM
In between pump-overs and pigeage (pushing down the grape-skin cap) I have had some time in the garage and have started on the wiring loom

It only really needs checking over, cleaning and refitting, but it takes a lot of time .......

First off was to clean the aluminium tags, photograph and record everything so that hopefully everything will work afterwards ! I used an artist's brush and white spirit to clean the tags.

Once everything was recorded, I removed the fusebox and other ancillaries, before sliding off the sleeves. I have bound each bundle as well to help re-assembly. Now I can clean the wire and sleeves properly

New master cylindre seals have been received and fitted (usual Omicron efficiency) so the master cyl is in along with the brake fluid reservoir. This was stripped and checked. Putting it back together can be a fiddle because you have to compress a spring and line up the wobbly plunger rod with the hole in the main body.

Fortunately there is a drilled hole in the top of the plunger so you can hold it in place with a welding rod and then thread that through the main body before compressing the spring and screwing it all together.

The steering column surround and gearchange mechanism have also been refitted along with the pedal box. All the threads have been cleaned etc etc .......

Lots of other detail but not that interesting !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 28 September, 2015, 09:09:02 PM
Wiring has taken ages, some wires missing, others not connected and all of it was a mess (first photo shows how it arrived).

Back to basics, all cleaned, checked and circuits followed. One of the wires to the voltage reg was missing all together and there were no wires for the brake switch etc etc

Only major problem was that one of the fusebox terminals was utterly seized so needed to be remade. I drilled out the grub screw, retapped the terminal and base because it sheared as well, made a mounting bolt and new grub screw and refitted and soldered it all. It is the main charging circuit, so no real surprise that this one was slightly charred/seized - it does mean that I will need to check the charging once it is all back together and working.

The rest has been a question of following the wiring diagram and putting it back as it should be.

This afternoon was spent refitting the steering column, steering box and drop arm etc.

It all went back together nicely until I pushed the column fully home, then it became tight and "graunchy". There are a lot of things to get in repose, the column, its housing, the steering box, the steering box clamp and so on. The main problem I found was that the bearing at the top of the column housing, just behind the steering wheel, was damaged. It looks like a white metal bearing à la main bearing on an Aprilia and others.

Indeed, if you have tight, sticky steering on an Appia (and I suspect, Aurelia) this would be worth looking at !!

I ran a hone through it, greased it up and then refitted everything carefully, always rotating the column as I tightened things up. If anything started to get get "sticky" , I backed off and re-positioned it. After several hours (!!!!) it is beautiful and light - as it should be.

As per the suggestion from Chris Gawne a while ago, I chose the nicest section of the steering box for the "centre".

Also refitted the suspension oil reservoir and (new) pipes, oil pressure pipe, heater pipe surround, lighting circuit conduits etc. A significant amount of time has been taken trying to find the right screws/bolts and so on. It was all dismantled and put in boxes, so trying to find the correct "domed, phillips" set screw, for example,  can take an age ...

Might try dropping in the engine this week and see how it looks and fits

Last picture is of the pedal assembly for David, I know he likes detail !!



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 29 September, 2015, 09:20:18 AM
Everything looks so neat and tidy. Nice work indeed.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 02 October, 2015, 03:55:07 PM
Thanks Stan, Appias are very nicely designed and put together .......

More this week. The clutch cover is back together with a new release bearing (Cavalitto) and new fibre washers that fit behind the springs.

The extra brake pipe and unions also arrived.The rear pipe has been made up and fitted along with the main positive lead that runs along the sill from behind the driver's seat. Many months ago I made a new sleeve to go around this, the old one had rotted unsurprisingly

A before and after picture shows how the lead and brake pipe are threaded through the pedal assembly

Lastly, at the front end, the bonnet release catch refitted, red tape to stop me spiking myself every time I walk past !

The rear drum came off very easily and everything looks sane inside, however even with my 41mm Lancia spanner (and even bigger socket and bar) the centre nut will not come undone. Think it will require heat and will have to wait until the axle comes off

Included is a photo of the old underseal (LHS) then cleaned up with the waxoyl (RHS)

I have also stripped and cleaned the heater. It looked as if the fan blade had been catching because there were scrape marks on the casing , so whilst it was in bits I re-peened the blade to the cuff so that it no longer wobbles.

Next, I think I will do a trial engine fit to see if I have all the bits !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 20 October, 2015, 02:55:49 PM
Not had much time recently, but did get the nut off the back axle. After trying with a very long bar and shock treatment it would not move and I risked damaging the nut, so I invested in an induction heating coil system.

It works - 60 sec heating , no risk to surrounding paintwork and it came off easily with a 10" knuckle bar ...... impressive !

Now to see if it works on the seized shackle bolts, these will be more af a challenge because you need to get the heat down the shaft

Dog has been flatting and polishing the paintwork and I am equally happy with the results. It is giving a deeper, flatter shine, more in keeping with "classic" paintwork. The photos don't really capture it .......


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 09 November, 2015, 07:47:26 PM
Even though I am still exceedingly young at heart (51 last count) ,I find crawling around on a cold , damp floor, less and less enjoyable.

Here , we don't really know what cold or damp means ..... however , I have been toying with the idea of a car lift for some time and they are becoming increasingly accessible.

How many of us have full-height car lifts ?

My garage has height and width restrictions so the choice has been limited, so initially, I decided to fit a scissor-type lift. They are not cheap, starting at £2,500 (delivered) and they do have access limitations, but if you are width limited they are very practical.

I have 3.35 m max width available and until now, 2 post lifts were not an option because they needed at least 3.45m. After a lot of research I came across a new, very slightly narrower 3.5ton lift at 3.33m - I know an extra 4" is not that interesting (!) but it meant I could fit a 2 post lift - plus they are more than £1000 cheaper !

It was delivered last week, weighing in at 720kg. I dropped it onto a trailer behind my tractor and brought it over to the garage. We used the engine hoist to lift it off (in 2 parts)and onto the floor , then a trolley jack to bring it in to position. After that, 3 of us lifted the posts into the vertical and bolted them to the floor, taking extreme care to get them lined up and parallel.

So far so good, and I hope to get the rest connected up tomorrow (1 person, even with 1 &1/2 hands) and will report back.


Plus, I got to drive the Aprilia and Appia again after 3 weeks abstinence







Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 09 November, 2015, 08:15:16 PM
Thats fantastic Simon, a great piece of kit, you won't know yourself, nor will your creaking joints!!!


P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: chriswgawne on 09 November, 2015, 08:40:15 PM
Fascinating Simon. I have always wanted either a lift or pit. What height does your new piece of kit need and may I ask who the supplier is?
Chris


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: the.cern on 09 November, 2015, 09:16:42 PM
Fascinating Simon. I have always wanted either a lift or pit. What height does your new piece of kit need and may I ask who the supplier is?
Chris

You are not alone there Chris. However, I do not really have a problem with this. It is a definite NO, right from the very start!!! I have drainage connections under the floor and a headroom of about 3m .... and that applies to both the garage and the workshop!!

I do think that good access to all parts of a car can really up the quality of the finished product and that is in addition to the greater ease and speed at which jobs get done!!

A good buy I think Simon, one you will never regret and one where you will wish you could have done it sooner!!!!!!

                                       Andy


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 10 November, 2015, 07:33:14 AM
I have a sloping roof starting at about 2.5 m at the front and nearly 5m at the rear - garage is approx 6m deep.

The lift is set back a bit further and I will need to move some shelves . So long as I reverse the furgoncino in, I can lift it to full height (1.8m off the ground). The 3rd series is fine because it has a boot .....

BUT - I will need to be careful !!

The supplier was "Automotech" , there are a lot of options, some cheaper or with better options, but I bought this because it was the narrowest


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: frankxhv773t on 10 November, 2015, 05:49:21 PM
Did you think to order a transmission jack at the same time? It is invaluable for lifting heavy bits up and down to fit them underneath a car on a hoist.

Frank T


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 11 November, 2015, 05:58:30 PM
Frank, yes I bought the transmission jack at the same time - plus a 20 ton bearing press ....... postage was the same for everything. I saved so much buying a 2 post lift over the scissor lift that I was going to buy, it seemed a shame not to !

Anyway, I finished the hydraulics and electrics etc today, took 4hrs because I was one-handed. I think that 2 people could do the whole thing, start to finish, in a day. It was not difficult

I lifted the furgoncino a couple of feet to try it out, couldn't go higher because I only had 5l of hydraulic fluid and it is a public holiday today , so no shops open - need another 5l

Very happy with the result and the quality of the lift.

Hopefully things will get a whole lot easier ......



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 11 November, 2015, 07:37:34 PM
So Dog was your health and safety advisor??

Looks really nice and if not so wide I would have one in my garage!!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Dave Gee on 11 November, 2015, 08:30:32 PM
Simon
Brilliant having a two-post lift. I put a second hand one in the barn when we moved to an old farmhouse and wouldn't be without. Just one word of warning so you don't make the same mistake that I did: make sure that the adjustable pads that support the car are screwed up so that the sills don't catch on one of the arms as I put a dent in my Vignale sill.

Best wishes

Dave


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 03 December, 2015, 06:09:04 PM
All been a bit quiet of late due to the broken hand and trip back to the UK - more on that later !

A bit of good news today, I finally managed to remove the first of the 6 rear axle bolts. A combination of heat, plusgas (actually the ATF/acetone mix) and air hammer .......

Nut and bolt will need to be tidied up, but much better than cutting them off

Dog has made a lovely job of flatting and polishing the body, it looks much more like old-fashioned paintwork now, with a deeper , flatter shine


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 04 December, 2015, 02:43:35 PM
Thought I'd have a go at another bolt this afternoon and guess what, the whole axle is on the ground 1&1/2 hrs later !

The other 5 bolts were nowhere near as bad, indeed, the rear ones virtually fell out along with the silent block. The other front bolt took a bit of shifting, but nothing like as bad as the first one.

Are the front ones more exposed to spray ?? Certainly the driver's side is not protected by anything, the passenger side is partially protected by the petrol tank.

The rest came to pieces as well, the exhaust hangers, shocks and bump stops.

The silent blocks are all perfect except the first one, so new bits are on their way from Robush ltd. Size for ref is  l=66/60 mm, o/d = 32 mm and i/d = 14mm (ref RB6019) and cost £7 plus vat each

Little detail: the breather pipe was obviously in place when they sprayed satin black into the petrol cap area !

Next is to check the underseal, remove any loose and then paint/Waxoyl.

Sorry Mr Spider, you'll need a new home .......



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 05 December, 2015, 03:01:50 PM
Started cleaning up the bits, back axle first.

First picture looks like a part from a V2 missile ..... it took longer to clean than to take off (with the first bolt overlooked !)

Everything is stamped or marked, the diff has the ratio and a serial no. , the axle has another serial no. which is different to the one on the axle plate and then there is another on one of the spring supports

All begin with 27

Now here comes "Anorak's Corner" - please feel free to skip the next paragraph ....

The axle is unique to the furgoncino, and also has a different final drive ratio to the camioncino so parts are difficult -

furgoncino/ambulance 7:46
camioncino 7:50
Jolly vans apparently had 7:50 or 7:53
And some very rare 7:43 furgoncinos (2nd ser only) and some export ambulances with 7:53
All the above have the 5 speed 'box

A first ser Appia saloon is 9:41, 3rd ser is 11:46 for example and has a 4 speed 'box

So what does that all mean ? Rare parts and slow vehicles, very slow vehicles and exceedingly slow vehicles !

Rear springs with stenciled C80 markings, suggesting they are different to the camioncinos as well  



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 05 December, 2015, 03:10:03 PM
Wim Oude Weernink told me that when he was restoring his Camioncino he managed to get a brand new Furgoncino crownwheel and pinion, he fitted it so that he could go a bit quicker...... just a little bit quicker!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Dikappa on 05 December, 2015, 04:44:47 PM
Simon,

Getting a bit behind furgoncino scedule  here, let's switch dog's for a while!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: mikeC on 05 December, 2015, 05:04:05 PM
The commercials are undoubtedly lower geared - meaning slower  but perhaps not that much slower; didn't they have much larger tyres (and therefore larger rolling circumference to negate, to a certain extent, the lower ratios)?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: the.cern on 07 December, 2015, 01:21:00 PM
Those exhaust hangers look like new!!!!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 08 December, 2015, 04:27:01 PM
Quote
Those exhaust hangers look like new!!!!

With a very light clean they are almost new, not even going to paint them !

Grubby job today, cleaning off the dirt and dust from the underseal on the floors and spare wheel cover etc. Then brush painting it with black waxoyl, looks much nicer ..... but poor photo !

Plus the springs have been cleaned up amongst other bits and pieces.

My new press was pushed into service to remove the bushes - nb - there are large chamfered washers at each side of the bush and I found it better to prize them off before pressing the bush because it gave better location of the spring on the pressing plate, otherwise it was difficult to get the spring stable

 I chose not to dismantle the springs - not because I was feeling lazy, but because all they needed was a light clean . Once done (rightly or wrongly) I painted them, again,  with black waxoyl. My idea is that the liquid in the waxoyl may penetrate the leaves and give some lubrication and remove potential squeaks. Plus the wax cleaned up the interleaves nicely



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 10 December, 2015, 11:26:08 AM
Mike - you are spot on about the tyres being much taller. Once I have the beast back on the road I will be able to comment on the performance - sloth or rocket ??

Re tyres, the original pattern is unobtainable (Michelin Pilot - I think). The Consortium van has London taxi tyres I think , which are inexpensive, but to my mind don't look right.

I am thinking of Michelin X's , but "Super Comforts" would look good, however I believe they are cross plys and wear very quickly as well as being hideously expensive .....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 11 December, 2015, 05:35:54 PM
Interesting day, today ......

I have had a bit of a conundrum of late as to how to get the underneath looking correct. The underseal that is there is very sound and has been cleaned and waxoyled, so looks great.

However the couple of repairs that have been done, along with some loose patches, needed to be made to match. Normal underseal isn't right, nor is stonechip. The nearest we had got to the correct finish until now was bodyseal brushed on , then stippled with a short haired brush (I think I shared this last year)

Then, following a discussion with our erstwhile member, Mr Heath, I came across the "correct" solution. Tim said that he had seen a Flaminia prepared by Omicron where the underseal was right, but he wasn't sure how it had been done.

Fortunately Martin was good enough to share the "secret". They use a 3M 2-pack sprayable seam sealer which goes on very thick and then you can use the air to push it into folds or leave the stipples , or a combination, so it matches the original. The downside to this is the cost of the packs. The tool isn't expensive (circa £50) but the packs are about £25 each. I suspect Omicron and other professionals can get a better price.

After some homework, I came across another supplier/system where the gun is more expensive (circa £130) , but the consumables are much cheaper - a cartridge of sprayable seam sealer is about a tenner.

I am very happy with the result !

It isn't a 2-pack product, it is more like thin "Tiger Seal" but as far as I can see the effect is very similar. It has been chilly here today so after some trial and error, we warmed the cartridges in a pot of hot water to make the spraying easier. We used 2 cartridges , which I thought was not at all unreasonable for the amount we did ........

Other than that, the axle is cleaned and primed along with some other bits. The "doughnut" was restrained using jubilee clips to aid removal. The new bushes arrived yesterday and the tap and die to clean up the rogue bolt arrived today, so hopefully I can start putting her back on her feet next week



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 16 December, 2015, 08:03:14 PM
All back together and she is back on her feet ........ brakes still to do. For reference, the bolts holding the axle onto the spring are 38.3 Ft-lbs and the hub nut is 202 ft-lbs !!

The underseal has also been finished, including the front inner wings and cills. After the underseal went on I sprayed it all with satin black and then a final brush over with waxoyl to even it up.
It is possible to buy the underseal in black, I just ordered the wrong colour !

The satin black paint on the back axle is still a bit shiny, but as with the engine bay, it will calm down with time and polishing

She is back up on the lift so I can put the brakes back together and test the system before fitting the engine and 'box

New Year's resolution is to take better photos .......


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 16 December, 2015, 09:00:16 PM
So it seems 200ft lbs is in Lancia's hub nut genes as this is same a Fulvias....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 16 April, 2016, 06:03:12 PM
After extended shore-leave (!!) I have managed to resume my voyage.

Plan now is to get the rear brakes finished, bleed the system , put her back on her feet and the move on to the front end.

The rears are quite simple, using standard 25 mm (Aurelia) wheel cylinders and shoes. There are both iron and aluminium shoes, the iron being the leading shoe - why ? -  Better heat absorption, less distortion risk ??

I`ve not gone overboard on painting, the inside was so good, it was just a case of cleaning, new seals fitted and re-assembly. I think the linings are original, no evidence of the rivets having been replaced (care taken with drums/shoes because they are bound to contain asbestos)

During my layoff I bought a hub/half-shaft removal tool that was advertised for a long time on eBay - it fits both Appia and Aprilia - and I have shown a couple of pictures as to how it fits. Not planning to remove the half-shafts, but you never know .......





Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 21 April, 2016, 06:49:59 PM
Major step forward today - brakes finished !

The second rear hub was re-assembled, brake pipes and flexi fitted. Still had to finish one front brake line and then fill with fluid and start bleeding.

It took about 1litre of fluid to complete the bleeding, starting at the closest wheel, then the other front before moving to the rears. On Appias, Aprilias and other cars with the plunger system, it is very straight forward to do on your own (Appia duplex are a bit more difficult I found).

Without touching the pedal, lift the plunger, open the nearest nipple and let run out until the plunger drops, close the nipple, lift the plunger and carry on - run until it's clear without bubbles and move on to the next one. Just make sure you don't run the reservoir dry !

I adjust the shoes before starting the bleeding process

Whilst at the back I drained the diff (nice clean oil and no residue on the magnetic plug) ready for refilling. The only leaks on the diff appear to come from around the bottom 4 bolts, so they were removed, cleaned and refitted with a blob of Hylomar to try and stop the oil leaking past the threads

Lastly, the handbrake was refitted. I re-used the cables because they are not frayed and are unlikely to stretch any further. Plus I suspect that the original cables are better quality than modern ones and I have never liked stainless handbrake cable.

Interesting little detail (to me anyway !!) is that the head of the front bolt on the handbrake lever-guide is a lot longer than the rear. I don't know, but I suspect it also acts as a stop for the lever. Typically Lancia

Last picture shows a very welcome sight to pre-Fulvia owners - a plunger that stays up .....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancianut666 on 21 April, 2016, 08:01:04 PM
looking good!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: the.cern on 21 April, 2016, 08:56:09 PM
Well done Simon, looking so very good.

                                  Andy


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 22 April, 2016, 08:22:30 AM

Last picture shows a very welcome sight to pre-Fulvia owners - a plunger that stays up .....

Its hard to beat an erect plunger.............

 ;D


But great work as ever..........hoping to update my B12 thread with good news very soon

P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 22 April, 2016, 04:25:52 PM
Thanks gents - haha Frank !

You can tell "my girls" are away, I got some more time in the garage today !

First job was to fill the diff with Penrite Mild EP oil. It takes just over 3litres, approx twice that of a standard Appia diff. It took an age to fill - hence the long pipe and funnel to make it more comfortable ... indeed it took the 9 minute, long-version of "Purple Rain" (Prince RIP) to do less than half

Next up was dismantling and cleaning the rest of the handbrake mechanism. The wire from the dashboard goes around 3 pulley wheels before reaching the lever. Each pulley was cleaned and lubricated before refitting

The only problem is that I am missing the pinch-bolt at the end of the handbrake pull lever - Can anyone help ?
I tried to make one by cutting down and drilling a head-stud, but they are made of amazing stuff and I blunted 3 drills before admitting defeat !
The head-stud has metric fine thread because I wanted to use the correct 14mm nut

Last thing was to clean up and loosely refit the gearbox supports. Plan is to do a trial gearbox/propshaft fit this weekend.




Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 23 April, 2016, 06:03:52 PM
More today........

Fitted the propshaft and rear shocks. Everything cleaned and painted as necessary. I put the propshaft back as it came out. It would almost be better to put the long bolts (spider/rubber/prop) back the other way so it would be easier to remove the prop without disconnecting the other end first.

The bolts have been tightened and pinned but not finished, just in case I have to take it off again to aid 'box/engine fitting

I am planning to fit the 'box from below and then drop the car and fit the engine second - any thoughts ?

No photo, but what took longest today was cleaning the threads on the lower shock absorber bolts. They are the lowest point on the car and subsequently either get caught underneath, or get used as a jacking point. Consequently the very fine thread gets damaged.

Normally I just run a tap/die over the threads but they are an odd size - appear to be M15 or imperial - and I don't have the tools, so some very careful filing got them cleaned up and working again.

Final job was to clean and "paint" the petrol tank.

The tank has not had fuel in for MANY years, so has some minor surface rust, but I don't think enough to warrant "slosh-tank" (I am not averse, I have had many good experiences with it) so I added some stones, shook it, blew it out and then swilled with a bit of diesel ! I have a nice new tank drain plug and filter, and if I put in a discrete inline filter as well, hopefully it will be OK

If it all goes pear-shaped it is easy to remove and redo .....

The outside of the tank is undersealed and in good nick, so it was just a case of wire brushing to remove the dust and then paint with black Waxoyl to make it look nice.

She is back on her feet again for the first time this year, may push her out of the garage tomorrow so she can get a tan

ps plunger still erect !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 24 April, 2016, 06:38:31 PM
An hour today after lunch ..... in France it is best to do easy things after a Sunday lunch !

Petrol tank fitted, but not as straight forward as you would think, it is v tight against the propshaft and I had to disconnect the handbrake cable to get an extra couple of mm, plus remove the filler cap. If the prop was fixed to the gearbox I am not sure it would come out .....

Last year I had had to replace the damaged sender cable that runs through the sill, so I put a 3 core instead of the original 2 core - just in case I decide to retrofit an electric pump. Otherwise, the new cable feeds a non original furgoncino fuel sender (it is std Appia) because the original never came with the car - one of a surprising short list of lost pieces.

Next to the fuel filler cap you can see the breather pipe that fits across the top of the tank, forms a loop on then vents at the side of the tank


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 24 April, 2016, 07:40:15 PM
Rear lights for "LANCIA" .....

Carello codes are as follows:

Rubber : 12.327.505
Chrome frame : 12.630.135
Lens : 126 TO

Although these appear to be the original lights, when you fit them, the lenses are sideways - ie the writing on the lens is not top and bottom.

My lenses are new, so I wonder if there was another option with holes in different places ????

When I fit mine I plan to file 2 more grooves on the body so that I can fit the lights the correct way up and if I find the "correct" lenses then I can rotate the frame(s)

Maybe they were always sideways ....... who knows ?

Distance from the bottom of light aperture to bottom of the body is approx 15.4cms


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: LANCIA on 24 April, 2016, 09:44:05 PM
GRAZIE SIMON MI SEI DI GRANDE AIUTO.............GRAZIE.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: LANCIA on 24 April, 2016, 09:49:31 PM
DOVE HAI TROVATOI FANALINI POSTERIORI ?    VORREI ACQUISTARE ANCHE    IO UNA COPPIA.  IO  HO TROVATO QUESTI ....SONO COME I TUOI ?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 06 May, 2016, 04:53:07 PM
"LANCIA" - I have sent you a separate email, my lights came with the car

More progress this week, in between other things I have done a trial fit of engine/gearbox on the bench and then this afternoon fitted the box to the van.

I have shown a few detailed pictures of the clutch mechanism. As with my 3rd series and Aprilia, I fit the clutch to the gearbox and then once the engine is in place, bolt the clutch cover to the flywheel. This is what Andy was talking about on his post .

What I don't know, is how easy it is to fit the engine afterwards - having only fitted the engine/box as a unit before. Time will tell

I have fitted all the propshaft bolts but not finished the split pins, just in case it all has to come off again .......

I reckon that my car-lift paid for itself today, fitting the box and prop have been so easy, still takes time, but very straightforward. The long piece of wood at the back of the box was to hold the back up whilst I climbed a ladder and fitted the through bolt !

I might try and make an engine test rig next week, it would be good to run the engine before I fit it



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 06 May, 2016, 05:07:46 PM
Top marks again Simon, great to see it all coming together


P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: LANCIA on 06 May, 2016, 07:12:22 PM
CIAO SIMON , SE POSSO SUGGERIRTI IL PIATTO MOLLE LO DEVI MONTARE VICINO AL VOLANO  CON IL DISCO FRIZIONE  ED UN CENTRATORE PER FRIZIONI    E POI INSERISCI IL CAMBIO E LA FORCELLA PER ULTIMA CO IL SUO BULLONE DA   11-  12.   IO SULLA VETTURA HO MONTATO MOTORE E CAMBIO UNITI.  HO TOLTO L'AVANTRENO........E LO HO FATTO SALIRE DA SOTTO. 


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 07 May, 2016, 09:13:23 AM
Must be very satisfying watching it all build back up. The engine looks tiny compared to the gearbox. Lovely little thing.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 10 May, 2016, 01:06:26 PM
Thanks everyone

I am sure that most people are aware that the furgoncinos( and camioncinos and I think Jolly's) have a 5 speed box unlike all other Appias. The 4 speed box is identical (?) in size to the 5 and is part of the reason that there are so few vans/pickups left. A number were supposedly scrapped just for their 'box which was then swapped for the 4-speed

I am getting around to fitting the screen but have not yet found a screen rubber - can anyone help ???? Please ?????

Will post photos as I have them !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: LANCIA on 10 May, 2016, 06:34:47 PM
 SI' E' VERO ,   HO UN CAMBIO 5 MARCE JOLLY      SIGLA   809.00.........   HA GLI STESSI RAPPORTI DEL FURGONCINO E CAMIONCINO SECONDA SERIE.      VAI A VEDERE SU   ( WIKIPEDIA LANCIA APPIA FURGONCINO)


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: the.cern on 10 May, 2016, 08:51:29 PM
Hello Simon, Cicognani list Appia cars on their site, but I am not sure if the furgoncino screen is the same as the cars!!! I am sure though that you know the answer to that!!

I am currently  looking to swap the gearbox in my car as it seems likely that is the source of my tapping/knocking noise ..... so if you know of a nice 5 speed box that would be helpful!!!

Thank you for continuing to post so much regarding your work on your cars .... both inspirational as well as informative!!!

                          Andy


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 11 May, 2016, 05:38:18 AM
Thanks Andy, I am in discussion with Cicognani at the moment about maybe having one made because they are indeed bigger - the screen is taller.

I think that the profile is the same as S1, but I need to check this further. Unfortunately , my Promiscuo screen rubber was destroyed taking the screen out - the rubber goes so hard the only safe way to protect the (irreplaceable) glass was to cut it out.

DiKappa has kindly offered to remove his screen , but would have to do the same !

There's a nice , modified 5 speed 'box on eBay at the moment for just under 4000 euros ......


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: LANCIA on 11 May, 2016, 10:44:50 AM
CIAO IO HO UN CAMBIO 5 VELOCITA' PER JOLLY...............IL PARABREZZA SERIE 1 E' PIU' BASSO DI QUELLO DEL FURGONE.   CICOGNANI TI FARA' LA GUARNIZIONE SU MISURA.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 12 May, 2016, 01:35:44 PM
Thanks, we are currently looking at having some screen rubbers made - if any one else wants on , let us know asap !

Couple of detail bits, first, and thanks to Jim and the Appia Cosortium,  the pinch bolt for the handbrake - which now works extremely well !  The thread is actually M8 std not fine as first thought. However I did find a suitable 14mm nut for it.

Second the indicator cancelling system. It consists of a pair of "cats ears" on a clamp that is fitted to the steering column. NB the bolt is above the cancelling unit , if not the bolt fouls the pivot instead of the ears. It has to be fitted carefully to get the ears and pivot lined up without the bolt catching

I fitted a 1mm rubber cuff under the clamp to it grips the steering column, otherwise it was too big. Wires are 54 , A and B

Third, I cleaned up the aluminium frame that fits around the screen aperture and did a trial fit using the tiniest of self-tappers (1/4 2's for ref). The originals were slotted screws whereas most of the rest had moved onto to Phillips, so I have used slotted screws


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 15 May, 2016, 05:24:38 PM

Been out of touch with this the last month or so.  Other than the obvious "lift envy" the induction heater REALLY seems to have done "what it said on the tin".  Any more thoughts vs a flame?

What was most impressive is the attention to detail on the under-seal.  Where did you find out about that system or was it a case of taking Martin's advice and then looking for similar?  Still pleased with it?

Fitting the steering so carefully must have been satisfying.  One of those jobs where its not just the look of it but something tactile.  The quantity of oil in the back axle was a surprise.

David


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 15 May, 2016, 05:39:58 PM

Pleased with the lathe?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 24 May, 2016, 08:10:06 PM
David, the lift is fantastic, everything is much more accessible and comfortable - so much better for my aging bones (I'm only 51 so I shouldn't complain ....) plus it means that I can squeeze another vehicle into the garage !

The induction heater doesn't get much use, but when it does it is very efficient. Vs a flame, I can't see a downside when used in situ. It is completely safe, very localised and no risk to paintwork. It takes a while to penetrate bolts because it is so localised, but with repeated use it does heat the length of the bolt. The rear-spring bolts were a pain, but the air punches were excellent, much better than a hammer (sorry Harry).

The underseal is not the 2-pack 3M product, I could not find it at an acceptable price. I ended up buying a "Wayside" product along with the gun, which can also be used for seam sealant etc. The only problem was that I chose the wrong colour so have had to paint it before (black) waxoyl-ing which gives the same mat finish as the original. As always there is a you-tube video to show how to use it.

The volume of oil in the axle was a surprise - more so that it is all still there after a month, the hermetite on the threads has worked a treat - no drips

And the lathe ....... not much to report on that one, very little use due to one thing and another !

But this weekend's "vide-grenier" turned up a very nice pillar jack that fits and looks the part - just needs to be painted blue, as per the Consortium furgoncino jack (first photo)
The furgoncino jacks seem to be hen's teeth, so until I find one, this will do

I also found a couple of nicely patinated "Michelin" tyre pressure charts from the late '60's and early '70's. They cover Flaminia to 2000 - they were NOT 5 euros each !!!!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 28 May, 2016, 08:14:30 PM
First time in ages that I have had a proper day in the garage ......

Getting the engine ready to test/fit so I have been working on the ancillaries. The coil was stripped and cleaned, along with distributor, water pump, dynamo and starter motor.

The later have been stripped and cleaned but not re-assembled yet, but the distributor has been refitted and timed. Slight problem in that the distributor drive was 180° out so that took a few minutes to remove and fit correctly.

The water pump has 2 gaskets (there is an aluminium spacer) so the rubber gasket fits between the spacer and the pump and the paper gasket between the spacer and engine.

Lots of bits for each unit, fortunately non left once they went back together ....

The coil has a ballast resistor, which I'm pretty sure was original, so it has all be cleaned and refitted. The original label has cleaned up nicely

I sprayed up a couple of rocker covers just for the photos because everything else looked so clean ...... they will be replaced with newly crackled covers once the engine is in place - they tend to get a bashing when it all goes back together !

Hopefully a test and fit this week ?????


 


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: LANCIA on 31 May, 2016, 07:04:28 PM
CIAO SIMON TI HO CONTATTATO SULLA TUA MAIL ,PER I FONDI FURGONCINO...............?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 31 May, 2016, 08:02:10 PM
Ciao LANCIA ,vi ho inviato un messaggio ...

The dynamo and starter motor are back together and re-fitted. I am waiting on some carb parts to arrive from Italy and some oil from Penrite, then I can have a go at starting the engine .....plus here's an excuse for some engine photos

It is very difficult to buy 20W50 from motor factors here, they look at you as if you have walked in from planet Zarg !

I have found an oil pressure gauge to fit directly to the oil pressure pipe, I have a downpipe - just need to sort out the carb and some cooling

 A final photo of the induction heater being used to remove the dynamo pulley. It is sooooo fragile - half the weight of a Fulvia - but with 1 min's heating and with the lightest touch it fell apart


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 01 June, 2016, 12:29:24 AM

That heater is starting to be THE toy I envy...


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancianut666 on 01 June, 2016, 08:20:41 AM
Hmmm...sounds as if Simon is tempted to start that engine up on the bench....the tension...the expectation...the whirr whirr of that puny starter...the first cough of life....that powerful roar of the mighty V4...the screams...the shouts....the sight of the mighty V4 bouncing out of the garage door...hope he sets up a video camera for us..
Clarkey


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: the.cern on 01 June, 2016, 10:17:37 AM

That heater is starting to be THE toy I envy...

David, you are the only person I know that gets 'toy envy' ........ apart from me that is!!!!!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 01 June, 2016, 10:44:36 AM
I've got 'fan envy'. Love that front view of the engine with that beautiful aircraft style prop. Could only be improved by WW1 style varnished wooden one. I'm surprised Lancia didn't make it variable pitch.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 01 June, 2016, 07:22:10 PM
All the Appia castings are lovely .... very tactile and would deserve a place in any art gallery !

Jim is correct, I am planning to start the engine out of the car - but on the floor , not on the bench.

Allegedly (!) they are very stable when running, so worth a try.

I will be holding on to the engine at first so may not be able to record the shenanigans . Maybe I will ask Dog to lend a hand - but then , how to upload a video ? That is probably beyond my technical skills


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - engine test 1
Post by: simonandjuliet on 06 June, 2016, 02:34:20 PM
Mic Comber (Portuguese Aprilia) has been staying with us and has raided my shelves for bits for his and another Portuguese Aprilia ..... whilst here we turned over the Appia engine with a view to getting oil pressure registering

With the starter motor connected to the battery via jump leads and an extra wire to the solenoid it turned over very easily, blowing the "protective" bungs out of the plug holes.

After a few seconds the oil pressure gauge , which came from a spare speedo unit, started to register - so first hurdle achieved .....

Still waiting on the carb parts


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancianut666 on 07 June, 2016, 06:51:31 AM
Pity you do not have an engine stand then you would be OK


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancianut666 on 07 June, 2016, 07:03:25 AM
just a thought is worth checking the compression before it goes back in the car? a certain person we know had to remove his engine and fettle a sticking valve then put it all back in...bit of a chore


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - Exhaust system
Post by: simonandjuliet on 14 June, 2016, 04:11:06 PM
Thanks Jim, will probably give it a test, although the bungs do fly across the garage when turning it over.

While I am waiting on some bits, I have started looking at the exhaust system. It is quite different to the saloon system, and not just because the "chassis" is longer (I think - I will check .....). There is a much smoother kick over the back axle, the boxes are in different places as are the hangers (nb the rear set of hangers are not shown on the TAV - they are shorter than the set in the middle) and the middle box slopes up alongside the battery box.

I know that a saloon system can be made to fit (viz Appia Consortium van) but I think I will make a correct one. I have what looks like an original one to copy, so it's a good start. If I fit a "slave" engine ie crankcase and head bolted to the gearbox) , I can easily offer it up before a definitive fit is done.

Plan is to stay with mild steel and use the standard saloon downpipe, cut down since it appears to be the same as the furgoncino pipe, just longer - the important bends are the same. These are readily available for reasonable money

If anyone is interested, I can make 2 ........


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancianut666 on 15 June, 2016, 02:46:03 PM
Hmmm... so did the bungs in my sparkplug holes... mind you the squirt of oil up the oil pressure gauge pipe and all over the kitchen ceiling was impressive (Matron was so dumbfounded she could not speak)
Clarkey


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: LANCIA on 15 June, 2016, 07:19:42 PM
CIAO SIMON HAI FOTO DI MARMITTE IN VENDITA PER FURGONCINO O MARMITTE APPIA CHE SI ADATTANO ?    QUALE FORNITORE MI PUOI INDICARE ?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 15 June, 2016, 07:33:54 PM
I have not made the system yet, I am meeting with someone tomorrow. The downpipe (next to manifold) that I have fitted to the 3rd series is very good, so it makes sense to use the same one - it came from a German company advertising on eBay and cost £50 delivered

Non ho ancora realizzato il sistema, mi viene incontro con qualcuno domani. Il downpipe (accanto al collettore) che ho montato sul 3 ° serie è molto buono, quindi ha senso usare la stessa - è venuto da una pubblicità società tedesca su eBay e costa £ 50 consegnati


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - Exhaust system
Post by: simonandjuliet on 17 June, 2016, 07:44:16 PM
I spoke with the exhaust maker today and I am going to make 3 systems, each made to fit my furgoncino and using the pre-bought and shortened downpipe. These are all "sold" so if anyone else is interested, please let me know and I can discuss prices and spec

They will be mild steel (my preference - but stainless is also an option)



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 02 July, 2016, 04:16:55 PM
In preparation for the exhaust build, I cleaned up an old crankcase, block and cylinder head and fitted an empty engine, it was much easier to fit (in bits) than a complete engine and it gives a bit more room to work around it

On a LHD car there is not a lot of room at the side of the engine - the column, column shift, brakes etc leave it very tight. Hence my decision to stick with a "known" downpipe that fits neatly and is available off the shelf.

More later .......

ps I have a new camera (phone) so hope the pictures are better !



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: LANCIA on 02 July, 2016, 08:19:16 PM
Ciao Simon hai ricevuto il mio pacco ?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 28 July, 2016, 07:03:42 AM
We have had new windscreen and rear-door rubbers remade for the furgoncino/camioncino - well done to Koen and Gerhard for making it happen !

Means that I can fit the screen now ........


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: davidwheeler on 03 August, 2016, 09:34:24 AM
In preparation for the exhaust build, I cleaned up an old crankcase, block and cylinder head and fitted an empty engine, it was much easier to fit (in bits) than a complete engine and it gives a bit more room to work around it

On a LHD car there is not a lot of room at the side of the engine - the column, column shift, brakes etc leave it very tight. Hence my decision to stick with a "known" downpipe that fits neatly and is available off the shelf.

More later .......

ps I have a new camera (phone) so hope the pictures are better !


Reminds me of the Hungarian Hollywood producer (I forget who) who, when requesting riderless steeds said "bring on the empty horses".


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: John B on 03 August, 2016, 02:28:07 PM
I thought that saying (also the title of David Nivens autobiography) was by  Cecil B de Mille.....
but I may be wrong.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: JohnMillham on 03 August, 2016, 03:14:10 PM
said by Michael Curtiz, I think.
Regards, John


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: John B on 03 August, 2016, 07:50:54 PM
said by Michael Curtiz, I think.
Regards, John

Yes.........I was wrong  :(


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: frankxhv773t on 05 August, 2016, 07:05:11 PM
I have just seen your photos with the new camera (phone). They look superb.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 06 August, 2016, 07:33:50 AM
Thanks, I am still no photographer, but this is much better ..... I am late into 'phone technology, but it seems that you don't need a compact camera anymore.

DSLR - now that's a different question

Photo of the window roller that I am after for the Cabrio showing my (phone's !) improved abilities

ps still miss my old K1000


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: frankxhv773t on 07 August, 2016, 07:16:50 PM
Absolutely, shutter speed, aperture, focus; what more do you need? Well, OK, aperture priority auto and shutter speed priority auto are a boon but the Canon D600 I am using has 14 different modes just on what would be the shutter speed dial. That's without the 22 other buttons, knobs and switches.

It's a bit like modern cars really.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - fitting windscreen
Post by: simonandjuliet on 15 September, 2016, 07:19:03 PM
Can't believe that I haven't posted for a month ..... always the daftest time of the year for us

Sorry if I have promised something and it is late !!

Finally had a couple of hours in the garage today, and Dog has been doing some welding as well (see Aprilia Cabrio)

In between Aprilia panel fitting, I fitted the front screen to the Appia. Along with Gerhard and Koen we have had new furgoncino screen rubbers remade and I have at last had a chance to fit mine. I decided to fit the aluminium surround with dumdum putty - I had toyed with the idea of tigerseal but decided against.

It is a bit like linseed putty and once the frame was fitted and screwed in I cut the ends off the (tiny) screws with a Dremel so as not to risk damage to the inner seal

It took 2 goes to fit the screen, first time we fitted the bottom of the screen and then tried to pull in the top , but it didn't fit right, so we tried the top first and it was much better

The new rubbers are very flexible and allowed the screen to be moved and wriggled once in place,then I fitted the filler strip using a "special tool" - a diamond-shaped-tipped-screwdriver-type thing ....

Very happy with the result and it means that I can now start putting the dash/interior back together

ps I have not cut the final piece of filler strip yet because it may still shrink after fitting, so plan to leave for a few days before final trim

I have set a line in the sand for the furgoncino to be finished - I like targets - Sliding Pillar 2017 .........


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: LANCIA on 15 September, 2016, 07:42:51 PM
ciao SIMON   MESSAGGI PER TE    DA LANCIA   SU E- MAIL..........


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 15 September, 2016, 08:02:24 PM
Can't believe that I haven't posted for a month ..... always the daftest time of the year for us

Sorry if I have promised something and it is late !!

Finally had a couple of hours in the garage today, and Dog has been doing some welding as well (see Aprilia Cabrio)

In between Aprilia panel fitting, I fitted the front screen to the Appia. Along with Gerhard and Koen we have had new furgoncino screen rubbers remade and I have at last had a chance to fit mine. I decided to fit the aluminium surround with dumdum putty - I had toyed with the idea of tigerseal but decided against.

It is a bit like linseed putty and once the frame was fitted and screwed in I cut the ends off the (tiny) screws with a Dremel so as not to risk damage to the inner seal

It took 2 goes to fit the screen, first time we fitted the bottom of the screen and then tried to pull in the top , but it didn't fit right, so we tried the top first and it was much better

The new rubbers are very flexible and allowed the screen to be moved and wriggled once in place,then I fitted the filler strip using a "special tool" - a diamond-shaped-tipped-screwdriver-type thing ....

Very happy with the result and it means that I can now start putting the dash/interior back together

ps I have not cut the final piece of filler strip yet because it may still shrink after fitting, so plan to leave for a few days before final trim

I have set a line in the sand for the furgoncino to be finished - I like targets - Sliding Pillar 2017 .........
and cut it fractionally long to make the but joint but....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 05 November, 2016, 11:54:12 AM
I have been pottering whenever there's been a few minutes and the dash is coming together - too many details to list but includes:

  • Stripping cleaning and new mounting rubbers for wiper motor - the new rubbers are tap washers with bigger holes stamped in them and short pieces of 8mm copper petrol pipe
    Washers stripped , cleaned and polished, new pipes etc
    All dash wiring connected to slave battery and checked
    Switches cleaned
    Dash cleaned front and back
    Air vents removed, stripped and repainted before refit - no-one will ever see these because they are hidden behind lovely crackle finish covers !
    Waxoyl on all hidden surfaces - I am not repainting any of the interior unless absolutely necessary so as to retain the patina plus sprayed down cabin vent conduits
    Supertrol injected into the scuttle via the bonnet-hinge holes - this stays liquid and slops around until it finds its way into all the low points
    Lighting and indicator circuits tested (need to carefully strip the indicator switch)
    Rear loom connected and checked
    Glove compartment re-lined using Aprilia headlining cloth
    All threads cleaned and retapped
    All bolts and screws cleaned and "copperslipped"
    Front wings undersealed using the textured sealant
    Etc etc

Next is to refit the bulkhead insulation and rubber mat before the dash goes back in. Plus hopefully the exhaust will be built next week .....




Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 05 November, 2016, 11:56:29 AM
more .....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 05 November, 2016, 12:29:54 PM
Looking good!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: the.cern on 05 November, 2016, 05:10:24 PM
You really have been having fun haven't you!!!! It all looks excellent and it sounds as though the Aprilia cabriolet has been chugging along in the background with help from Dog.

One question, what are you using for the bulkhead insulation? I cannot decide whether to go for the old fashioned felt or one of the new foil lined types, of which there seems to be many.

                                      Andy


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 05 November, 2016, 07:24:14 PM

Yum!!!

I particularly liked the home made bushes.  What's the foam to seal the air vents?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 05 November, 2016, 07:49:14 PM

That rubber mallet.  Is it an odd angle, or it been shaped, or it broke, or is that WEAR on it...


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 05 November, 2016, 08:27:04 PM
Now you mention, I like the coffee mug! Close up please!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 06 November, 2016, 01:51:07 PM
To answer some of the points raised .....

I use felt, it can absorb water though, but I like the "give" that you get under rubber mats, feels more comfortable - I usually buy it from Woolies

The foam seal on the vents is a closed cell, self-adhesive foam rubber that is dirt-cheap (60p/m) and is very easy to cut to size. It gives a good waterproof seal around doors etc - size = 5x15 mm (but available in other sizes), 10m rolls

Closer picture of garage mug , plus some other favourite garage mugs !!! Middle one was a compilation of Mathilda's classmates a few years ago - I'm sure we all have our favourites !

Mallet is well used - Harry would be happy, because he would have (just about !) let you use a rubber hammer

Last picture shows the glove box liner back in


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - Dashboard
Post by: simonandjuliet on 09 November, 2016, 01:35:13 PM
I've had a couple of days to "play" this week and set out to finish the bulkhead and fit the dash ....

First up, clean the rubber mat and patch in the felt on the bulkhead. The mat came up very nicely and I finished it off with a rubber cleaner/feed . I have refitted it exactly as it was, that's to say, not perfectly !

Around the handbrake it overlaps the base and has split slightly. The only change was to redrill one screw hole for the RH vent because the cover fouled the lever slightly

The glove box was refitted using the lovely split pins, that you may be able to see, it closes with a satisfying click !

Next up was to sort out the "Scary Movie" pedals, first cut out the felt around the holes so the rubber "eyes" could be glued in place before a felt cutout was replaced. A modification I made was to add a seal around the brake cover , hopefully to reduce water ingress - we'll see !

Once done, the rest of the underlay felt was fitted (black side up this time), not forgetting the ears to allow access to the gearbox bolt.

Before final fitting of the dash, the heater pipes were re-fitted and the heater reattached followed by the "T" piece for the washers. There is a tiny non-return valve that fits just before the T, fitting was done by heating the tube with the paint stripper gun and pushed in with a screwdriver, then held in place with the clip

The indicator switch is a work of art and I took to pieces because it was sticky ....... and tricky ! Full of small brass plates and springs all wanting to escape. Putting it back together I used the watch-battery technique - ie held the bits in place with slippy paper and once in position the paper was pulled out

The plate on the top hides the bulb

Other details (too many to list) and then the dash went in and speedo refitted

To my mind, it looks nicely patinated, albeit very clean !
 


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - Dashboard
Post by: simonandjuliet on 09 November, 2016, 01:40:09 PM
More .....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 09 November, 2016, 02:09:20 PM
Lovely Simon, coming together so nicely, not long now til the champagne cork is popped?!


P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 09 November, 2016, 02:17:36 PM
Looks lovely in that last shot with the smart black floor and that cream dash panel. How did you do the crackle finish on the vent - using an aerosol paint? Did you heat in in the oven first or anything like that?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - front wings
Post by: simonandjuliet on 10 November, 2016, 03:23:32 PM
Stan, they are the original covers, just cleaned up. The crackle finish out of the can does work very well though

First picture demonstrates why these poor little cars rusted so badly around the A post, not only is there a narrow mud trap behind the wheels but on the inside they have these padded bags stuffed into the corners, inside the bodyshell - and they are super absorbent ! Just like putting a damp sponge on bare metal for 50 years .....

The bulkhead mat was near perfect however the tunnel mat was badly split but mostly intact and very dirty, so once cleaned I spent quite a while gluing all the tears with superglue (only glued my fingers to the mat once) and then I made a "sticking plaster" repair for the back which I glued on. I used black stretchy vinyl , as used for interiors, because it is very thin, flexible and I had some ....

Protected with the rubber conditioner and looks much better. I do have a set of aftermarket floor rubbers for an Appia, but the floors and tunnel are very different on the furgoncino - same panel pressing but with wider and longer flanges - so they are useless !

Unless I can find 2 front floor mats somewhere I may consider making a set of carpets - not original but would look good until I find the correct mats

The front wings have gone back on definitively, with all the edges waxoyled , dumdum sealed and new rubbers made up for the front edges. If you don't have the correct thickness here the grill doesn't fit correctly.

Beginning to look like a real car !





Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 10 November, 2016, 03:53:20 PM

Great job on the rubber mat...


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 10 November, 2016, 04:52:40 PM
Looking great - it's got its face back. I don't think I've ever heard of padded bags in any restoration of a car I've read about or seen. What was the idea of them? Imagine taking it over to the UK and the customs men finding them...............


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 10 November, 2016, 06:53:50 PM
I am really looking forward to seeing the finished furgoncino on the Siding Pillar Rally........ I am even more interested to see the cargo!  ;)
For the floor mats why don't you use coir matting, it has a very workman like appearance, very suitable for a van. It is also very easy to cut to fit and is available in black if you don't want the naturel coloured finish.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: frankxhv773t on 13 November, 2016, 09:25:22 PM
Whilst looking around at the NEC I noticed trim retailers offering ribbed black rubber floor matting. Although it wouldn't have the correct edge moulding it might provide a superficially similar finish to the original matts.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 14 November, 2016, 04:55:56 PM
Thanks
I have some thin matting that I bought from Woolies but it isn't great, so if I could find something more robust it is an option

I have been refitting the interior today and am now "high as a kite" because I have spent all afternoon gluing trim !

Once everything was thoroughly cleaned it has been slowly put back. It was all very dirty but completely usable, the only real issue has been that it all came in a bundle with the car, so I wasn't sure exactly what went where .....

The worst piece was the trim that was fitted to a panel on the bulkhead behind the seat back, it had badly shrunk, so once cleaned, I heated the vinyl with a heat gun and stretched it back over the panel before gluing the panel in place. It is finished off with a delicate aluminium trim around the top.

The photos show the rest but it is really good to see the headlining back in as well, it is a bit dirty still because I just can't risk anything too brutal. Like the rest of the interior it has a nice aged feel to it

If anyone wants anymore detailed pictures , please let me know, but I will take some "sexy" photos once it is all finished and looking fab !



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 14 November, 2016, 05:24:36 PM
Very nicely trimmed door shuts for a commercial.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 14 November, 2016, 06:02:33 PM
Wow - use of dinning room table, a bottle of wine, decanter, and spittoon. That's the way to work!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 15 November, 2016, 09:20:02 AM
Don't forget the tolerant wife .....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 15 November, 2016, 10:35:52 AM
Thought she might have been away but clearly not - yes very tolerant in that case.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: tzf60 on 15 November, 2016, 03:42:49 PM
Hi Simon!
Keep posting the photos - they are full of terrific details! The more the merrier! The Appia is looking great!
 
I hadn't noticed the spittoon.....!!!
 
Best wishes,
Tim


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 15 November, 2016, 04:14:24 PM
It isn't actually a spittoon - it's the dirty water from washing the headlining !!

A couple of pictures of the next stage and a request for help ......

Next up are the headlamps, the bowls/rubbers are in amazing condition and I have a decent set of chrome rims, but the headlamps are a bit faded - but will pass the CT (MOT) however I would like a REALLY good set

Does anyone have a pair of Carello 00.506.700 8S - I think the 8S is the bulb mount type

My chrome retaining rings are fair/good - any really good ones for sale ?

Last - I don't have the weatherseal that fits around the retaining rims - anyone ??

If all else fails , I will have to get my spare set re-silvered, but they are crimped glasses and may be difficult. Again anyone got a recommendation ?

Thanks and sorry for all the requests !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: chriswgawne on 16 November, 2016, 05:24:42 AM
What is the diameter of the lights Simon? I am pretty sure I have new Carello glasses and also headlight units for B20/B24.
Chris


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 16 November, 2016, 07:47:59 AM
Thanks Chris
They are 170 mm and the lights are located using 3 lugs on the back - let me know if you want a clearer picture - the B20 light that I have on the shelf has a large Carello script across the middle, not the bottom like all my Appia ones


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 16 November, 2016, 06:13:36 PM
Some scary prices for new lamps (Germany , I think) and a very slightly less scary price to re-silver mine, so still looking for a really good original pair of lamps ......

Dog popped round to help me do a final trial fit of doors and bonnet. Fitting the doors is very worrying because the tolerance is so tight and there is no way that you can risk it on your own - once fitted and open there is literally a fingernail width between the leading edge and the wing !

Now removed again so I can finish fitting the door seals


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 16 November, 2016, 08:24:18 PM
Simon, go on shock us!!!!

Had the same when hunting for parts for B12, but lucky to source quite a few for a fraction of what dealers wanted.

Keep up the good work.

P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 17 November, 2016, 05:02:00 PM
I have bought a set of repro lights in Italy to get through the MOT and then it gives me more time to decide the best route - good , old or re-silvered. The repro were a reasonable 120 euros the pair and won't be wasted, they will also fit the "Everyday Appia"

Actually, Juliet will be pleased because when she drives her Appia at night she does it by feel - the lights are not brilliant !

Back to the furgoncino, I have been playing with the lights and getting the conduits for the wires sorted. Lots of detail and has taken a while .....

Firstly, the 2 headlamp bowls are slightly different and there is no reason to suspect that they haven't always been so. They have the same part number by Carello but one bowl has a wider base for the mounting bolts and so the backing rubbers are not interchangeable. One is wider and more "rubbery" - they do have different part numbers. 

I suspect this was a "parts-bin" lottery

The rubbers that fit into the back of the bowl are quite perished, but are important because they hold the wires with female connectors that come from the bulb holder, the male bullet terminals from the loom fit into the back of the unit. The rest of the loom is routed through brass elbows and chromed "T" pieces. I found some clear, blue tube to use as conduit, I just had to rub off the modern batch writing on them

I have still to find a way of sealing the wires where they go into the back of the headlamp bowl, whatever was there has completely disintegrated so I have no reference

The elbow fits very neatly into the side light rubber, there is a flange to retain it. Once the wheel is back on I will have to see if it touches the tyre, if so I will need a discreet tie-back

Whilst under the wing I have trial fitted the bumper brackets - 2 pieces per side. The green one bolts to the wing and the black one fits through the eye and bolts to the bumper

The bumper is in remarkable condition considering it sat in a field for 40 years (as did the grill ....) Neither needs re-chroming. The headlamp bezels have been replaced though and will need a slight mod to fit correctly because I think that they are 1st series, not 2nd

I need a small repair on the white bumper rubber on 1 side, but DiKappa was good enough to send me a short piece so I can make the repair - Thanks Koen !

Lastly, a couple of pictures with the bumper and lights (RHS only !) in place - I love the star-burst effect of the side light !

Finally, finally getting the exhaust made on Saturday .........



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 17 November, 2016, 05:03:30 PM
More ....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 17 November, 2016, 05:49:59 PM
Nice neat stuff as usual. That sidelight is superb! What a great effect.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: frankxhv773t on 17 November, 2016, 07:02:37 PM
A side light with eye lashes. How lovely.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 18 November, 2016, 10:13:33 AM

Those sidelights are such a lovely thing...


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 18 November, 2016, 11:00:12 AM
Just thought what it reminds me of - those plastic teardrop shaped bike lights that were around when Iwas a kid. They had nicely patterned lenses.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 19 November, 2016, 05:34:43 PM
Once all the lights are on it will look lovely !

However, big step forward today. Exhaust made and fitted .....

This has been a major headache.  Down here , in the back-end of nowhere, we have very few options for bespoke exhausts. The interweb can't help because no-one has a furgoncino exhaust on their books and I can't get the car to "exhausts-R-us" without a flatbed, so I was lucky to find a local lad who makes systems.

Usually he makes them for wide-boy, big-bore enthusiasts, so today was a bit more down to earth !

The boxes are bespoke and the acute angles use pre-formed pieces all beautifully TIG welded. The rest of the kinks are formed with an ancient pipe-bender. End result is excellent. Fits perfectly , and looks really good.

I had to go for stainless in the end because of the availability of the large bore tube used for the boxes. Because of the wine industry here we have LOTS of stainless.

Next is to take it off again so the engine can go in ........



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 19 November, 2016, 10:37:25 PM
Excellent. I cant wait to hear what it sounds like!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 21 November, 2016, 03:43:24 PM
Tim, might even have the engine in by the time you get here ......

Please excuse the staged picture - I wanted to get an idea how different the new repro headlamps (with yellow bulbs) look from the originals

Plus of course her UK registration number !

(I have just added a photo of her as found languishing in a field near Aosta .....)


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Neil on 21 November, 2016, 05:45:23 PM
Looks great, somewhat different when I last saw it in Alan's workshop in Devon in 2008, are you going to replicate the red stripe on the front, for trade purposes, not sure it would apply in France?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 21 November, 2016, 06:44:41 PM
It actually looks sad in the Aosta photo. Looks much perkier now, even with different coloured eyes.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 21 November, 2016, 08:07:20 PM
Neil, you were probably there about the same time the first photo was taken ....

Re "red stripes" - I plan to repaint the stripes, both front and back as they were when found. Doesn't apply here, but I like them ! Some vehicles had white stripes and apart from being the name of a very good band, I think they had a slightly different meaning - something to do with different taxation/customs ?? I am sure someone will tell us !

Stan, I quite like the "Bowie" effect .... but "les flics" won't, so I am going yellow





Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: mikeC on 22 November, 2016, 08:45:57 AM
I believe the red stripe allowed the owner to drive the vehicle for commercial use; the white stripe allowed employees to drive.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 23 November, 2016, 05:26:52 PM
I found this delightful answer on a truckers forum .....
Quote

Postby giemmegi » Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:52 pm
well the white stripes means "conto terzi" and for me it's hard to explain, i try:
A transport operator hauling load produced by another company (a really transport company).
Red stripes means "conto proprio" a non-transport company that own a fleet of truck hauling ONLY his products.
The blue stripes means local transport less 50 km trip.
I hope you understand


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: peteracs on 23 November, 2016, 05:36:49 PM
Hi Simon

So that means that you can only move your wine with it I guess....

Peter


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 24 November, 2016, 06:54:36 PM
Peter - that's the plan .....

I've had a busy day today (it's been raining !) and done a variety of things

First up was to finish fitting the sidelights and headlamps. Going with new lamps for the time being and I have found some new retaining rings and seals on an Alfa website. Still looking for new reflectors though. The obvious idea is to buy some cheap units, smash and remove the glass and glue in my lenses , but it has to be possible to buy the reflectors .....

Next was to repair the bumper rubber. I glued in a new piece with white Sikaflex and made new retaining bolts for the end clamps. I removed and painted the irons, then cleaned the back of the bumper, "painted" it with black waxoyl because it was too good to strip and repaint - it needs protecting anyway !

Refitted,polished and looks great

I had a small leak on one front wheel cylindre and despite cleaning up with a hone, still had a seep so I phoned Cavalitto yesterday and had a new one delivered today - which I fitted. They are repro units made from aluminium instead of the original iron, but it was complete with seals and pistons and very reasonably priced.

Typical - I have a spare , but it is for the other side - C'est la vie !

Finally, I decided to fit the engine rather than try starting it on the floor. It only took 44 minutes and 57 seconds from picking it up from the bench to having it resting on its engine mounts !

I have fitted a few Appia engines now and decided to try a different approach. I removed the engine mountings (because I find that it is these that foul) jacked up the front of the 'box and then dropped the engine in. Because there were no mountings there was a lot more wriggle-room and it was a doddle - I would definitely do it this way again ( ie 'box in situ , mountings off, fit engine, reconnect mountings then clutch etc).
NB don't forget the engine earth strap !

Tomorrow's job is to get a working carb from all the bits in the picture and then see if we can start the engine, but I have an appointment with the compost-man so it may have to wait until next week !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: SanRemo78 on 24 November, 2016, 10:12:53 PM
First up was to finish fitting the sidelights and headlamps. Going with new lamps for the time being and I have found some new retaining rings and seals on an Alfa website. Still looking for new reflectors though. The obvious idea is to buy some cheap units, smash and remove the glass and glue in my lenses , but it has to be possible to buy the reflectors .....

Apart from the cost are these any good?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LANCIA-APPIA-VIGNALE-CONVERTIBILE-AURELIA-FARI-HEADLIGHTS-CARELLO-/162187888316?hash=item25c326c6bc:g:KosAAOSwvzRXx~5Z

Love this thread - and any similar long term restoration story - What happened to the South London Sport?

Guy


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 25 November, 2016, 07:38:49 AM
Thanks Guy, I had spotted these however they are early lamps used on the S1 furgoncinos ,I think. They are beautiful though !

I have had a couple of emails suggesting sources for the reflectors, one person saying that he bought a pair at Padova, so I can use that as an excuse to go next year ...... Mathilda is keen to go as well

ps the German lights referred to earlier were significantly more expensive than these


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 25 November, 2016, 12:08:04 PM

South London Sport is progressing at the same rate as before - nil...


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: the.cern on 25 November, 2016, 12:32:54 PM
....... but David, the important thing is that you still have it secure on your drive and it is not deteriorating!!!! Your day will come, I just hope you don't have to wait as long as I did!!!!

                                  Andy


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - Carburetor
Post by: simonandjuliet on 25 November, 2016, 04:55:37 PM
And it is a lovely piece of artwork to have on the drive

Carburetors !

And what do all the sizes mean ? But I'll come back to that ....

Appias have 2 types of Solexes fitted (there are some Weber set ups on PF coupes etc), early cars and most furgoncinos/camioncinos have the 32/30 BI or BIC fitted. This does not have an accelerator pump

Later cars (not sure if 2nd and 3rd ser but definitely 3rd) have the C32 PBIC fitted - with an accelerator pump

By all accounts the later carb is a huge improvement in terms of usability - more power and economy, so I am going to fit a non-standard, later carb to mine (I have the early one as well, just in case ....) but the carbs I have are new but have come from other models and were not complete

First was to fit an emulsion jet tube to the PBIC, they are delicate and often break if someone is too firm with the jet . Carb body in the oven (75°) and tube in the freezer (-20°) . A tight push fit but straight forward !
Then clean everything and check jet sizes, change the linkage, fit new gaskets and drill out the mounting holes because they were threaded.

Now the question of jets and what difference do different sizes make ?

Standard Appia set up for the PBIC is:

Main = 120
Emulsion = 180
Starter = 130
Diffuser = 23.5
Slow running = 45
Float chamber valve = 1.5

I have most of the correct jets except the emulsion jets I have are 195 and 175 - what difference will they make to the engine running

Also I am not sure which is the diffuser jet (see photo 3 - is it the middle brass "bolt" ?) but the one I think it is, is a 50 - what difference will this make ?

Finally, the float valve - I have 1.7's as well as 1.5's - what does the number mean ? Flow rate ?

Sorry if this is just too boring ........







Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 25 November, 2016, 06:29:29 PM
First float valve is mm when open. I suspect 1.5 will be fine for the small Appia engine. 1.3 is standard for the 1.3 Fulvia.

Slow running jet you may find you need to up this when running if you have a flat spot as it is also a transitional fueller before the main jet comes into play. Modern fuels are some what more volatile so need a larger jet sometimes.

Emulsion (Air correction) jet is 190 for all 1.3 Fulvias dropping to 175 for the 1.6 so I would plumb for the 195 (or buy a 180 when you see one on ebay). Not that critical while you are tinkering just keep an eye on spark plug colour.....



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Dikappa on 25 November, 2016, 08:57:32 PM
Your posts are never Boring Simon!  They only make me a bit jealous on al the progress you're making!!!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 25 November, 2016, 09:59:10 PM
Before I forget, a picture showing different types of sidelight rubber - I am using the lower one with the brass tube. These lights were used on a whole variety of 50's cars hence the different set up


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: John B on 26 November, 2016, 11:38:31 AM
Interesting pics of your carb Simon, mine should be the same but there seems to be a significant difference when viewed from above. Mine does not have the large brass tube and there is no provision for it, perhaps in the past someone has replaced the top section with one from an earlier type carb without the accelerator pump perhaps? Assuming yours is correct and mine is not what differences would it make?
Photos below.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 26 November, 2016, 03:06:46 PM
John, I think the top has been changed because it also has the spigot for a fuel hose instead of the brass union and rigid pipe from the fuel pump

Huge step forward for the furgoncino today - she ran for the first time in years ......

First up though was to bolt up the bell housing, connecting the clutch cover to the flywheel and fitting the clutch and brake pedals, before moving onto starting her

I kept it very simple, just wanted to she whether the timing was right, oil pressure came up etc. So no exhaust , no fuel line, no water or radiator, cap and leads from the "Everyday Appia" , new plugs, no dynamo and the starter/ignition connected to a battery via jump leads.

Poured a cap full of petrol down the carb and pressed the key and she started first compression !

I only ran her for 5 seconds, but good oil pressure and no rattles - and very loud !

Now that I know that the fundamentals are all OK I can go back to the detail ......



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: John B on 26 November, 2016, 03:26:14 PM
John, I think the top has been changed because it also has the spigot for a fuel hose instead of the brass union and rigid pipe from the fuel pump

Well spotted, hadn't noticed that.

Congrats on the first test firing of the Furgoncino.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 26 November, 2016, 03:49:03 PM

Started first compression - you might be getting quite good at this old car malarky...


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 26 November, 2016, 03:54:34 PM
Excellent, take a bow.....Simon, another epic, iconic Lancia saved for a further 30/40 yrs!


P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 28 November, 2016, 06:15:05 PM
Yes Frank - should see me out !

It's the detail that takes the time ...... after I refitted the front brake shoes I set to on the plug leads and throttle linkage.

I bought some nice braided HT lead material on eBay, primarily for the Aprilia, but the Appia had the same thing so it got used here instead. By the time it had been cut to length, trimmed, rubbers pulled on and the tabs cleaned up and transferred - plus soldering all the terminals - it took 3 hours !

Fitting the rubbers was the most difficult to do well, the braiding is not fixed and the wire is slightly wider than a non-braided wire meaning the rubbers were a tight fit. What worked best was lubricant and heat

(please note that I avoided any sexual innuendo !!)

After that it was cleaning and polishing the throttle linkage. Now refitted (loosely) with new bobbin rubbers, ready for final adjustment once I have the engine running. I need to find a nicely weighted spring as well

The linkage is very tight where it passes between the engine mount and oil filter with subtle kinks in the rod.

Final jobs were to polish and fit the fuel line, paint the new exhaust (think it will look nicer in black) and fit new battery terminals

Maybe a bit more tomorrow




Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 28 November, 2016, 06:48:51 PM
That's one smart engine bay. Must be so satisfying to bring it back to life and save such a lovely vehicle from the scrap heap.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 30 November, 2016, 12:26:40 PM
I bought some nice braided HT lead material on eBay, primarily for the Aprilia, but the Appia had the same thing so it got used here instead. By the time it had been cut to length, trimmed, rubbers pulled on and the tabs cleaned up and transferred - plus soldering all the terminals - it took 3 hours !


That's the joy and benefit of this being a hobby...


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 01 December, 2016, 06:51:25 AM
Re HT leads, you are right David, being presented with a bill for £200 for a set of plug leads would hurt ! I am enjoying getting the detail right in the engine bay ...... and this leads to another request

Does anyone have a source for the correct cotter-pin hose clips ? (will find a photo later) - JUST ADDED

I have seen some kits on a US based Mercedes Benz site, but they are v expensive and then there is the problem of time and postage

I have bought some classic-wire clips but they are not quite right either and jubilee clips are just too garish.

One job has been to repair the aluminium "Christmas tree" water pipe at the bottom of the radiator. All those I have come across are heavily corroded and it is impossible to undo the banjo bolt. I repaired the waterpump input pipe by inserting a suitable piece of copper pipe and repairing the aluminium with a 2-pack radiator repair resin.

Rad just needs a good clean and paint and I have painted the exhaust black - to my eye it looks much better from underneath (bad photo , though !)


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 01 December, 2016, 09:19:25 AM
Simon - sent you an email.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 01 December, 2016, 09:21:01 AM

Nice job on the casting repair...what was the material you used?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 01 December, 2016, 09:30:02 AM
A plastic padding product - I use it quite a lot because it is very rapid and sticks to most things . I used it to repair a washer bottle on the Land Rover for example



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 01 December, 2016, 11:56:40 AM
Power of the Forum !

Tim Heath has found some as fitted to Vespas or Fiat 500's - well done ! So they are on their way from Italy


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: frankxhv773t on 01 December, 2016, 07:10:08 PM
I'm glad to see that correct cotter pins have been found. In that they are basically a strip of metal and a split pin I was going to suggest you could possibly have a go at making them.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 01 December, 2016, 07:19:39 PM
Actually Frank the "split pin" is not! its bowed in the middle and is made of tough steel so wont deform. You also need the pin holder thing. That could be made I suppose, but the Vespa item is only a couple of euros.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: chriswgawne on 01 December, 2016, 08:07:13 PM
Could you post details please of the supplier of the  pin holder thing and the fittings?
Our B12 had new ones fitted shortly before we acquired it and they look so authentic.
Chris


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: SanRemo78 on 01 December, 2016, 10:47:59 PM
Thought this might look good in the back of the furgoncino..

http://www.ebay.it/itm/cassetta-porta-attrezzi-per-autocarro-lancia-depoca-/252662319698?hash=item3ad3d90a52:g:w9cAAOSw8gVX~IUF

Guy


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 02 December, 2016, 07:27:55 AM
It would indeed - I suspect that it well sell for more than 80 euros though !

This has been seen before, but here is the intended "boot-box" for the furgoncino. David Laver and I found it in a vide-grenier a couple of years ago


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: the.cern on 02 December, 2016, 08:04:01 AM
That is much classier than a toolbox ..... and, providing things go to plan, you should use it a lot more than said toolbox!!!!

                                     Andy


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 04 December, 2016, 09:38:36 AM
Chris
Once I have received and assessed the clips I will share the suppliers - I have bought them from a couple of sources

RE the Mercedes source, I am awaiting a message from a Merc-owning mate for those as well


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 05 December, 2016, 03:22:08 PM
First batches of clamps have arrived

I bought some wire-rail ones as well because they are of the same period, but more "English" than European, but still look good and are much easier to use/re-use. I may use one of these on the top hose because it is taken on and off much more often

The cotter type are slightly smaller (5mm wide cf 8mm) than the originals, but especially on the smaller diameter pipes on the Christmas tree, they will work well, giving a tiny bit more room

Still waiting for the final batch to arrive


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 05 December, 2016, 05:09:08 PM
Luckily I had a spare Christmas tree casting (the one above that has been fettled)so it meant that I could try and separate the original.

The photos show what I found !

Impossible to take apart without breaking the banjo bolt because it was so rusted and weakened. Plus the banjo itself is completely blocked, so water flow would have been impossible meaning little or no water flow from the inlet side of the head or the heater matrix

I can probably clean up the casting and retap it but the bolt is hors-service so need to find a new one .....

The heater in my 3rd ser doesn't work very well, so I suspect the problem is the same


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: LANCIA on 05 December, 2016, 06:51:25 PM
CIAO , CAVALITTO DI TORINO PUO' DARTI COSA TI SERVE , RACCORDI NICHELATI E BULLONE IN OTTONE E SUPPORTO NUOVO IN ALLUMINIO.......


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 06 December, 2016, 09:58:39 AM

Not much mention of the lathe of late.  Could you make a replacement?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: chriswgawne on 06 December, 2016, 03:08:04 PM
Simon,
Sent you a pm ref Carello headlamps now I am back home in Italy after 6 weeks away.
Chris


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancianut666 on 06 December, 2016, 06:46:29 PM
A little bird tells me we might have the banjo bolt in nice shiny stainless steel I will check tomorrow
Clarkey


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 08 December, 2016, 04:48:10 PM
Power of the Forum !

Tim Heath has found some as fitted to Vespas or Fiat 500's - well done ! So they are on their way from Italy

Before fitting these make sure they are not used on silicone hoses as the edges of the band do not have a radius and will over time cut the hose. Some classic hoses are so good you may think they are old school rubber hoses. Just a thought...


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancianut666 on 08 December, 2016, 05:13:01 PM
see pic for stainless steel banjo


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 08 December, 2016, 05:16:53 PM
Thanks Tim (good to see you this week !)
I wasn't planning on fitting silicon hoses, but interesting to hear what you say about the bands. Does that apply to jubilee clips as well ?

On the subject of hose clips, I made a tool for tightening them up. An old screwdriver with the end cut off and a slot cut in the end. We'll see how it works. For the larger clips , I will do the same thing with an old bolt and then weld it to something ...

After coming in from the pruning, (we have about 4,500 vines in total and I have done the first 500 over the last couple of days - I will post a couple of pictures on the Everyday Appia page later in the week)  I have been tidying up the radiator and shutters

The radiator is in pretty good nick so I am not doing much more than clean, paint and refit. The inside is very clean, water flows through it at a very high rate and it seems a shame to pull it apart if it doesn't need it. Easy job to do later if required

A big surprise was the top shutter thermostat that came out very easily. It has a split washer to locate it in the radiator "tube". Interesting to note that it was soldered in behind the retaining  ring, presumably to stop it leaking, so I will need to find an alternative seal - what do you Appia and Aurelia owners do ?

I don't know what the Aprilia has because I have never managed to remove a thermostat !

I tested it alongside a new one in a cup of boiling water and seems to work well. You can see the temp range on the casing. Other detail shows the radiators are numbered as well - C10 - 46037

Last picture shows a slight mod that I have made to the battery earth wire. I changed the short, stiff original for a much long flexible wire so that sliding the battery in and out of its cubby-hole is much easier


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 08 December, 2016, 05:17:49 PM
Thanks Jim !



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancianut666 on 08 December, 2016, 05:40:30 PM
re the clips above...the flat strip ones are similar to ones I used many years ago on telephone cable enclosures when I was just a boy working for Post Office Telecommunications AKA BT these days...as I remember we used a tool called a spike capstan to tighten them up...the good old days
Clarkey AKA Buzby


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 08 December, 2016, 07:25:37 PM
Thanks Tim (good to see you this week !)
I wasn't planning on fitting silicon hoses, but interesting to hear what you say about the bands. Does that apply to jubilee clips as well ?


Jubilee clips with a microscopic radius out on the edge are fine with silicon. Old style (ie plain orthogonal edge) is not nor are those wire clips!!!.

While typing I dropped the tank of the Delta today to find the cause of the mega petrol leak everytime I filled up. Culprit was a crushed plastic over flow connection due to over zealous tightening of its jubilee clip when assembled from new. You can only get to this clip by dropping the tank. Purposely drove the tank to empty on the way from Dover as I thought I might need to drop it.......Sarah was a bit worried for the last 20miles with the orange light on. Still had c 10 litres to empty out....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 08 December, 2016, 09:10:48 PM
Tim, very interesting , but can we have it in English please ?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 08 December, 2016, 10:45:34 PM
Tim, very interesting , but can we have it in English please ?
Oui. Bien sur!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 09 December, 2016, 09:06:02 AM

I never knew the radiator shutter actuators came in different temperature ranges...


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 06 January, 2017, 08:24:23 AM
Firstly - HAPPY NEW YEAR, health , happiness and completed projects to everyone !

Just back in the garage after the Christmas travels, that included a trip to the Appia Consortium in Hartlepool. I also collected the leather and upholstery materials for the Aprilia, but that's a different story !

Refitting the radiator is taking a while because there is a surprising amount of detail. Lots of bits to strip clean and paint, rubbers to make and fit, gaskets etc plus the famous pipe clips

I have refitted the thermostat using hermetite and a standard 3/4" fibre washer instead of the original solder, let's see if it works !

The shutters are back in place, I was able to re-use one of the wires but replaced the other. Simple but effective system

New mounting rubbers were collected from the Consortium along with new 4lb cap and spring. I did a trial fit and lined up the Christmas tree and have started to fit the clips. They do look much better !

For reference, I used about 14" of metal for the 1 1/4" pipe and about 8" of metal for the 3/4" pipe. The metal is looped twice around the pipe, the end is reversed back into the split pin (using about 3/4" of overlap) and then rotated anti-clockwise to tighten

To rotate the pin I used a piece of squashed 10mm tube. I think that I will make a neater version later ......

Final picture shows the brass bolt that holds the Christmas tree in place - so careful not to over-tighten


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 06 January, 2017, 11:24:13 AM
Moving it all on is very satisfying Simon, looking very good, great attention to detail too, cheers for the New Year good wishes, right back at you.


P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 06 January, 2017, 12:09:59 PM
Love the squashed tube tool. Just how I would have done it if I had thought about!!!! Did you bend the other end to get some leverage??


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 06 January, 2017, 01:51:06 PM

"Surprising amount of detail".  Am pleased to hear it can STILL surprise you as it delights the rest of us.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 06 January, 2017, 04:37:43 PM
Tim, I welded the rod onto an old 1/4" drive socket (4mm for reference .....) so that I can use it with a handle and extensions. For the smaller clips I cut a slot in a 5 mm socket so it would work in the same way. Then I put some coloured heat-shrink around them so I can find them !

A fiddly day, but one with a positive outcome.

Once all the pipes were cut to length, pipe clips made and fitted, radiator fitted and filled , I tried to start the engine. It took an age and was finally achieved by heating the plugs in the oven for 10 minutes. She kept firing and running for a couple of seconds but wouldn't run. But hot plugs and a drop of fuel down the carb worked wonders. It is very cold here at the moment so that was probably the cause

Once the engine was running a couple of problems became apparent:

1/ An ominous noise from the back of the engine
2/ A leak at the bottom of the radiator
3/ Petrol leak from the carb

First up, the noise - it was only audible once the engine was running above a certain speed and was a loud whirring/knocking. I have heard something similar before with a stuck starter motor and this is what it turned out to be. The solenoid appears to be lazy and doesn't retract the pinion far enough or quickly enough. Fortunately I had a spare (albeit dirty !) motor so this cured the noise

Second, there was a small , invisible split where the bottom reservoir was soldered to the fin section. This may have been caused by little or no room under the rad once it was fitted on the new rubbers. So the rad was fixed with some plastic padding rad fix and an extra rubber spacer added

The leak from the carb was just a badly seated copper washer

However, all repaired and she runs like a dream ..... I tried to show this in the photo , but difficult ! Tomorrow I will put the wheels back on, refit the seat and drive her out of the garage

Lastly a couple of "detail" pictures for David !




Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 06 January, 2017, 07:01:22 PM
Excellent work Simon. So satisfying ending an up and down day on a high. At first I thought the knocking noise was the Appia curse a la Andy Tait, but no just a sloppy rebuild on a starter motor. I am just sorry I will not see this fine work when next down your way as you will be in the UK!!!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: chriswgawne on 06 January, 2017, 09:41:26 PM
I love those hose clips. memo to self to get the required bits and make the appropriate tools ASAP.
Chris


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancianut666 on 07 January, 2017, 01:35:26 PM
re the long brass bolt to fasten the christmas tree onto the rad..we have some stainless steel ones down at the stores..
Clarkey


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 07 January, 2017, 01:44:17 PM
The furgoncino started much more easily today , and even ran for a while when I remembered to put the petrol pipe into a can of petrol !

Once she was warm enough I moved her back and forward under her own steam - not far, just a couple of yards, but little by little !

One small hiccough was selecting reverse, the 5 forward gears all selected and moved the car, but couldn't get reverse. It needed some ingenuity to move the lever and look behind the engine at the same time, but I eventually saw thet the speedo cable moved and jammed the selector .......

I have made my first ever and very short YouTube video which may or may not be available via this link !

https://youtu.be/XZUu9OakiB4 (https://youtu.be/XZUu9OakiB4)


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Sebastien on 07 January, 2017, 01:51:42 PM
I agree with Chris and others:

The split plin hose clips you used look very nice!

Would love to use them to replace some modern ones on my Aurelia(s).
A list of european suppliers or sources would be excellent!



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 07 January, 2017, 02:14:24 PM

I have made my first ever and very short YouTube video which may or may not be available via this link !

https://youtu.be/XZUu9OakiB4 (https://youtu.be/XZUu9OakiB4)


Sounds sweet enough to gas you and chop errant fingers off!! 


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 07 January, 2017, 02:42:50 PM

Sounds sweet and willing.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Dikappa on 07 January, 2017, 07:02:39 PM
Again a giant leap forward Simon!

Thrilled to see it in the flesh on the next SP...

A question on interior finish if I may:  Yesterday I had a 'discussion' with Gerhard on the colour of the interior.  My furgoncino (Light/ dark grey exterior colour) has a blue skai interior, and I thought all grey furgone's had blue, and the green ones had grey interiors.  Gerhard's furgone has grey interior material in a grey car, and furthermore the door card material is thinner and of different texture then the seat material.
Anyone knows more about this? (hope this is not too polluting your topic?)



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 07 January, 2017, 07:08:30 PM
Sounds and looks really responsive. What a great little engine.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: frankxhv773t on 07 January, 2017, 08:26:48 PM
Your YouTube video is excellent. What a wonderful addition to a wonderful thread.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 08 January, 2017, 08:38:04 AM
A list of suppliers for the hose clips - thanks to Tim Heath for finding the first two in Italy !

I found that the first supplier was VERY slow, but the second supplier (smaller Vespa ones) was super quick !

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FASCETTA-PER-MANICOTTO-RAFFREDDAMENTO-FIAT-500-126-VR-84-/371064472511?hash=item56652a83bf (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FASCETTA-PER-MANICOTTO-RAFFREDDAMENTO-FIAT-500-126-VR-84-/371064472511?hash=item56652a83bf)

http://www.motoricambisoviero.it/catalogo/-Coppia-Fascetta-Vintage-Metallica-a-Coppiglia-mm-5x200-per-Manicotti-per-Vespa--2566 (http://www.motoricambisoviero.it/catalogo/-Coppia-Fascetta-Vintage-Metallica-a-Coppiglia-mm-5x200-per-Manicotti-per-Vespa--2566)

I identified a supplier in the USA who has kits, but I thought they worked out very expensive once postage was added

http://www.authenticclassics.com/Cotter-Type-Hose-clamp-kit-5mm-9mm-Sizes-p/auth-003406.htm (http://www.authenticclassics.com/Cotter-Type-Hose-clamp-kit-5mm-9mm-Sizes-p/auth-003406.htm)

If you google "fascetta metallica a coppiglia" you can find a few more options, but I haven't any direct experience of them



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 08 January, 2017, 08:52:27 AM
Koen,

I will take some photos of trim later today


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: peteracs on 08 January, 2017, 10:18:39 AM
The other problem with items from outside the EU is that it depends on the courier or post if they charge VAT on the item and usually they will also add an admin fee, so a £80 item can quickly become £100 etc. The admin charge varies courier to courier, best to check.

Not a great problem for those of us who can claim the VAT back, but not so for individuals.

Peter


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - Dynamo
Post by: simonandjuliet on 09 January, 2017, 05:29:03 PM
A nice , satisfying job today, squeezed in between coats of paint in Mathilda's bedroom ...... out go fairies and Barbie, in comes sophistication !

One of the problems with buying a car in boxes is that you didn't take it apart and don't always know how it was connected up originally. So when the dynamo was refitted I connected up the wires as I thought they should be according to the labels on them and the wiring diagram at my side.

But the dynamo light stayed on when running, so a check across the battery terminals with a voltmeter showed that there was no increase with revving, but the regulator appeared to be working so on rechecking the wires and diagram I spotted that I had mis-read one of the labels - the D+ label had become worn and I had read as D- thus connecting to the D- marked on the dynamo case !

Connected up properly and the light goes out !

The only problem is that my car is slightly different to the wiring diagram having 2 D+ wires to the dynamo instead of just one as per wiring diagram. However the light goes out and the volts rise on revving so let's see what happens




Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 09 January, 2017, 09:03:39 PM
You sure D- on the regulator should not go to D- on the body of the dynamo (how my S1 Fulvia is wired)?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 10 January, 2017, 09:24:23 AM
There isn't a D- on the Appia regulator , it is just the body of the regulator  - both the dynamo and regulator are earthed.  There is a thick webbed strap between the engine and chassis across the LH engine mount.

I can't remember how the bodywork on the Fulvia is earthed because the battery -ve goes to the back of the engine if I recall


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 10 January, 2017, 10:11:57 AM
I can't remember how the bodywork on the Fulvia is earthed because the battery -ve goes to the back of the engine if I recall
Yes the fulvia is randomly earthed with 6mm cable and crimp eyes and it is easy for these to break/ and get left off a rebuild....Maybe though the dynamo is happier with its own earth to the regulator (but if the is no provision.....)


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 12 January, 2017, 03:08:42 PM
I will see if there is any problem with charging, if so I can always add a cable

A couple of nice jobs today in between fitting out my new "sewing room" ...... actually it is the space above the garage. I have just boarded it out and put a window in for security.  Nice bit of carpet on the floor and a heater and I'm sorted !

Jules has suggested adding a bed - trying to tell me something, perhaps ?

The air filter was too tatty to use as was, so it has been rubbed down and painted. It meant that I lost the "Fispa" transfer but the consortium have new ones.

The washer bottle and frame were cleaned up and a new transfer applied. Next jobs are fitting the horn and choke cable plus painting and fitting new rocker covers now that the engine is in - I had just sprayed a couple of old ones black for the photos.

Once done, I can fit the bonnet and move on ......



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 16 January, 2017, 04:01:45 PM
More bits done this afternoon:

Choke cable fitted
Radiator stays
Horn cleaned and fitted - plus it makes a very loud noise !
Rocker covers painted

I only replaced the cable outer, but still have to find/make the bracket that fixes it to the back of the oil filler pipe - anyone got one to hand ?

With the radiator stays/rubbers, I have been trying out a new product. It is a spray acrylic finish protector. In some situations I have cleaned up brackets or bolts that have had surface rust. This can damage the nickel/zinc coat so that after a while it becomes tarnished again. I could re-plate the bits , but I often want to retain the character that some wear gives.
Previously I have been using a French product called "Rustol" but the problem is that it takes forever to dry, so now I have found a new "Eastwood" product
Anyone else had experience with it ?

The horn has cleaned up very nicely so really doesn't need paint. It is mounted on a delightful laminated, spring steel stay. I still need to find a solution to the horn-ring brush that fits behind the steering wheel. I have tried some distributor cap brushes but they are not quite right.
Again, anyone any other ideas ? There is a company in the UK that makes brushes (I have just had new starter motor brushes re-manufactured for the Appia Consortium) so maybe they could help ....

The rocker covers have been painted with crackle (wrinkle) paint. A couple of photos to show the process. I rescued an old oven that was bound for the tip so I used that to keep the rocker covers warm (50°C ish) whilst I painted them. You do 3 heavy-ish coats, 5 mins apart and then wait. The paint is initially smooth but starts to crackle after about 20 mins when the parts are warm
I will leave them to dry for a day or 2 then give them a blast in the oven (200°C) to cure them

It was very satisfying to start the van, drive her out of the garage, turn her around and drive back in again - the brakes even work !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 16 January, 2017, 06:52:48 PM
That horn was obviously built to last - only the best as usual. Crackle covers look great.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: frankxhv773t on 16 January, 2017, 07:27:25 PM
As ever it all looks so good. What make of crackle finish paint are you using? For the horn brush, presumably it is carbon, couldn't you just file something the right size from a larger carbon brush or isn't that simple?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 16 January, 2017, 07:57:48 PM
Gents ,thanks for your comments - re paint, I use Eastwood's - available via Frosts, I have used it successfully for years ! May try cutting down an old brush ....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 17 January, 2017, 10:19:00 AM

Love the shot of the workshop oven.  Got your eye on the dishwasher?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 20 January, 2017, 06:54:47 PM
Glad you like it David, wait 'til you see the new carpet ......!

More detail today because I am fitting the bonnet tomorrow. Dog is coming round because he won't let me fit it on my own !
 
Before we can do that though I have been cleaning the underside. The info panels have come up nicely and a tiny detail is the small piece of cloth that is glued under the surround-join, why ?? But I have replaced it as it was !

The sound deadening was damaged, so that has been repaired, re-glued and stained black again. The stay, lock and bolts etc have all been cleaned up and threads cleaned and greased. Many bits have been lacquered

First picture shows the underside after the first panel was cleaned and stained, showing before and after

It would have been very easy to repaint the underside of the bonnet and hinges etc, however I want to retain as much of the original as I can. I did repaint the engine bay out of necessity, but the rest has been kept if at all possible. It is a tricky and fine line !

One of the nice things (to me) is to see how the bonnet was painted originally. It looks as if it was painted in the light green and then a very thin coat of dark green was flicked over it. There are bits that are not covered and where the hinges fit, was not painted at all. Again detail, but interesting to some !

I did mix up some dark green to touch in a couple of bare patches

Tomorrow we fit the bonnet and start on the steering wheel. I have also ordered a set of tyres so the wheels need to be colour matched before they get stripped.

ps the new carpet arrived for the 'sewing room'



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 21 January, 2017, 05:44:55 PM
Bonnet fitted and steering wheel started

The bonnet fits nicely and looks good up or down !

Early Appia bakelite plastics are extremely fragile and the binnacles, steering wheels and various knobs and levers all suffer. But it seems to be mainly the ivory colour that is so delicate. I think early Aurelias have the same problem, especially the steering wheels. Indeed there is someone in France making beautiful reproductions (Salut Jean-Noel !) ....

Anyway,back to Appias - my wheel is not beyond redemption, but does need a lot of work. Unfortunately I forgot to take a proper "before" picture, so the first photo is about half way through the cleaning process. It has been Scotchbrite'd, filled with a flexible 2-pack filler and rubbed down and tomorrow will hopefully be painted.

Obviously Dog is doing most of this - I spent most of the day sorting out my new room !



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 21 January, 2017, 06:09:41 PM
The bit of cloth may have been to stop those lovely info panels vibrating although who would hear apart from may be the occasional pedestrian...Do you have a process for restoring the blue?? My Vignale info plate is still legible but the blue has mostly gone/ turned to dirty dark blue. The raised letters "are not" by very much. If I start cleaning it I know the lot will end up as an aluminium panel with barely discernible lettering.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: the.cern on 21 January, 2017, 08:40:29 PM
Tim, I think I was told this little snippet by Colin Marr ....

Apparently the way to restore these plates is to spray them the appropriate blue and then, with a very fine, truly flat stone, slowly and carefully abrade away the paint from the raised lettering.

I freely admit that I have not tried this, but the theory is sound!!

                                               Andy


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: ColinMarr on 22 January, 2017, 11:19:10 AM
It's nice to be acknowledged for a good idea but I have to confess that I learnt that technique from Peter Harding. The blue plates for my B20 were in a really bad way, but they cleaned up very well. I have lots of photos of my car when finished, but sadly I don't seem to have taken any under-bonnet shots.

I am enjoying reading this thread. Keep up the good work, Simon!

Colin


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 22 January, 2017, 11:43:18 AM
I think the flavia plate is silkscreen printed so no embossing ....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: the.cern on 22 January, 2017, 12:39:47 PM
I think the flavia plate is silkscreen printed so no embossing ....

Such is life!!!!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 22 January, 2017, 06:25:49 PM
Would it really be silkscreen printing ?

I was lucky with my plates, they were just dirty and needed careful cleaning with super resin polish (mild abrasive)

Dog is just finishing the steering wheel as I type, it looks superb in the flesh, photos never quite get the colour !

So cleaned up , flexible filler, flexible primer , water based paint and lacquer. I matched the colour to the weathered side of the gear lever, so hopefully it won't be too bright !

The steering wheel has the same splines as an Apirilia so I used a spare column for holding it whilst painting the wheel .....

I also cleaned up the back of one of the wheels so we can colour match that as well before they are stripped and repainted

Lastly, when I bought the furgoncino , Alan gave me a plaque from the "Registro Appia" - I have had a look at their site and indeed dropped them a line some time ago (albeit in English) but have not had any contact with them. Does anyone have any contact with this club ?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Dikappa on 23 January, 2017, 07:06:39 AM
Juliet knows you're using her garden table as a spray boot?  That would be very bad points over here....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: the.cern on 23 January, 2017, 08:44:11 AM
Simon, are you saying those look like new information plates are the originals just cleaned up? That is astonishing!! Do they actually look as good in the flesh?

                                                    Andy


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 23 January, 2017, 12:12:47 PM
My thoughts too. Plus I can't believe the size of them and the fact they are metal plates screwed on. No cheap little stickers back then.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: donw on 23 January, 2017, 02:59:27 PM
Simon

http://www.clublanciaappia.it/wp/?page_id=50

This would appear to be the "official" Appia club


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 23 January, 2017, 03:53:19 PM
Thanks everyone

Re the plates, they are the originals and close up they still look good, not perfect, but patinated ! I was asked for details of the product so the second picture shows it alongside a spare panel. I did a 2 minute clean just to show a bit of before and after, but the more time and care taken, the better the result.

For anorak's corner - how many spelling mistakes can you see ?

Koen, Jules is pretty cool about most things - here's a photo of the steering wheel curing overnight in the kitchen. It is too cold and damp to leave it outside

I am still waiting for the new graphite rods to arrive so I can make the horn pickup before a final fit, but you begin to get the idea how the wheel looks

Don, have you had any contact with the Appia club, they didn't respond to my email written in bad Italian

Finally, not sure if this has been seen before - a lovely, original charcoal drawing of my old Aurelia done by Emma Smallhorn in the mid 80's. I came across it again whilst emptying boxes and hanging bits and pieces on the wall to keep them safe !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 23 January, 2017, 05:04:38 PM
I always wondered why garden tables had a hole in the middle.......

With reference to the wheel colour (we have mentioned this before in Aurelia threads) try Ford Alpaca Beige, Ford numbers CT,  MAT, or 2B.  ICI code NT 70.  It would be interesting to see how close it is to your cleaned wheel.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 24 January, 2017, 09:02:07 AM

That's a very familiar picture of your/my/Lou and Jason's car - I've got a copy framed on the wall :)


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 30 January, 2017, 06:14:12 PM
David, I should probably frame it properly as well since it is the original .....

Ade, it will be interesting to see how close we are with the colour. We have matched the wheels as well - I haven't found a reference for them so we are going with chips.

I have just returned from the UK following an Appia Consortium meeting with Don and Jim. We also spent a few hours going through and sorting boxes in the stores and have found a ridiculous number of new drums, second hand suspension reservoirs, wiper motors and rocker covers amongst many other bits 

Don't forget - if you need something for your Appia, try the Consortium first  - Promotional message finished !

During our chat with Don, he said that he had sent some door rubbers and track to a member. They were happy with the parts, however they were surprised when they were presented with a bill for 39 hrs to fit them - PER SIDE !

So that brings me on nicely to this afternoon's job - fitting door rubbers (and making a steering wheel removal tool)

I have been mulling over the problem of fitting the door rubbers for some time and came up with the following:

New black plastic track has replaced the original aluminium and it is very user un-friendly. It is like wrestling an octopus, you fit one end and the other end seems to come alive and wrap itself around your neck. The plastic comes in rolls and is quite rigid. the obvious solution is to warm it up, but I found that the working-time window is very limited.

I heated it to about 100°C ,any less and it is not flexible enough,but it is too hot to handle for long,  it then cools very quickly and goes hard again ....

You can't heat it in situ because you risk damaging the paint, so the solution was to make a template for the door frame, copy it in ply and then heat the track and heat/fit it to the wooden template.

Once done I decided to fit the rubber to the track and the glue/screw it in place because it is impossible to fit the rubber once the track is in place in the door frame. I have also decided to split the track/rubber because it is just too difficult to do in one piece - see octopus above

First section done and the rest should be easier now I have a method . If anyone wants templates, let me know.

I haven't edited the photo of the rubber sitting in the track because I was hoping that someone may be able to read my palm and tell me what is going to happen this year ... or how many children I am going to have !

Second job was to make a tool to remove the steering wheel. Quite straight forward because the holes used for locating the locking tab are threaded and if you make a bar to go across the column it is possible to pull the wheel off using a couple of bolts without damaging anything


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: frankxhv773t on 30 January, 2017, 07:55:46 PM
Interestingly your steering wheel removal tool is almost identical to one I made up for use on a Beta.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: the.cern on 30 January, 2017, 09:12:53 PM
QUOTE       During our chat with Don, he said that he had sent some door rubbers and track to a member. They were happy with the parts, however they were surprised when they were presented with a bill for 39 hrs to fit them - PER SIDE !

That is seriously worrying!!! It reminds me of a conversation I had with Chris Gawne. I told him that for the Aurelia I had sourced a pair of aluminium trims that hold the rubber seal that the door windows close down against and that I needed to fit new rubber seals. He laughed and said words to the effect "allow yourself two weeks and start exercising to get some real strength in your hands and arms"!!!

I am sure there is a knack, but I suspect that, as usual, I will have developed said knack just as I finish the task!!!!

Time will tell and I do have one or two other tasks to tackle before I get to that one.

                                   Andy


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: chriswgawne on 31 January, 2017, 12:46:45 PM
Are those new wiper motors the same as Aurelia perchance?
Chris


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 31 January, 2017, 06:30:49 PM
Hi Chris
The motors are, i'm afraid, secondhand. However, if I recall , the motors are very similar to Aurelia but the length of the arm may be shorter on the Appia. You would need to put them side by side to check.

 


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 02 February, 2017, 05:09:52 PM
I've had a couple of afternoons this week in between planning for our next bottling. Lots to do and organise - not to mention buying 5,500 bottles and corks .....

The seal around the driver's door is finished. For the lower half, I adopted the same system of pre-forming the track and then fitting the rubber before gluing them both in place using tiger-seal. Where the join was made I have slotted in a piece of tubular foam rubber to maintain alignment. It has worked out very neatly and made the whole fitting process much more manageable.

The seal along the rear edge of the aperture has also been fitted along with a new piece of fabric covering the door-lock peg.

All in all it has taken a lot less time than the anticipated 39 hrs !

The driver's door has also been made up. New track and weatherseal have been fitted. The original weatherseal was curved at the ends so I have copied this. The back edge was removed at the ends, the ends snipped and then it can be bent. Once done it has also been tiger-sealed into place. It removes the ridiculous fiddle of drilling and screwing the fuzzy strip in place.

The screws that hold the aluminium trims in place are a tiny #2 1/4" phillips screw that you have to be very careful tightening because you can easily twist the heads off (I found out the hard way !) - I suspect that steel screws would be less brittle than the stainless ones I have been using.

ps , all the aluminium strip is cleaned up and polished using red or grey scotchbrite

The window and mechanism were cleaned up and refitted (nb fit the rear slider first) and the final job was to repair the spring that fits behind the handle. One end has snapped off so I straightened out one of the coils and reformed it. It definitely makes the handle return more cleanly, even with a reduced strength spring.

The bracket was originally riveted in place so that was ground off and the holes tapped to take M4x0.7 set screws

We are off skiing in the Alps for a few days, so it will be quiet for a while !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 02 February, 2017, 05:12:12 PM
More ......


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 02 February, 2017, 07:42:36 PM

Will it keep the weather out...  I'm also keeping my fingers crossed it shuts nicely without needing too firm a push.

Tricky to reform the spring?

Any felts to stop the door pull and lock links clattering?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 11 February, 2017, 09:52:24 AM
Back after a wintery trip skiing in Switzerland ..... complete convert to "winter tyres" - see separate post

David, the spring was not too difficult, I clamped the coils I wanted to keep in the vice and then opened up the final coil with pliers before reclamping the straightened wire. I didn't try and make too small a radius on the end, hence the hook

There are felts on all the actuator rods, including the vertical ones for the locks

There should be and additional flat rubber attached to the door edge that comes into contact with the aperture rubber, I will fit this once the door aperture rubbers have settled a bit. Because the doors are aluminium they don't have as much weight behind them so you are right, you don't want to push them too firmly !




Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 12 February, 2017, 02:30:18 PM
Dog came round for a cup of tea and I persuaded him to give me a hand to fit the driver's door - impossible on your own

With 2 people it only takes 5 mins, but you have to take great care because it is a close fit. The door closes nice and neatly and the rubbers compress easily, so I can now fit the rest of the door seals (door-side) and door opening springs. I think that the latter may be quite a job ...

Handle fitted as well

Last picture shows the new tyres waiting to go on, but still need to strip and paint the wheels


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 12 February, 2017, 03:27:35 PM
Hope you remembered to give Dog his cup of tea. Very neat shutlines - must be a relief to know that nothing has crept out of line with all the cutting and replacing.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 14 February, 2017, 09:48:01 AM
Yes - big relief since this was the wing where we made a new rear edge

I am grabbing a few minutes here and there at the moment, doing little detail jobs until I get a day on the van

Yesterday was fitting a discrete fuel filter under the newly refitted engine "cowl" - is that what it is ? They are quite complicated shapes  and it took quite a lot of fitting. The radiator tap had to be rotated slightly as well in order for it to line up.

The TAV is quite different from my car because it only show a RHD set up.

I think these are a faff , so often get left off, but if anyone needs this part for a LHD car, I think there are several in the consortium stores

Second TAV picture shows the door breakdown with the various felts and rubbers that stop the rattles - parts 4 & 51 David !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 14 February, 2017, 05:26:18 PM
Couple of nice little jobs this afternoon. Fitting the steering wheel, removing and repainting the starter motor and then fitting the undertrays on the driver's side - plus taking the wheels to have the tyres removed

The steering wheel took a while because I had to modify the fitment to make it work.....

There were a couple of issues, first was that when I re-assembled the hornpush as per the TAV, it short circuited the electrics. It didn't fuse anything, it just didn't work. I eventually sorted it by turning the bottom brass cupped washer over so it didn't touch the underside of the chrome bar. I have been very lucky to find an original and new chrome bar. Mine was OK but needed rechroming to look as good as the steering wheel

Second problem was that the pointed spike that connects the horn push to the steering wheel was too short, so I found a long spring that fitted around the peg but still slid into the hole

Another job was to make the pick up brush for the steering column/ steering wheel. I bought some 5mm graphite rods cut it to size (12 mm for ref) and then put some heat-shrink around it because it was a bit loose in the insulated tube on the column

Last little piece to make was the peg that holds the horn centre in place - I used a 5mm piece of welding rod that is held in place by the plastic collar. It has a notch to locate the peg. I added a bit of insulation tape around the collar because I found another one that had broken at the notch so I re-enforced this one

All back together and makes a suitable noise when pushed

The starter motor works well but was my spare and susequently had not been cleaned properly, so that came off  was cleaned and repainted and refitted

Last up was to refit the undertrays on the other side, having first replaced the jury-rigged throttle spring and correctly fitted the split pins - all detail but needs to be done !

I have put some petrol in the tank, so today she ran without a pipe running from a jerry can





Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 14 February, 2017, 05:31:21 PM

How pleased are you to have a lift...

Love all the detail in the horn push.

First run off petrol in its own tank is a step.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 15 February, 2017, 10:10:26 AM
Love the shot of the dash and wheel. So simple and elegant. So much nicer than the big ugly wheels of today. Although the airbag must be tiny :)


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: mikeC on 15 February, 2017, 07:18:41 PM
Appias don't need airbags, they have AAA.









(Active Accident Avoidance)  ;D


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 16 February, 2017, 07:09:29 PM
AAA - I certainly hope so

Re lift, FANTASTIC ..... even simple jobs like today's fitting of the rear seals, I stood or sat at the back of the van and lifted or lowered the car to be at a comfortable height ! I am getting so complacent in my old age !

So today's jobs:

Fitted the door lock on the driver's side. Sprayed the inside of the door with waxoyl - I know it's aluminium, but I reckon it won't do any harm, plus it gets rid of the dust and gives an even colour
Once done I cleaned the rubber covers and glued them in place with TigerSeal. The rubbers have screw holes in them but the door doesn't - not sure why , but the originals seem to have been glued in place. I have used TigerSeal because I find it sticks better than contact adhesive, plus it gives you a short time to move things once in place. Because it takes a while to dry it does mean that you need to hold things in place with clips or masking tape.
Last jobs now are to fit the door seal , trim and handles

I also fitted the seals around the rear doors. I cannot get the exact rubber profile (although we are currently looking into this) so I have a "U" section for the lip and then a 10mm square section mouse that fits into the groove. It looks great and hopefully will work well. The mouse was also glued in using TigerSeal

A couple of small rubber patches have been glued in place to protect the paint from the wheel brace. I have seen similar on another furgoncino

Last up was to clear the inside of the van and start hoovering/cleaning it ready for "preservation" - quite how I will do this, I am not sure yet !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 17 February, 2017, 10:10:17 AM
What's the panel with the window(?) and bars in the back? Is it a removable division between the cab and load area?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 17 February, 2017, 10:13:51 AM
Answered my own question - just randomly flicked back to see how much things have changed and found the 'Fido' panel on page 6.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 17 February, 2017, 06:16:13 PM
Here you are Stan, Fido-panel in place. If you went back to page 6 you saw that I was looking for the correct Philips screws - it took a long time but I eventually found a source and bought 20 year's supply !

I have always intended to preserve the inside because it is too good to paint, some would have repainted it , but my solution is to cover it all in waxoyl

The rationale for this is to treat the surface rust, use the product to clean the surface and lift the dust, it is safe on wood, once dry can be polished to give a nice satin, wax finish, is easy to remove if someone does want to paint it one day !

Between all the frames and the outer panels is (water absorbing !!!) felt, so I warmed the waxoyl and soaked these .....

I only removed the floor boards that were held in place with self-tappers (side pieces) but it looks as if they were all numbered. They are very "fitted" and must have taken a while originally. Some one told me that the wood was chestnut, but it seems too soft for that, more pitch-pine to my mind

Last job in here is to find some kind of caulking for the floor - Andy , any boating solutions ??


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 17 February, 2017, 07:02:46 PM
Never thought of using Waxoyl like that. In my mind it is always permanently tacky, but of course, thinking about it, it's not.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: SanRemo78 on 17 February, 2017, 07:59:36 PM
I've been reading this thread since it started and hadn't spotted the back deck was timbered!

I'm also kind of sad to see this restoration coming to an end.

Maybe the April Cabrio one will be as fun to follow!

Guy


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 18 February, 2017, 05:52:02 PM

I think Simon will have "something" on the go a while yet.

Interesting that the lift means you don't need to bend down, or stretch up, AT ALL.

On "Shed and Buried" the other day they used "anchor wax" which was new to me.

http://www.morrislubricants.co.uk/ankor-wax-preservative-fluid.html

Looked it up and seems to be a rat-rod finish but can pick up dust and filth.

This stuff is recommended by a curator friend - with a really rough 50s Wolsley as it happens.  Works on all sorts of surfaces, his favourite example being the LRDPG truck in the Imperial War Museum.

https://www.restexpress.co.uk/acatalog/Renaissance_wax.html?gclid=CjwKEAiA_p_FBRCRi_mW5Myl4S0SJAAkezZrJ8rdslnfJV2tGkemQxr1dd8JB5CSBHrNm53B8JTVMRoCi1jw_wcB

Google threw this one up.

http://www.preservationequipment.com/Catalogue/Display-Products/Display-Identification/Museum-Wax-P615-8000



 


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 18 February, 2017, 05:56:27 PM
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8651/16244406597_8c848396e6_b.jpg


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: mikeC on 18 February, 2017, 07:13:58 PM
I have used Renaissance Wax for many years to protect brass and nickel silver radiators, both of which tarnish very quickly - I can recommend it; never thought of using it on paint, but I can't see why not.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 18 February, 2017, 09:11:14 PM
Guy, thank you for staying with it, although for me it doesn't feel as if I am anywhere near the end, there is still is much to do !

I had never heard of "renaisssance wax" - how quickly does it dry ? I like these products that retain the finish you have worked for - I find tarnished nickel or zinc plate finishes most difficult to preserve and protect

This afternoon's job was to finish the boot floor and fit the rear lights.

My caulking solution was to cut strips of underfloor felt (rubberised black bit on top), soak them in waxoyl and then pack the gaps. I think it has worked well, you can see the results in some of the photos.

Fitting the lights took a while because the brass elbows and pipes had to be cleaned or remade before fitting. The earths were ground clean, fitted with crinkle washers and screwed in place. The LHS has a nice cover over it - too tatty to keep as it was , so it got a coat of paint and the RHS is under the hydraulic jack rubber mat

Interestingly, the rear lights are fitted sideways !

I have the original lights (but not the lenses) however they were too tarnished to refit , so have new units, with lenses. The casting references are identical to the originals and when you fit them , the Carello writing is sideways ! So unless there were other lenses that had mounting screws that were offset by 90° , they must have left the factory like this.

I could have recut the mounting holes easily enough , but am reluctant to do so

I cannot find (yet) the correct hydraulic jack , but have found something that looks OK , so it was painted an approximate blue and locked in place

Time ran out for a full test, but the lights work and some of the indicators ....... the indicator set up is interesting and if I can find the energy I will summarise how it works. The rear (red only) lights have side lights, brake lights and flashing red indicators in a single bulb. There is also a steering column cancel switch for the indicators. I am still getting my head around it all. I believe Aurelias have a similar setup
 




Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: mikeC on 19 February, 2017, 09:10:10 AM

I had never heard of "renaisssance wax" - how quickly does it dry ? I like these products that retain the finish you have worked for - I find tarnished nickel or zinc plate finishes most difficult to preserve and protect





I used Renaissance wax on the brass fittings on my Saxon; normally the brass would tarnish at the first signs of rain, but one application at the beginning of the year kept everything bright throughout the summer, even after heavy rain:

(https://s20.postimg.org/8z8hcnr19/P1030116.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

It comes as a soft wax in a tub, just apply with a cloth and gently rub off as with a furniture polish - no 'drying' involved.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 19 February, 2017, 11:23:51 AM
How cute is that - Love it !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancianut666 on 19 February, 2017, 05:48:08 PM
Re flashing rear red lights I would be tempted to look for something safer than those tiny bad boys. my local boy racers would be straight up the back end of your beloved resto and blame you for having no #~!%^!!! indicators on your old shed on wheels. I rewired my Series 1 to have separate indicator circuits front and rear and fitted cheapo modern side lights to test it all out. A suggestion was made to mount the indicator and brake light separately on the back window shelf and keep the original small ones in situ. As I only have one rear light I might look for a more sympathetic modification
Clarkey


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 19 February, 2017, 06:28:57 PM
Jim, I was chatting to Dog about the same thing earlier today. I want it to be utterly original to start with and then I can (may/ may not) add a completely separate circuit afterwards that is independent, including separate indicator switch, but I do take your point !

On the same subject and calling to all you auto-electricians/electronic wizards out there, here is a simplified wiring diagram for the indicator switch and brake/indicator circuits

Flasher unit:
I believe that P = dash light, so P on the unit connects to the bulb and grounds
L = load/unit supply and is intermittent because of the bi-metallic strip

Dash unit:
A & B I think are for an electromagnet that hold the shuttle in place and creates a contact across either 4&5 (RHS) or 2&3 (LHS)
The brake light switch creates a circuit between 1 & 3 and 4

The indicator cancel unit :
I think that this sends power to A or B on the electromagnet which breaks the circuit and the shuttle inside the dash unit returns to the centre and breaks the contact with the indicators

What I don't know (and there is a lot) is how the brake light circuit is interrupted when the flasher is on so the brake lights stay on on one side and flash on the chosen side

So far it all works, but I would like to know how it does !




Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 19 February, 2017, 07:05:34 PM

If you do build a separate system ahead of an epic trip the LED stuff is really good now.

http://www.dynamoregulatorconversions.com/online-shop-for-led-bulbs-and-light-boards-etc.php

The trafficator bulbs with integral flasher circuits are genius.  Tom has yet to put that film up yet but here's his conversion from loving the warm yellow glow of his headlights to feeling safe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXw1m7I8uHs


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - Indicators
Post by: simonandjuliet on 20 February, 2017, 04:18:46 PM
Further to the "indicator story", I received an email from a fellow French Lancisti who follows this post and he was good enough to send me some explanatory notes (in French) . I am not sure if Carello , a French supplier , or indeed Jean-Noel Avice wrote them , I must remember to ask .....

However J-N was happy that I translate and share them here (I have modified them slightly to make them relevant to Appia owners as well) :

"CARELLO Indicator Switch

As fitted to LANCIA AURELIA B 24 (also fitted to Appia S1 & furgoncino with minor wiring variations)

The CARELLO switch (Brevetato no. 18535) is powered by a 12v supply and is particularly complex and fragile because of the large number of contacts in such a small space . It consists of four independent electrical circuits which require a high degree of insulation from one another.

FESTOON BULB CIRCUIT: it is supplied by n° 5  fuse and feeds the internal switch light ,ie the small bulb that illuminates the transparent plastic lever that operates the switch; The 12V, 2Watt internal bulb (Ba 7s or Ba9s) receives 12V at terminal "P", the earth being on the metal casing of the switch. It is important to ensure that there is a very good, independent earth for this connection.

(On the Appia, the supply is slightly different, connection P on the flasher unit is used instead of  n° 5 fuse as above.)

FLASHER CIRCUIT: it is supplied by the intermittent supply coming from the flasher unit (fuse no. 9); This wire connects to the terminal "L" which In turn supplies:

                                     - for LHS, connections 2 and 3
                                     - for RHS, connections 4 and 5

            (4 and 3 are the rear indicators - 2 and 5 the front indicators)

AUTOMATIC INDICATOR RETURN CIRCUIT: This is an electromagnetic circuit supplied from fuse n° 9 to connection “54” on the “Carello” lever-switch located above the steering column in the engine compartment.

(NB the lever is moved by a pair of lobes attached to a ring on the steering column, fitted directly below the indicator return switch)

In the mid-position, this switch supplies current to both A and B connections on this switch, which in turn supplies terminals A and B on the dashboard indicator switch (A and B are permanently supplied).

- When the indicator lever is pushed to the right (ie right turn), this closes the electromagnetic coil circuit from terminal A and the lever is held to the right (by the electromagnetic field).
- When the steering wheel is turned to the left, the lobe located on the steering column moves the lever on the indicator return switch which then cuts the power supply to A. The dashboard indicator lever automatically returns to the middle position, stopping the indicators on the right side.
 (The same applies for turning left but using connection B).

BRAKE LIGHT CIRCUIT: with the indicator lever in the mid position, the two internal contact plates are also centred and are connected to the large central brass contact. When the brake pedal is depressed and the electro-hydraulic switch on the master cylinder is closed, current arrives at terminal 1. Supply comes from fuse n° 9

(in turn this completes the circuits to both brake lights)

When braking and indicating to the right, for example, only the left, internal contact plate moves and supplies the right indicator, while the right inner contact plate remains connected to the central contact, thus supplying the left brake light only.

In summary, the Carello indicator/brake light switch is of extraordinary complexity and fragility.

For after sales service, contact our suppliers:
- CARELLO in MILANO (Italy)
- NANO ELECTRIC CONCEPT in SAINT-PAVACE (FRANCE)

NB: A complete overhaul of the unit requires the cleaning and deoxidation of 16 contacts and the cleaning of 9 round contacts.
This does not include:
- possible rewinding of the coil of the electromagnet (separate quote)
- overhaul of the Carello lever switch located above the steering column (separate quote)
- For reliability and to bring the system up to today’s road standards, a hazard warning system can be incorporated using a 3 pole “Aurelia” style switch on the dashboard (separate quote)"


I hope that is clear !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 23 February, 2017, 06:29:20 PM
A long and frustrating day today, but I eventually won through

We were bottling the 2015 wines earlier in the week so not had time to do much for a few days...... and the day after we were too tired to do anything

I had an issue with the last indicator (3 working as they should, 4th not playing ball). Whilst investigating the cause, the rest of the electrics stopped working !

After disconnecting and reconnecting everything at source, the problem was found to be a dry/broken/intermittent connection on one of the bridges on the fusebox. I had already repaired one half of the bridge but the problem was the other side, so I remade the second terminal on the bridge

Once that was done I started again on the indicator problem which was finally found to be a poor contact inside the electromagnetic switch, so that was taken apart again. At least I had a better idea what I was doing this time and my homework meant that I knew how to test it as I was going along.

So to summarise 7 hours work - now, it all works as it should !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 23 February, 2017, 06:57:56 PM
Have to admire your patience at working through these problems. Or are the locals getting used to strange foreign expletives floating across the vineyards?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: the.cern on 23 February, 2017, 07:37:01 PM
Dear Simon, thank you for your explanation of the workings of the indicator switch ... I have just taken out my brain and put it in the fridge in the hope that it will be cooled down sufficiently for normal use by tomorrow morning!!!

                      Andy


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 23 February, 2017, 08:32:04 PM
Have to agree Andy, Simons trials and tribulations, then the resolution of same will prove invaluable over the coming months, so a big thank you from me too!

P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: fay66 on 23 February, 2017, 09:11:50 PM
Dear Simon, thank you for your explanation of the workings of the indicator switch ... I have just taken out my brain and put it in the fridge in the hope that it will be cooled down sufficiently for normal use by tomorrow morning!!!

                      Andy
And there was me thinking Lancia over engineered components :o

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 27 February, 2017, 05:26:35 PM
Thanks for your comments, like most of us, you have to work your way through a lot of these things because there is not much written. I was lucky that after I'd had my first stab at understanding it all, Jen-Noel came to the rescue !

I have now fitted 2 of 4 doors, the back one this time

As always , lots of little things to do:
New brass studs and new lens on one of the rear lights, they are a bit tarnished but nicely patinated ! Aurelia owners will tell you that these are wickedly expensive to replace !
Handle fitted - lock works
Number plate surround cleaned and fitted, similar for the aluminium surround for the rear glass. These are both held in place with the tiny self tappers. For the rear screen, the tips were ground off the screws so they don't rip the new rubbers. This strip is set on DumDum to ensure no leaks
The top and bottom locator plates were removed and cleaned/painted as were the hinge rubber plates
New seals made for the doors
All polished and then waxoyled
Connected up the wires and conduit
Last thing was to fit - I had to fit the pins twice because I put the wrong colours in - Doh !

Next is to fit the glass and prison bars and move onto the next one - I reckon it will be easier to fit the glass with the door rigid


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: dannels on 27 February, 2017, 06:54:23 PM
Hi Simon,

I was very interested to read about your indicator switch. I have exactly the same set up on my early Flaminia GT. whilst the switch works - it only functions when held in the left or right position. It seems the electromagnetic part is no longer functioning. Given your experience - can you advise me on the best place to start to revive it?

Many thanks & a fantastic thread!

Cheers
Dave


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: chriswgawne on 27 February, 2017, 07:00:32 PM
We have the same indicator switch on Jackys B24S Convertible and I have found that it's very important that the contacts are clean with no dust or suchlike.
Chris


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 27 February, 2017, 07:16:42 PM
As Chris says, I would ensure everything was clean and has decent earths, then I would check if you have 12v to the A & B terminals on the switch (with ignition on) if you don't , check the column return switch. It should have a supply to no 54 (from fuse) if not check the fuse/supply
If you do, then there should be supply to both the other terminals - if there isn't then the return switch is the problem

If you have 12v to A&B on the switch then the electromagnetic coils can be faulty and will need to be rewound

Hope that helps


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 01 March, 2017, 06:15:39 PM
Nothing to do with indicators you'll be glad to hear !

I am starting to think about details like the tool kit. I have most of the spanners but the screwdrivers are difficult to find and those that I have seen, were not brilliant quality anyway .....

So I was recently browsing tool websites (sounds dodgy , I know !) and came across a promo for FACOM (sounds even more dodgy) wooden handled screwdrivers.

They are excellent, lovely chrome, "knock-through", lifetime guarantee etc and they worked out at less than £7 each - very old school !

I am gradually upgrading all my tools and really like FACOM, and the returns service for the "lifetime guarantee"  is excellent, if needed.

(I may have bought some other bits as well .......)



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: chriswgawne on 01 March, 2017, 07:06:11 PM
Love those wooden handles screwdrivers Simon. I think I will try to pick up a set for myself if they ship to either Italy or the UK.
Chris


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: chriswgawne on 03 March, 2017, 11:21:51 AM
I meant to mention that I have a used one of these Carello 18535 switches in working order if anyone is stuck.
Chris


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 06 March, 2017, 07:21:11 AM
2nd back door fitted - anyone spot the deliberate mistake ?



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 06 March, 2017, 08:09:54 AM
Exhaust tail pipe (?) waiting of a fish tail extension trim???


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: SanRemo78 on 06 March, 2017, 08:48:24 AM
Handles on the wrong sides? The one with the lock should be on the right hand door?

Guy


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: chriswgawne on 06 March, 2017, 08:53:34 AM
Does it have rear bumpers Simon?
Chris


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: mikeC on 06 March, 2017, 08:56:28 AM
Yes, I'll go for the locking handle on the wrong door,too.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 06 March, 2017, 09:10:52 AM
seems I should have done my homework.... although this one has windows.....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 06 March, 2017, 11:16:09 AM
Yes , well done !

Handles on the wrong way round ..... photo shows the cranked,inside door handle next to the lock-lever. Fortunately there is no trim so it took 10 mins to change. I just got covered in waxoyl - I was a bit heavy handed with it

Chris, as you saw, there is a "bumper" - I have been looking at this today. The first set of mounting bolts that I made were not strong enough so I will need a re-design. The metal flange distorted when I tightened them so will need heavier gauge and more profiling I think

Tim, mine will have windows on Wednesday ...... and maybe a "fishtail" soon - waiting on some photos from one of our members

Just putting the passenger door together - hope it keeps raining !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 06 March, 2017, 11:27:32 AM
Thought you wisely left the windows out just in case the lock jammed and you had to open from the inside....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 06 March, 2017, 04:21:50 PM
Tim, that did go through my mind especially since the Fido guard is in place

Handles correctly displayed

Passenger is re-assembled and ready to go on once I have wheels back and painted so the van can be turned around. Wheels hopefully back from the paint stripper's tomorrow

The order for re-assembly that I used was

1/ Clean everything
2/ Fit inside window trim
3/ Fit wind deflector
4/ Fit outer, lower trim
5/ Fit furry channel
6/ Slot in glass - front edge first
7/ Move glass to bottom of door and fit the winder mechanism (in low position)
8/ Move glass/winder mechanism into channel - nb remove the screw from the bottom of the leading channel
9/ Fit winder and replace channel screw - nb screw length is critical esp the top left (or top right on other door) - if it jams , this is likely problem
10/ Make up and glue in the weatherstrip
11/ Wind up and down to test !

This side was quite a lot more difficult than the driver's side, for some reason (ie I don't know why ...) the wind deflector glass didn't go right up to the frame. It was very close, but it meant that I had to shave 1/2 mm off the lower frame to make it fit



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 08 March, 2017, 09:33:09 PM
Dog had a couple of hours this morning to help fit the the rear windows and spray underseal on the rear wings

We have had new rubbers made for the rear doors and they fit very well. I have still to fit the infills, but that's tomorrow's job after pruning - rain has stopped !

The first window took 15 mins to fit using the drawstring-alone technique, but the second only took 5 minutes. Because the radii are quite tight, the new rubber creases slightly, so we found that pushing the rubber with a plastic spatula at the crease point greatly improved the fit

The slightly scary photo of Dog hopefully demonstrates this revised technique

The spray sealant that we have been using gives a good approximation of the original underseal, and now I can fit the rear wings definitively.

Lastly, the wheels have been stripped , so I will collect them tomorrow


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 09 March, 2017, 12:40:22 PM
Just noticed the nice shiny UK reg plate you've taken the trouble to fit. Is it just there until it's registered in France? Nice to see fresh underseal going on - keeps reminding me I should Waxoyl my Fulvia again. This Furgoncino now has many driving years ahead of it thanks to your efforts.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 13 March, 2017, 03:50:50 PM
Stan - I did register the van in the UK to help with French registration, all in my name and up to date V5 and so on. I was helped in that process by the change to MOT for pre-1960 cars. Because an MOT was no longer required it enabled me to get a V5

Interestingly (and not wanting to restart the MOT or no MOT discussion !!) the French have just re-introduced the same requirement.

That is from 24th Feb 2017, pre 1960 cars with Carte Grise de Collection (Historic vehicle V5) are no longer required to pass a Controle Technique (MOT). So I am now wondering if I can register my car before I get the CT (see below !). The big advantage to this is that I can fully insure the car for driving to the MOT station, because I can only get limited insurance on UK plates. Plus it means that I can start the whole process now because it can take a while. I have been in touch with the prefecture to ask if I can do this , but they don't know because I am the first to ask !

Re CT, I will do a CT on the van (although not required) to sanity check and verify everything that I have done. Another interesting point is that the FFVE (Federation Francaise de Vehicules d'Epoch) have been working with some CT stations and insurance companies to introduce a CTV (Controle Technique Volontaire) for pe-60 cars.

It will cost 40 euros and the insurance companies involved have agreed to reduce premiums by 8 euros /year for the 5 years that the CTV is "valid"

Back to progress ! I am now at a block. I can't do anything else until the wheels/tyres are back on, so it means that I can upgrade my mountain bicycle (moving from 3x10 gears to 1x11 gears for those who are interested !) and start the interior and roof on the Cabrio

But  a couple of finished jobs are the rear window in-fillers, bars and central door rubbers

The central rubbers were a potential issue because the rubbers that I thought were correct were not ! However with Koen's (plus thanks for the photo below) help I was able to identify the correct rubbers and find them tucked away in a box of cast off "rubbish" that came with the furgoncino and more importantly clean them up and re-use them.

They are very slightly different to the set up on Koen's car, but as far as I can make out were those fitted from new. Now we just need to find similar sections to help out other van-owners

Lastly, I have swapped the rear light lenses from Carellos to Bellus because the Carellos are very delicate and stick out on the corner. They are at great risk of being bumped and broken and are hugely expensive if you can find them. So I had a pair of (to my mind, more attractive) lenses that I have fitted instead. The are redder, thicker and more squat so will be much more resilient day to day, so until she is properly on the road these will do

If anyone has a spare Bellu (or indeed Carello) lens 03 565 220 I would be interested !

And very lastly (!) a big "Thank you" to Stan who has been responsible for our wine's artwork and that includes this wonderful magnetic sign that will adorn the van - still needs a slight trim !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 13 March, 2017, 06:01:12 PM
love the mag sign (writing)!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Jaydub on 13 March, 2017, 08:25:38 PM
Likewise, love the sign and I have to say what a fantastic job you are doing Simon, it looks so good and will be a great advert for your business.
I am always impressed by the workmanship of Lancia owners, who I guess for whom restoration is not their main occupation. Fantastico!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 14 March, 2017, 08:36:43 AM
Got "compare" pics of the two rear lights?

NEARLY there now...


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 15 March, 2017, 09:05:46 AM
Will do David !

Update on new MOT rules. A first CT (MOT) is required for all vehicles being imported into France, irrespective of age

Certificat de conformité or attestations ( certificates) are available from the FCA site. I have completed the online form, uploaded the docs and photos and paid 65 euros. Apparently this will take 10 days .....

A certificat d'acquisition is also required - bit like a NOVA

So need to get wheels painted and fitted (plus a few other details like the passenger door !) and then MOT time


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 20 March, 2017, 06:27:19 PM
Wheels collected from paint-stripper - there's another story - and Dog has prepped and primed them. Hopefully top coat later this week

Applied for certificate of authentication from FIAT France , so paperwork started .....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - Starter motor
Post by: simonandjuliet on 31 March, 2017, 06:58:51 AM
Re paperwork, Lancia France do not know of the existence of furgoncinos (I think mine is the only one in the country), so I have to back to Italy for a certificate of authenticity - from Lancia - before they can issue the certificate of authenticity in France. Why I have to do it I am not sure, surely an internal email would be better  !

Back to a perennial Appia issue - Starter Motors.

I had an initial issue with the original motor not fully disengaging (lazy solenoid) and put on a working spare, however this has since caused grief

It became more and more sluggish and eventually wouldn't turn the engine over. Solenoid worked but no more. It felt like a flat battery, so before anything else I checked for "battery-drain" - done by fitting ammeter in line as I re-connected the battery. No movement so no short or anything taking current , so unlikely to be flat battery

Yesterday I replaced the "spare" motor with my repaired original and took the top off the spare

There is a "bridge" that connects 2 of the 4 brushes and it sits on another of the brushes. It should be insulated but the insulation had broken down. These bridges often burn out or break and are difficult to repair.

Fortunately I have a new spare bridge - we managed to source some new ones for the Consortium recently as well as making new brush sets, so I can repair this and have my spare back.



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 31 March, 2017, 09:26:33 AM
Quick and simple job; replace the brush plate, clean commutator and test - working spare back on the shelf .....

Plus a photo of a nice secondhand "queue de carp" or fishtail that I picked up last week. Cast aluminium , "ROBRI" make.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 31 March, 2017, 09:57:45 AM
More great work Simon, the exhaust tail, I seem to remember having one on a Traction 25 plus years ago!

P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancianut666 on 31 March, 2017, 12:27:20 PM
These starter motors are in need of an upgrade I wonder if it is possible to soup them up a bit, mine struggled with a new battery to spin the collection of moving parts that was the engine in my car with no compression on 3 of the cylinders... wonder how it will cope with a rebored block and new bearings...
Clarkey


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 31 March, 2017, 03:20:29 PM
Promised this for David a while ago - The different rear lights;  LHS is correct Carello lens, RHS the alternative

What worries me is that the originals really stick out and are very easy to catch and break, they are more proud than the "bumper".

Initial plan is to use the flat ones day to day and have the others in the car for special occasions !

Also fitted the fishtail, but how far should that stick out ? The bumper is only 1/2 thick, you can't hide it under the bumper like you can with a normal Appia/Aurelia etc


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: frankxhv773t on 31 March, 2017, 06:34:16 PM
I actually think the "alternative" lens looks more like it belongs there. I was reviewing your work on the radiator and I wondered what you did about the little rubber buffers on the shutters. My Flaminia ones have biodegraded.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 01 April, 2017, 10:00:15 AM
Hi Frank
I used an 8mm sponge rubber rod, fitted and then trimmed on both mine. It is notoriginal , but works and is quick, cheap and simple. I am currently looking into a supply of the correct grommets. I will post a reply once I have them

If you look at page 13 of the "Everyday Appia" you can see how I made them - you can make them as long or short as you want

 Re: Everyday Appia
« Reply #186 on: 08 October, 2014, 04:30:59 PM » (http://Re: Everyday Appia
« Reply #186 on: 08 October, 2014, 04:30:59 PM »)


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: frankxhv773t on 03 April, 2017, 08:38:41 PM
Thanks Simon, that seems a very practical solution.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 10 April, 2017, 10:38:06 AM
Hi Simon,

I was very interested to read about your indicator switch. I have exactly the same set up on my early Flaminia GT. whilst the switch works - it only functions when held in the left or right position. It seems the electromagnetic part is no longer functioning. Given your experience - can you advise me on the best place to start to revive it?

Many thanks & a fantastic thread!

Cheers
Dave
Excellent write up in April VL - captured for posterity!!!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 15 April, 2017, 09:28:31 AM
Thanks Tim
Even though I wrote it, it still seems complicated !

I have been very patient for the last month or so since I took the wheels off. Once the tyres were off, they went to the paint stripper who managed to "lose" one - it took over a week to find it ....... bit stressful

Anyway, once back they were prepped , etched, 2-pack primed and then finally painted last week, since then they have been sitting in the sunshine to bake before today's tyre fitting. I stayed with the fitter to make sure it was done carefully. They were mounted upside down on the machine so as to minimise any risk of damage. It makes the valves (tubes) more difficult to locate, but it  is only a bit extra hassle.

I have chosen not to balance them just yet, I want to give them a run first and then go back

Once back they have been cleaned and fitted and look great ! The car has been turned round in the garage and now I can fit the passenger door and finish some other details before MOT time



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 15 April, 2017, 11:08:13 AM
Looking good! Bars at the back indicate precious cargo or dangerous animal!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 17 April, 2017, 12:00:35 PM
Looks superb. Must be amongst the best out there. What better cargo for an Italian van than boxes of wine?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 17 April, 2017, 05:40:47 PM
Looks great Simon. What colour did you paint the wheels? Did you colour match or go for the Ford Alpaca beige. (The colour looks very similar to the Ford colour)
The tyres suit the van very well too, which make are they?
I presume you still have to peel the backing (or front) off of the sign writing? or are they magnetic?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 17 April, 2017, 07:02:18 PM
Ade, I colour matched the wheels. Several had perfect paint on the inside so I am confident they are near as dammit. I have a recipe but no name

The tyres were a headache, I was keen to retain the narrow, upright, high profile, plus I wanted a "commercial" tyre, so I went with a Camac 600-16C. The other option was a Michelin X , but not quite right to my mind, nor was the 16 " London Taxi tyre

The commercial tyre means that I can carry plenty of "precious cargo" as well, I think the van is homologated for about 800 kgs or roughly 800 bottles of wine - No mean tasque task ! (sorry)

And yes, the sign writing is magnetic and still needs to be trimmed

Another little job is to do the red stripes,  still debating paint or the "Blue Peter" special - sticky backed plastic .......


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 23 April, 2017, 01:10:52 PM
Finished re-plumbing the house and re-doing Mathilda's bathroom and have booked a CT (MOT) for a week on Tuesday !

Still lots of detail to do, but nothing like having a deadline .....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 24 April, 2017, 06:59:19 PM
First job is to get the passenger door seals fitted, so the plastic 'u' channel was formed by flipping the formers used for the driver's side and molding the channel using a heat gun

Once done the rubber section was pushed in using one of the myriad of new dentist's tools I have - I bought the contents of an old dentist surgery ....... any one have any ideas for uses for crowns and denture molds ??

Channel/rubbers glued in place

Dog is coming here tomorrow evening to help hang the door


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: frankxhv773t on 24 April, 2017, 08:12:22 PM
Given all the skills you have acquired so far on this journey I imagine conquering dentistry would be a doddle so with all the right tools now you ought to set up your own practice. The money is supposed to be seriously good and as a unique selling point you could supply copious quantities of wine as a natural anaesthetic.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 24 April, 2017, 08:44:36 PM

Lancia sign looks good on the inside of the garage door...


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 25 April, 2017, 11:29:16 AM
The furgoncino looks immaculate peeping out of the garage door. As you seem to slighlty overlap projects and this one is almost there what about hunting around for a 3RO for those bigger wine deliveries? Hope you're going to spray a bit of champagne over the bows of the furgoncino if all goes well with the CT and I'll be very surprised if it doesn't.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: tzf60 on 26 April, 2017, 12:57:04 PM
Simon, I have a dental appointment for next week. Having just seen your pictures, I think I'll cancel..... :-\
 
Lovin' the voyage!
 
Tim


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: peteracs on 26 April, 2017, 03:07:31 PM
Hi Simon

Amazing stuff as ever, hope the posts will just keep coming.

I too bought some old dentist tools a few years ago (not the complete set thankfully) and it is amazing what you find use for them on. The last car job was getting old seals and spring out of the Beta front calipers.

Peter


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Neil on 26 April, 2017, 03:24:01 PM
I see you have fitted yellow bulbs or filters to the Furgoncino's headlamps, surely not required for a CT any more in France?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 27 April, 2017, 06:48:31 AM
It is a bit of an affectation ..... I really like seeing yellow headlamps at dusk/night because it means that something interesting may be coming down the road

With decent, new lenses they should be half decent as well

Good couple of days in the garage, just waiting on some bits to arrive from Italy. I will post a few pics later. I was amused to see that I am not the only one to buy up old dental equipment - my wife thinks I'm mad


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 27 April, 2017, 09:04:02 AM
I was amused to see that I am not the only one to buy up old dental equipment - my wife thinks I'm mad
Maybe the amusement will be seeing the queues of Aude ex pats wanting to have their teeth done post Brexit!!!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 27 April, 2017, 05:19:57 PM
Tim, I even bought all the white coats , so I will look the part as well ..... plus the drill makes all the right noises !

Gradually working through my (lengthy) finishing list. The most time consuming has been the door seals. They keep fighting back. The knack has been to glue a section in place , leave it to dry and then move on to the next section. I just don't have enough hands. I have been using Sikaflex this time, no Tiger Seal available, I found that using best quality contact adhesive didn't really work and was messy.

There are enough other things to do to allow drying time.

Similarly, I have found a nice solution to fitting the vertical door seals. They were originally fitted onto a cardboard insert in the door channel, but I have used a soft foam rubber, self adhesive (see "not enough hands" above) section and then fitted the rubber and aluminium trim. The good thing is that it gives you some adjustment, the lip can be pulled in or released by tightening/loosening the screws.

Lovely detail is the little stainless bracket that holds the top 1/2" in place where it extends beyond the channel

It does mean that once all the seals are fitted the doors need a firm push to close .....

There are 2 elongated coil springs per door that hold the door wide open, they fit on the top and bottom hinges and took a little while to find the best way of fitting. After that everything was waxoyled and the covers were replaced

The door mirrors are a delight. Lovely chrome-backed mirrors (convex on driver's side) on long , sculpted arms attached to cast aluminium bases and pivoted on brass bolts and domed nuts. Economic madness !

The bodywork is now completely re-assembled - too much detail to note - and headlight retaining rims and new rubbers fitted etc etc

This afternoon has been spent trying to get the petrol gauge to work, but I think that may be another "indicator-switch" story and will need to wait until I have a few minutes to get my head around it

Last couple of jobs have been to make a new petrol cap seal and fit the suspension oilers and sliding pillar caps


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 28 April, 2017, 09:05:01 AM
It looks a real beaut Simon. It surely has to sail through the CT with this level of attention. Any idea how they dealt with the door seals originally? Or are you working with a non-original type which are causing the difficulty? Then again, knowing Lancia, they probably did let 12 men spend three days just doing the seals. Profit? What profit?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 28 April, 2017, 11:08:26 AM
I hadn't noticed how pointed the indicator lenses were. Weird but delightful


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 28 April, 2017, 02:56:29 PM

...and I think incorrect.  They are on some of the B20 series and produce a delightful star pattern when on.  I had them on "my" (from Simon, went to Jason and Louise Kennedy) 3rd series but can't remember if correct or again I just loved them so much.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Dikappa on 28 April, 2017, 06:43:02 PM
I think the indicators are correct David, my furgoncino has them too, just like the 1st series berlina  (so I've still got to find a few...)
The B21has other lenses, which I think are not correct.  I think it too should have the 'pointy' ones.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 01 May, 2017, 08:14:24 AM
David, I think they are correct, although period publicity (sketched) are not clear, but certainly the majority of period photos look similar. Who knows , but they are very nice !

Fuel gauge part works - the warning light come on as it should, but no level on the gauge. The tank sender was one of the very few parts missing when I bought the car and so a 3rd series unit has gone in. I do not know yet if this is the problem or I still have an issue with the wiring. The wires were all disconnected and the diagram isn't much help. Added to that , the 1st and 2nd series wiring is different. So more fettling required

Yesterday was spent on the brakes.

The car has not been used for nearly 40 years and although the wheel cylindres were replaced at the early part of its restoration in 2007 (before me) I think that standing all this time did them no favours. I ran a hone through them and replaced the seals but there was still a seep, so I bit the bullet and bought new cylindres.

Furgoncinos share brakes with Aurelias  and the cylindres have been remanufactured by a renowned specialist but I have not been totally happy with them. One "exploded" shortly after fitting, filling the drum with brake fluid and another proved very difficult to seal. My feeling is that the banjo bolt hole is not exactly 90° thus not allowing the banjo to seat properly. I have removed, reset and re-annealed the washers several times. It is OK now but what a pain .....

The supplier has refunded payment very promptly and has said that they have never seen this before, so hopefully it is a one-off

Anyway, I can replace a wheel cyl very quickly now , so here are a couple of pointers for a front (very little room at the back because of the sliding pillar) and apologies if I am teaching grandmother to suck eggs !

In order to reduce the bleeding, I clamp the flexi-hose
Back off the adjusters
Remove the drum
Clamp the shoes with a sash cramp
Long screwdriver on the hub and onto the spring lip, remove the pin
Release sash cramp
Undo the bleed nipple, and then the 2 14mm bolts
Withdraw the cylinder
Grip the cyl and undo the flexi
Remove the old cyl , replace with the new
Tighten flexi - don't worry if the flexi is twisted, this is sorted in a moment
Bolt the cyl in place and replace bleed nipple
Position and re-clamp the shoes with the sash cramp
Stretch the spring with the long screwdriver - but I don't try and fit the pin straight away, I use a fine screwdriver to locate the spring first
Re-position the long screwdriver to ensure it doesn't slip, then stretch the spring and refit the pin
Refit the drum
With the reservoir plunger lifted, remove the pipe clamp and slacken off the mounting nut on the flexi/copper pipe joint then quickly and under pressure, slacken off the copper pipe nut and rotate the flexi to remove any twist, then re-tighten.
The joint will leak whilst you do this but if you are quick it is very little and no air gets in.
Bleed as usual

Apart from one door card/furniture and the rear "bumper" I am ready for the CT tomorrow. I have found a solution for the bolts that hold the bumper on ,but will leave that for a couple of days because I don't want to rush it







Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 03 May, 2017, 11:23:11 AM
Well, the "fettler's voyage" is nearly at an end ......

This morning I took her for a test run and then down to the testing station. It is almost exactly 4 years since she arrived here on the back of a trailer and in boxes , and almost 40 years since she last moved under her own steam.

Everything works beautifully, a couple of body rattles but that's about all. She makes a lovely raspy/flatulent noise with the fish-tail which changes as she warms up. The gears all work smoothly , no whine from the diff and front suspension that doesn't rattle - at all.
Brakes are strong and true. The engine is very tight - new everything - so the shutters open. I am running without a thermostat for a while and will probably refit it once the engine is run in and the head has been tightened down.

Maybe the 58,000 kms are correct ??

I have completed the service card (found a stock of original 50's and 60's cards) under the bonnet and plan to change the oil and filter in about 500 miles

I am still waiting on paperwork to arrive from Italy so that hopefully I can get her registered here, but this morning I couldn't even get her tested because there was no "type approval number" on the V5 - Wonderful bureaucracy ...... 

It has taken a while to get this point, but I did buy and rebuild another Appia in the meantime.





Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 03 May, 2017, 11:26:43 AM

No shame in the four years - and we all know the reason for the other was to practice for this...

Hopefully this one will see some serious use.  Double the mileage in the next four years?

The question now...with it on the road...is what title for the "voyages" thread?

David


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: the.cern on 03 May, 2017, 11:32:40 AM
Well done Simon, truly magnificent ..... both the effort and the end result!!!

OK, so nothing to get in the way of 'Here we go again' now!!!

                                    Andy


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 03 May, 2017, 12:00:36 PM
Was it really 4 years? Time flies when you are enjoying yourself ;)

Excellent outcome.

I will want a drive in a couple of weeks!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Parisien on 03 May, 2017, 12:24:57 PM
Fantastique!

A great credit to you and "team" Dog.

Wishing you many happy and safe kilometres!

P


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 03 May, 2017, 03:49:41 PM
I can't believe it's 4 years either since I saw the photos of its arrival! I had to check page 1 to see if the thread started later but it didn't. So French bureaucracy strikes again but so close now. I bet you enjoyed that drive after all this time. Is the shortest route to the CT station really via Carcassonne, Perpignan, Beziers??


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 03 May, 2017, 04:10:16 PM
Yes really is 4 years

Ironically, I can use the van as much as I want to because it is road legal in the UK and is therefore OK here for a while. I do have another appointment at the test centre next week, so hopefully the appropriate papers will have arrived by then

Sticky backed plastic arrived today so red stripes when I have a moment


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 09 May, 2017, 01:27:07 PM
Certificat d'originalité arrived from Italy this morning so the furgoncino was re-presented for it controle technique and ......

Passed with no remarks or returns. In fact he said that he couldn't find anything wrong at all ! Was surprised at how good the brakes are - they aren't even run in yet

So just got to sort out the French registration now

First photo is in her new , natural surroundings, second shows the brake performance. After a few kms I will re-adjust the shoes to get the balance even better



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 09 May, 2017, 01:54:37 PM
Impeccable!



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 09 May, 2017, 02:24:07 PM
Superb. A real credit to all your hard work - and Dog. The worst I could think of might happen is a headlight beam slightly out. My Fulvia CT is coming up soon. I fear it will disgrace itself next to its ancient relative. Go and have a well-earned relax and a drink. I'm sure you can find some wine somewhere.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: SanRemo78 on 09 May, 2017, 03:00:57 PM
Congratulations!

Good job there's a thread about the ongoing restoration of an Aprilia Cabriolet to follow....

Hope you have many many years of fun with this Appia now!

Guy


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 09 May, 2017, 03:55:50 PM
It looks Fantastic Simon, however I am just a little bit worried that you will be over-weight if you try to get all that wine into the van when you come on the Sliding Pillar  ;D


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 09 May, 2017, 06:59:49 PM
Just had another look at the photo and noticed the beautiful curve of the top of the bumper following the body shape. They just didn't know when to stop.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Dikappa on 09 May, 2017, 08:13:14 PM
fanTASQUE!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 10 May, 2017, 07:25:48 PM
"FanTASQUE" - very good !

We are off on a LCF (Lancia Club France) rally this weekend, bit last minute but should be fun. Mike and Denise Jennings are back from Oz so will be there in their Fulvia Sport as well



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 15 May, 2017, 11:42:34 AM
Fun trip out this weekend, nice start to the running in. The "sortie" was centred around Pic St Loup famous for its wines, beautiful countyside and tooth-shaped peak

We had 15 or so cars including a 2nd ser B20, Flaminia 2.8 3C touring a good number of Fulvias, 2 MonteCarlos and a Thema station wagon, Delta HPE plus the furgoncino

A lovely couple of days and the weather behaved !

Photo of Mike and Denise in St Martin de Londres

I did about 500 kms and the only issues I had were a slightly blocked intermediate jet and a petrol leak from the banjo bolt on the front of the carb. Too early to test petrol consumption, but she used 1/2 pint of oil (new engine) and a tiny drop of water.

She drives beautifully but is very slow ! 90kph effective top speed ......

It was strange jumping back into the 3rd series today, she only has the 4 speed box and it is completely backwards t the 5 speed in the furgoncino - 1st on the van is 3rd on the 3rd series and reverse is 2nd on the van !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 15 May, 2017, 01:51:17 PM

What a special event for an early run.  Love the group photo with your front on from above.  As for being slow its just a case of planning the route and stops...


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 16 May, 2017, 10:37:30 AM
Yes, 90kph is fine. Makes it a nice little Route Nationale cruiser. Far too much rushing about these days (I say, after blasting my Fulvia along my favourite sinuous roads on Sunday).  As David said, what a superb first official event. Very impressive line up of cars under the trees. Did you get any wine customers?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 16 May, 2017, 03:28:11 PM
Please deal with the petrol leak. No bush fires please!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 18 May, 2017, 07:34:46 PM
Petrol leak sorted by the side of the road before it got out of hand !

Little job today whilst Dog was on the Cabrio - fettling a new brake reservoir. Irritatingly, I bought a "rebuilt" unit that has always had a slow leak and lets the plunger drop over time.

I found a nice original label in Italy , so used it as a prompt to get a properly sealed and working reservoir.

New seals are available, so I honed the inner sleeve, cleaned and painted all the bits and put it back together. The labels are held on by 4 tags that slot through holes on the unit, however these more often than not get broken, so I have glued it in place with a couple of dabs of sikaflex and held it in place with cable ties until it is dry

Let's hope this one doesn't allow the plunger to drop


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 19 May, 2017, 08:47:46 AM
I love the fact that the label is so well made it has a part number. Not just a sticker fading and curling up with heat.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Dikappa on 22 May, 2017, 07:03:00 PM
I wonder whether the formula for the olio vegetale can be retrieved, as imo it was very good.  In the B21 I bought from Ron it was still there, and those parts were simply in very good condition, the pistons only needing new seals, but not pitted as usual...

Olive oil?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 22 May, 2017, 07:48:44 PM
Does anyone use vegetable oil now ? What was the name of that racing oil used by Bugattis - Castrol R ?? - was that vegetable based , smelt like it !

Another step forward today, French reg document arrived with my new registration - EM-268-NX, so I think she is going to be "Emma", interesting that she has the numbers "268" on both UK and French plates !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: frankxhv773t on 22 May, 2017, 07:53:53 PM
Castrol R is castor oil based and still available. According to the great wiki; Castor oil is a vegetable oil obtained by pressing the seeds of the castor oil plant (Ricinus communis).

I am pretty sure it is still in common use in vintage racing circles.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: SanRemo78 on 22 May, 2017, 09:08:45 PM
Another step forward today, French reg document arrived with my new registration - EM-268-NX, so I think she is going to be "Emma", interesting that she has the numbers "268" on both UK and French plates !

Sounds like a Two Ronnies sketch? F U N E X?, 9,V F M!

So, Ham & Eggs? ;D

Guy


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Mic on 23 May, 2017, 08:48:34 AM
For a year or two I used Castrol R in my 1929 Alfa.  The people to benefit were those following me who could really enjoy the scent.  As the driver you did not have that reward as you were too far ahead of the exhaust.

If you decide to try it most important is to clean out any old oil completely and never mix R with mineral oil.  When I eventually went back to mineral it took a long time to clean everything thoroughly as it left a thin film on crankcase almost like varnish, as well as the internals.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: LANCIA on 23 May, 2017, 05:28:56 PM
IO USO OLIO AL SILICONE  (  SINTOFLON  - SBF ) DOT 5,   NON ROVINA CILINDRETTI , GOMMINI E VERNICE.....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: nistri on 25 May, 2017, 09:43:08 AM
Castrol R is castor oil based and still available. According to the great wiki; Castor oil is a vegetable oil obtained by pressing the seeds of the castor oil plant (Ricinus communis).

I am pretty sure it is still in common use in vintage racing circles.


This is the oil type used for the rear lever damper on the Ardea, Andrea


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 25 May, 2017, 09:47:53 AM

This is the oil type used for the rear lever damper on the Ardea, Andrea

Moved on from Glycerine in Aprilia lever dampers....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 30 May, 2017, 04:54:19 PM
More miles and a few more details ....

Not everyone will like these, I have added the red stripes - but only sticky backed plastic ! Sorry photo of the front is a bit dark

She also has her new plates fitted

The army table/place settings (see previous post) have been added and finally I am working out how best to paint the "Lancia" script on the hubcaps. I have an old one to play with

Tomorrow - tighten head and check tappets etc



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Mic on 31 May, 2017, 10:07:57 AM
Sticky backed plastic?  The sadly late John Noakes wold have been proud of you.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 31 May, 2017, 08:19:27 PM
Still in mourning re JN - I was 10 in 1974 when he was at his peak , so I know what to do with sticky backed plastic and toilet roll tubes .....

Anyway, head torqued down, tappets reset, carb jets cleaned, brake reservoir replaced, new rocker covers fitted plus a few other details


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Dikappa on 01 June, 2017, 05:47:28 PM
Funny! did the very same today on the aurelia, but envy the little tool, is that still available somewhere?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: frankxhv773t on 01 June, 2017, 07:00:33 PM
As regards painting the hub caps, I suspect there is no substitute for a quiet evening, a small paint brush and a steady hand.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 03 June, 2017, 03:50:41 PM
Like the stripes - like putting decals on a 1:1 scale model - suddenly it's finished and really looks the part. I've dithered over putting 'Torino' stripes over my Fulvia for about 5 years. I've recently read that 2 pack paint doesn't fade so wouldn't leave tell-tale marks. Is this true? I think Frank is right about the hubcaps. A good enamel and a piece of damp turpy rag to wipe off any excess. Is the painted part impressed in slightly or is the whole word flush?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 06 June, 2017, 07:37:49 PM
Frank , I am sure you are right. Unfortunately I don't think I can get it done this week. Stan, I'm glad you like the stripes - I do too  so I will have to do them properly when I get back from the Sliding Pillar rally. Dog has told me how to do them correctly !!

Today I did one of the last jobs, and one I have been meaning to do for ages but have kept putting off.

I tried fitting the "bumper" a few weeks ago, but the brackets I made did not work because they were rigid 'T's and impossible to line up through the holes in the rear valence. So I made an articulated 'T' instead that has worked well, so all ready for the weekend !



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 07 June, 2017, 11:02:56 AM
How's that for timing? That's a great achievement. Have a safe and trouble-free run t'up North at the weekend.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 07 June, 2017, 02:42:07 PM
Looks great with the rear 'bumper' finally in place, looking forward to seeing it at the SPR.
We have, even allowing for sight seeing detours, only about 275 miles to drive, you have over 600, so it should be well run in by the time you arrive. Hope it goes well. see you there. A.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Dikappa on 07 June, 2017, 07:21:52 PM
I want to learn all about that rear bumper strip, I must remember to bring some material to measure it up!

Wish you a safe and troublefree trip Simon!

One more thing: everytime I see that beautifull Lancia sign hanging on your garage door, it makes me very nervous.  I would worry all the time about wind, or touching it with something while working or moving cars.  I recently laid hands on the very same, but will put it high up and very well attached!



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 14 June, 2017, 07:22:20 AM


Just seen the SPR photos.

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: chriswgawne on 14 June, 2017, 10:02:43 AM
A stupid question........but why is the Furgoncino quite so low geared? Is it connected to the weight it can carry? I always thought Appias generally were well suited to day to day travel ( but maybe not autostradas). It cant be anything to do with the body being significantly heavier than the standard saloons or can it?
Chris


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 14 June, 2017, 03:25:09 PM
Chris
Part of the answer is the diff ratio but also the gearboxes are quite different. Some of this may be offset by bigger wheels, but bottom line is that they are much lower geared (the ambulances more so) and are authorised to carry 940 kgs (furgoncino) or 1140 kg (camioncino)
I read somewhere that a second ser furgoncino can theoretically get to 105 kph at 4800 rpm - I won't be trying it !



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 16 June, 2017, 02:30:34 PM

What's an "all day long" cruising speed?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 16 June, 2017, 04:00:44 PM
About 80 kph and 50kph on steep hills. On the way back I did 6hrs with only 1 stop at these speeds

I reckon that I got about 29mpg as well (9.8 l/100kms), which isn't a disaster for a new engine. Book says 9.4 (or just over 30mpg) for the furgoncino and 8.1 (or 35mpg) for a 3rd series berlina


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 19 June, 2017, 09:21:57 AM
Look on the bright side - you won't have to keep scanning the verges for speed cameras.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 20 June, 2017, 04:27:56 PM
You haven't mentioned the special cargo you bought to the Sliding Pillar Rally, or the impromptu wine tasting.  ;D
I enjoyed a bottle of the Carignan at the weekend, I loved the cork!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: chriswgawne on 20 June, 2017, 05:55:52 PM
That's neat Simon. We cant match that as we are using 'plastic' corks which we then have to wire onto each bottle as our wine is Pinello Frizzante. What fun we have.
Chris


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 20 June, 2017, 09:47:00 PM

A steady 50 isn't too bad, if you can plan a flat route...


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 02 July, 2017, 12:04:29 PM
Replaced the throttle spring and took the furgoncino to a vide-grenier this morning

Spring a bit too light so try another one ......

My only purchase was this delightful (!) 1950's or 60's vacuum cleaner with accessories in its original box, an SEV Atom

I know it's sad but I really like it !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 02 July, 2017, 02:19:24 PM
If Lancia had made vacuum cleaners they would have looked like that. Carved wooden brush heads!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: ben on 04 July, 2017, 04:18:31 PM
I used to have something similar and you could plug the hose in at either end.
It came complete with a spray gun.
I never painted the car with it but I did use it to spray the walls with water when I was doing some plastering!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Dikappa on 04 July, 2017, 07:50:11 PM
I remember the spray gun equipped vacuum cleaner quite well, as one saturday I helped my father who damaged our volkswagen van having had a little too much to drink on a Friday evening so we fixed it up on saturday, sprayed it with the vacuum cleaner saturday evening, and went on a family trip sunday morning.... all without my mother ever knowing about it having been damaged!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: frankxhv773t on 05 July, 2017, 07:17:03 PM
Someone once used a vacuum cleaner like that to hoover out his boot but found out the hard way he had a fuel leak. The accumulated petrol fumes were sucked through the motor and turned it into a remarkably effective bazooka!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 07 August, 2017, 03:25:46 PM
Re hoover, we used one for spraying creosote on the fence and shed years ago as well

As part of label design and promotional materials for our domaine last year, Stan came up with a great idea for some postcard-flyers. The Aprilia is well known and comes from Hergé's "TinTin au Pays de L'Or Noir".
Now that the furgoncino is finished we are planning to redo the cards , so Mathilda and I went up to the vines for a promo shoot.

Hopefully we (ie Stan !) can come up with a more personalised postcard !

ps it really is as hot as the news is reporting ......



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 07 August, 2017, 03:41:52 PM
What about your Aprilia??!!! Cool and wet here.....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 18 August, 2017, 06:40:12 PM
I will try the Aprilia as well, but need to sort out the suspension first ....

A trip that I have been meaning to make for a while is meet up with  Alan Wesson, who sold me the furgoncino. He lives in Die in the southern Alpes so after I dropped Mathilda off for her climbing course I met up with him. I got to see his lovely unrestored, 1st series Appia and another 1st ser. that he has acquired recently - these time-warp cars still pop up from time to time

It was great fun following his 1927 Hudson down the road to his lock-up, it is big, "chromey" and has that American-car burble.

I collected the original furgoncino roofrack which I'd like to fit at some point and bought a couple of the exhaust fishtails that he sells on eBay.

You forget how big France is, and even in summer, how few people there are here. I drove for hours over mountain passes and more mountain passes and came across nobody !

Some highlights: Mt Ventoux, Col de l'Homme Mort, Col de Jean, Vaison la Romaine and La Canourge (Lozere) - put them on your holiday list !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 22 August, 2017, 10:40:34 AM
Fantastic - you were on Ventoux on a clear day. Being a cyclist I'm sure you stopped off at the Tommy Simpson memorial. Also you've solved a mystery. I remember visiting those Roman ruins but after all this time I could never remember where they were. Yes, France is deceptively big.......and empty.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: fay66 on 22 August, 2017, 03:46:52 PM
I see 496 YUH is still carrying her number from the !00th Anniversary in Turin 2006.
I don't know who printed the stickers for the windscreen that we also had, or what they are made of. but they are pretty indestructible for something on the outside, mine is still in amazing condition.

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 22 September, 2017, 07:48:03 PM
Brian - Alan said the same about the stickers !

Quick update - the furgoncino has been used regularly throughout the summer , just for short runs like this one today - delivering our wine to a local wine shop.

Full on at the moment with the harvest - no Appias involved, just the Ercole and R4 Rodeo


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: williamcorke on 08 January, 2018, 03:03:27 PM
Some pictures in the ad I'm linking to here showing a Furgoncino keeping good company (no more than deserved, of course).

https://www.classicdriver.com/en/car/lancia/appia/1955/504718 (https://www.classicdriver.com/en/car/lancia/appia/1955/504718)


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Sebastien on 08 January, 2018, 04:36:23 PM
Reminds me - there is one for sale in Switzerland:

http://www.parts4toys.com/site/carsDetail/184.html?p=1

Asking price I was told is 25'000 EUR.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 08 January, 2018, 04:51:29 PM
You don't see one for sale for ages and then 2 come along ...... both 1st series as well


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 08 January, 2018, 09:05:20 PM
Good sets of pictures.  Thankyou.

Details I forgot: sweet indicators on the front wings, wheels and tyres look HUGE.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 28 March, 2018, 08:18:00 PM
I've been quiet here for a while, but the Appia still gets used regularly. Today for the bottling of the 2016 vintage

The grapes/juice/wine that started in Sept 2016 has been maturing gracefully in tank or barrel until today when it went into bottle. We had a small bottling line on a lorry turn up at 7am this morning to do our wines and our neighbour's wine.

The house was taken over by boxes and the furgoncino did a lot of the ferrying of dry goods around the village. Mathilda was forced into work as well - a real family effort

2016 is a big wine and should be ready to drink in 2020


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 02 May, 2018, 07:08:01 PM
A day of breakdowns ........

First the JCB (not mine !) whilst clearing ditches and general landscape improvement in our new vines. He blew a hydraulic hose.

You can see the dead trees that were burnt during the fire nearly 2 years ago. They are gradually being cut down and removed. The hills are much clearer now and indeed the view of Canigou and the Pyrenees - the snow capped mountains in the background, would not have been visible 2 years ago, so it's not all bad !

I broke down this afternoon in the furgoncino en route to collecting Mathilda from school - broken points' spring. I was driving along at about 80 kph - ie nearly flat out - and I lost all power instantly. So my immediate thought was electricity.

Fortunately I had a spare in the back and it only took a few minutes to find the problem and change it. I didn't have feeler gauges so guessed and I will need to adjust it tomorrow plus,contact the Appia consortium for a couple of spares.

Surprising that it broke because it was new during the rebuild, but I have heard of this happening before 



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancialulu on 02 May, 2018, 09:16:13 PM
I see rust on the CB spring and this causes it to be more brittle than usual...... Having said that I have never heard of a CB spring breaking but another reason I like luminition....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancianut666 on 04 May, 2018, 03:18:49 PM
Hi
Simon is not the only person to have the spring break on the points...I have been (amongst other things) looking into an alternative supply as a Consortium member has had this trouble with points provided by Cavalittto.
Clarkey


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 23 May, 2018, 11:03:50 AM
I came to use the furgoncino today and guess what ? Another set of brand new points broke !

So new source needed indeed !



Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: stanley sweet on 23 May, 2018, 04:33:32 PM
That's really annoying. Is that quite a sharp curve where they break? Also is that rust on the new one too?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 23 May, 2018, 05:02:26 PM
Yes very annoying because I wanted to do a bit of a photo shoot.... apparently someone else has had 2 sets snap as well so I’m sure it is a batch-thing because the rust is more discoloration than rust!

There should be a couple of sets in the post as we speak and in the meantime I will refit some old ones


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 07 June, 2018, 06:12:39 AM
Further frustrations ...... out collecting supplies for the vineyard and on the way home another sudden and total loss of power

To cut a very long story short, after fitting the newly sourced points (thanks Jim) the rotor arm failed leaving me stranded by the side of the road. Quite bizarre especially since it shows no obvious damage and has been working until now. I don't believe in coincidence so trying to work out how these failures are connected !

picture of broken rotor






Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancianut666 on 07 June, 2018, 09:55:10 AM
I blame Gremlins


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancianut666 on 07 June, 2018, 09:56:20 AM
Where did the broken off bit go?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 07 June, 2018, 11:20:45 AM
There isn't a broken off bit .... as far as I can see !

I will however need a spare - can you drop one off with Mike next time you are in Hartlepool - or join us for a pint w/e 22nd June ?

Sorry to take over the forum for organising my social life


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: lancianut666 on 07 June, 2018, 11:40:55 AM
I like the sound of a pint on the 22nd
Clarkey


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 05 March, 2019, 07:03:37 PM
I took the furgoncino for a run last week including a trip into the vines along a very bumpy road ......

When I come home, I always do a quick check under/around the car and this time noticed that the bottom spring cover on the front suspension had come adrift and become blocked in the upper part.

I tried to release it but it was stuck solid. So with my new found "knowledge" of sliding pillars I decided that it would be easier to dismantle the spring unit

It is the same as Aurelia (indeed I believe it is B24 ??) and the same Appia 72mm spanner is used to undo the bottom guide.

Fortunately everything is unworn (58,000 kms from new) and it is interesting (to those anoraks amongst us) to note some subtle differences with normal Appia suspension. It is all a bit more "costaud" or solid and the spring has a lower bearing as well, although it is more of a slider than bearing. It has a RIV number, is chamfered to allow oil past and sits under the spring and moves on the guide

The upper bearing is thicker as is the spring. For interest the spring characteristics are as follows:

Unloaded length = 272-274 mm
Spring diametre = 74.3 mm
Wire diametre = 9.5 mm

There are no marks except red paint on the top, I presume to show which way up

Everything has been cleaned ready for soldering the sleeve back onto the lower guide and reassembly. If anyone wants other measurements please let me know before tomorrow !





Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 06 March, 2019, 09:01:10 AM

Lovely stuff.

Now you have the tools (and experience...) how long did that take?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: chriswgawne on 06 March, 2019, 09:19:44 AM
It sounds like you didn't have too much trouble undoing the bottom nut....and the threads look nice and clean and oily. It isn't always like that and certainly once we had to use a lot of heat and a very long scaffold pole due to light corrosion!
Or maybe you are just so used to doing this sort of job, you have found a quick and reliable routine?
Whichever it is I am envious.
Chris


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 06 March, 2019, 12:47:09 PM
I was lucky that it was not rusty and it came apart very easily, it probably took 10-15 minutes once it was on the ramp. I lowered the car down to about 18" off the floor and supported the bottom of the suspension with a jack - but it it still needed a 5' long bar


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 06 March, 2019, 12:51:08 PM

I'd expect a 5 ft long bar to pull a car off the ramp...shows what confidence experience brings...STRAIGHT to the "tool for the job" rather than messing about with "is it stuck?  will I break it?" 

Similar to having confidence to use a large enough hammer to hit something "big and once" to get it apart.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 06 March, 2019, 04:26:29 PM
Fortunately I've not had to use the hammer yet

Anyway, I re-soldered the sleeve (normal solder as per original) then painted, greased and now it's back together. A couple of things that I learnt:

Unlike standard Appias where the top sleeve doesn't slide out of the lower guide hole, I found it much easier to drop the top sleeve as well, assemble it as a single unit and then slide it up and into position

Interestingly, the top bearing was fitted below the carrier and not above as on std Appia and the early Aurelia drawings

The lower guide bearing is 44mm and it takes about 120ml oil to fill the lower guide

Refitting was done by gently lifting the unit into place with a jack until the threads just touch , then tighten by hand as far as poss, I got a couple of turns as far as the groove (photo) after that it was ongoing support from the jack and using the 72mm spanner. In order to reduce friction on the guide I used an old cambelt pulley bearing on top of the jack (last photo)

Now I can free up the ramp for the camioncino which is due anytime .......





Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - Aurelia Rosé 2018
Post by: simonandjuliet on 13 April, 2019, 03:52:46 PM
Not strictly Appia, more Aurelia, but next for delivery is our new Rosé ..... Domaine La Tasque "Aurelia Rosé 2018"

So I suppose the next one is "Aprilia Cab(rio) Shiraz" ?? - It's been a long day, sorry


Title: Village Fetes
Post by: simonandjuliet on 13 October, 2019, 07:11:28 PM
Not posted on here for a while, but to give an idea what goes on in small villages around the world ....

Our village has an annual festival for the pumpkin/squash - very bizarre

There is a squash recipe competition, a walk around the village and its environs (including looking at people's pumpkins) , a painting competition (that includes pumpkins), an animation for the village children (that involves squash and pumpkins) and then displays of local produce - including wines, jams, patés , jewelry and pumpkins

I was asked to show a couple of cars, so the Everyday Appia , HF Fulvia and the furgoncino came out of the garage - the furgoncino is our mobile wine display and tasting venue as well as delivery van

I bought some delicious fresh ceps/porcini mushrooms and a jar of rabbit rillettes - rillettes sounds so much better than rabbit meat cooked in duck fat!

Our Carignan was delicious with the porcini and Chris Gawne's Pinello was brilliant with the rabbit !

Anyway, the pumpkin quiche won the prize !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: chriswgawne on 18 October, 2019, 07:16:49 AM
You have made my mouth water Simon reading this .........for the rabbit rillettes as we have plenty of our Pinello! Thanks for the kind words.
Your village is so French and appealing.
Chris


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Jaydub on 20 October, 2019, 04:23:54 PM
Hi Simon, I`m with Chris. So envious of your lifestyle, quaint French villages, Cheeses, Wine, etc. I know it`s a lot of hard work as well but rewarding at the same time?


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 04 November, 2019, 10:54:14 AM
Back to reality .... I have had another leak on a front cylindre, same one as last time. It's been a pain because I have had this cyl redone by past parts, but it must be beyond limits, so I have fitted my only spare - fingers crossed

At least it gave me a chance to wash all the suspension because I whipped the drum off the other side whilst it was on the lift

The brakes on the furgoncino are the same as Aurelia , indeed the axle is apparently B24 ! This means that the seals are 28mm and very expensive, even so it looks like the cylinders will need to be sleeved or honed to a slightly larger diametre. Apparently there is no sleeving material available in 28 mm (please let me know if you know differently !) so I am contemplating another solution ......

If anyone has a good ,spare LH 28mm wheel cyl, I would be interested because I am now one short for the camioncino !

photo shows the method I use for refitting the spring - large woodworking clamp on the shoes and a long screwdriver on the spring. I usually fit a small screwdriver into the peg-hole and then reposition before fitting the peg


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Dikappa on 05 November, 2019, 03:17:43 PM
Simon,

Amadei has new ones 28mm if of interest.  I sort of stopped refurbishing as I feel the smallest imperfection in the bore will quickly ruin the cups.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 05 November, 2019, 04:50:23 PM
Thanks Koen, that's the problem. I can get the seals (Omicron have them for more than £25 each) but the bores are difficult as you say.

I even bought a new, remanufactured unit from another well known , reputable source, but that failed quite spectacularly (!), so I am looking at another route

If you have any old scored units, do keep them because we may yet have a solution !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: Dikappa on 05 November, 2019, 07:01:20 PM
Ok Simon,

It's true that not all remanufactured parts are of good quality....
Plenty of old stuff here!


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 17 February, 2020, 12:51:57 PM
Sort of Appia furgoncino/camioncino but Aurelia as well .....

Last year I bought a car roller for turning cars on their side, but non of the kits would fit my Appias so I had another hub mounting plate made. As the commercial Appias have the same wheel centres as Aurelias it works on these cars as well - as witnessed below

The only thing about using it on the Aurelia is that you need to remove the drive shaft and one mounting bolt which otherwise touches the plate

2 of us easily tipped the car on its side - another 2 making sure it didn't touch the wall !

The underside is now much easier to scrape and paint


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 18 February, 2020, 10:24:37 PM

This always ~looks~ so wrong, for all I know everything is strong enough and those loads are the same as cornering.  I think it was Frank Costin who said the engineers prayer is "to save me from the saying that what looks right is right".


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 18 July, 2020, 04:44:08 PM
Life has been very busy in the vineyards here, even during "confinement" , so it's nice to get out and sell some of our wares .....

A village nearby was having a night market and we were invited to join , so the "Appia" and "Aurelia" were on show as well as the furgoncino


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 24 July, 2020, 12:28:53 PM
Last week's picture was before it got going, this week's photo was at the end of the evening and we had a chance to sit down and have a (well deserved) drink with some friends

The Appia probably gets more attention than our stand !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: DavidLaver on 24 July, 2020, 01:36:11 PM

When I took your / my / Kennedy Aurelia to the Manx Classic one of the write ups had a phrase "a car that's known nothing but hard work its entire life", and its to you and your van's credit the same.  Lovely to see one out there in the wild.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 21 August, 2020, 02:08:10 PM
David, you may not see it for a while - yesterday was the last of the markets and harvest starts next week, so the furgoncino will need to move out of the winery for a while

First photo shows the calm before the storm and the second was a painting that a local did the week before ! He just came to the stand and showed it to me, telling me he just liked the shape and decided to paint it .....


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: nthomas1 on 21 August, 2020, 05:48:36 PM

What a delightful painting Simon! Really captures the character of the car.


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: fay66 on 21 August, 2020, 06:00:55 PM
I love this, Who else has their own stamp for their mail.
Lovely wines as well.
Great.
 ;D


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: tzf60 on 24 August, 2020, 01:51:08 PM
Might this piece of artwork find it's way on to a bottle label??
Very nice image, Simon!
 
Regards,
Tim


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 11 September, 2020, 11:47:17 AM
Tim - maybe !

We are in the middle of vendanges (harvest) so I have taken the furgoncino to Dog's so a colleague can properly sign-write the domaine name - I have finally had enough of the magnetic ones falling off !

All very old-school


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: eog on 11 September, 2020, 01:51:59 PM
I guess there always a Q for the wine !


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: sd39 on 13 September, 2020, 07:20:14 PM
that's looking fabulous


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: simonandjuliet on 15 September, 2020, 05:16:23 PM
Thanks for your comments and here's the queue ..... along with nice reflection of my new iPhone !

I am delighted with the result. Charlotte (sign-writer) was worried that you could see the brush strokes, but for me that IS the charm of having it painted by hand

Couple of other pics including an "arty" roof-tile silhouette


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: fay66 on 15 September, 2020, 05:44:39 PM
Brilliant  ;D
Brian
8227  8)


Title: Re: Appia furgoncino - A fettler's voyage
Post by: chriswgawne on 15 September, 2020, 07:16:12 PM
That looks fabulous Simon. And your Aurelia rose is not half had either. We need some more.
Chris