Lancia Motor Club

Buy, Sell and Search => Lancia vehicles for sale => Topic started by: Richard Fridd on 20 May, 2013, 11:45:30 AM



Title: Conrero
Post by: Richard Fridd on 20 May, 2013, 11:45:30 AM
From www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C389740#


Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: Sebastien on 20 May, 2013, 11:54:04 AM
Lancia Barchetta B20 Sport Spyder./Conrero, Engine 2500cc, The car was restored finally and is in mint condition. Chassis number B20- 3076 ,Motor number B20- 2726

Drove the old MilleMiglia
     ;D ;D ;D  . Ask for a proof! Which year, which driver?

B20-3076 is a 1954 RHD (!)  B20
An argentinian contraption, for sale for years, using pieces from a LHD B10S, and who knows what else!


Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: JohnMillham on 20 May, 2013, 04:16:30 PM
Whatever its history, I'd love it! Must get an extra lottery ticket or two this week!
 Regards, John


Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: Dikappa on 20 May, 2013, 05:13:56 PM
Looks a tad toooo new...  I would suspect it's a reconstruction....  Maybe I've got an engine and an axle lying around somwhere too....


Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: DavidLaver on 20 May, 2013, 06:34:13 PM

I'll love to see Chugga have a go at building something like this or an Aprilia barchetta.  He makes the "normal" stuff look too easy.

David


Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: Sebastien on 20 May, 2013, 07:17:25 PM
When I analyse why this "for sale" advertisement angers me so much I realise it is not the car itself:

That car is a nice evocation of the best period in sports car racing, the fifties. It uses a good Ferrari racing barchetta shape, and an Aurelia engine.

What really angers me is those shameless traders that invent histories to go with their wares, just to get hopefully a lot of money in the end.

One thing however might foil them: the registration offices.

Here in Switzerland, for old cars, for example an imported Lambda, the registration office requires a FIVA card before it even starts looking at the car. And believe me, the FIVA experts are reasonably competent, and know where they can get marque and car specialists to assist them.
Even an argentinian Pur Sang Bugatti replica is very difficult to register normally in CH. It is not an original Bugatti, nor does it comply with modern laws.

I have no idea what price is requested for this "Conrero" barchetta, I am sure it is "too much".

Maybe one of the reasons that poor nice evocation car has been for sale for years.



Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: chriswgawne on 21 May, 2013, 07:32:46 AM
Each time I have seen a Conrero Aurelia based car for sale (is it always the same actual car maybe? There was a silver one for sale for years a few years ago.), I have thought it is a good looking shape and I have then wondered how it would drive. I have then tried to find out when and where it was constructed without success even with the wonders of the Internet.
Were they built in the 50's, is it a modified Aurelia floorpan and did they compete in period? Is there such a thing as a genuine Conrero? And is this one therefore a 'copy' Conrero?

As an aside, the selling dealer, Tony Erker often has interesting cars for sale and seemed to have a good source of old Greek Lancia's in varying condition a few months ago. Currently he is advertising a 4th series B20 project which is missing its engine and transaxle. This car is actually a 2nd Series B20 and apparently is now sold.


Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: Sebastien on 21 May, 2013, 08:31:27 AM
Chris, here is what I know.

In april 2010 a firm called "Reklus" in Argentina was offering a Lancia Aurelia barchetta 1953 for sale.

To get some idea of their work go to:
http://www.rekluscars.com/english.html

The craftmanship on the aluminium body looks good!
However I do not know how they manufacture their chassis!

They have done quite a few fake Maserati 300S with 3500 or Sebring chassis.
Their "normal" product is an Alfa 1900 barchetta - using Alfa 1900 berlina floorpans.
They also have done a fake Lancia D50 for the Fangio museum.

Their cars always seem to start their european life in Belgium: easier importation procedure maybe.

The belgian dealer that advertises them from time to time:
http://www.mecanicimport.com



Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: peteracs on 21 May, 2013, 10:41:34 AM
Hi Sebastien

Looking at their website, they do offer 'replica' building, fake to me would tend to imply some sort of criminal intention which, from their point of view, I do not believe they intend. At least from what I see on the website which is admittedly rather limited.

Peter


Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: Sebastien on 21 May, 2013, 12:36:07 PM
Hello Peter,

OK, they do not build fakes, just their idea of the cars the customers want.
It is a commercial venture.
However, when they appear on a field in Europe looking just like a Maserati 300S, or a Cisitalia 202 do you think their owner points out the difference? Enough said....

Some more reading:
http://www.thebrander.com/article.php?o=91

And even a film:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ehu8ZC_syo


Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: chriswgawne on 21 May, 2013, 01:22:59 PM
Hello Sebastien,
Is this 'Conrero B20' based upon an 'original' Conrero car from the 50's and if so, how many did Conrero originally make I wonder? Everything I have ever read about them seems to suggest they tuned Aurelias in period and most of their activity was with Alfas.
Chris


Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 21 May, 2013, 03:27:00 PM
This car was offered for sale at Coys Essen sale in 2002, it was painted silver then, and did not sell.
http://www.motorbase.com/auctionlot/by-id/1341123046


Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: Sebastien on 21 May, 2013, 04:45:33 PM
Hello Chris,

I have never heard of a Conrero special with Aurelia engine.

I think the tuning potential of the Alfa 4 cylinders made them much easier engines to develop than Aurelias.
Also I remember that in Italy the Sports categories had a 2 litre limit.

I also checked the book: La "Sport" e i suoi artigiani, which covers the period 1937 - 1965: 4 pages cover Conrero - no mention of a Conrero with Aurelia engine.
The well known Conrero 2000 with Supersonic body by Savonuzzi however used an Aurelia transaxle and rear suspension.

Regarding the so called Conrero barchettas, the following exchange is a good read:
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/alfa-romeo-cars-sale-wanted/195801-1957-1900-conrero-barchetta-e-bay.html



Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: chriswgawne on 21 May, 2013, 04:49:49 PM
Well Ade,
Theres a surprise - the Essen car is the same car B20 3076 as the one for sale now!


Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: chriswgawne on 21 May, 2013, 04:52:17 PM
Just seen your latest post sebastien.
So I wonder why this car is described as a Conrero and when it was constructed?


Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: Sebastien on 21 May, 2013, 05:31:22 PM
Chris,

My explanation, and maybe I am too direct:

Someone had this special made at Reklus (or another similar shop - there are some in Italy), with cheap parts, using a B10S platform. Then it came to Europe (remember Mecanicimport) 15 years ago. Someone, not the manufacturer, but the then owner, invented the Conrero barchetta monicker.
Maybe he could not register it, or he just wanted to make a quick profit. And now (and for the last 10 years) that poor car does the rounds, now "finally restored", which means a new coat of paint.

But maybe someone has a better explanation!


Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: DavidLaver on 21 May, 2013, 06:06:18 PM

I get that its not good to attach such a story to it - a degree worse than dangling MM or Goodwood eligible.

As a piece of work I like it. I'm sure a good proportion of those who've been to visit Ron Francis look at his room full of "little Aurelia" engines that nobody wants (or used to...) and the rack of gearboxes with the weak clutch and short CWP that nobody wants (or used to...) and all the early brakes where everyone wants the upgrade to the later ones (or used to...) and you think "how hard would it be".  With all the Aurelia "parts cars" now being restored and interest in the Berlinas its now the Aprilia bits I look at in that light.

I ~love~ that book La Sport.  A real favourite.

http://www.velocetoday.com/lifestyle/lifestyle_12.php

Its one of those books where a quick dip in results in a heap of unanswered questions which in the internet age has become a good thing not a fault.

David


Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 21 May, 2013, 06:08:36 PM
Sebastien, I'm with you regarding this cars history....... or lack of it!


Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: DavidLaver on 21 May, 2013, 06:09:58 PM
From the Aurelia technical info page I went to:

http://aureliatips.lanciainfo.com/Aurelia_Tips/Technical_Tips.html

...and read:

"Parts for Aurelias are reasonably available for some things, and hard for others. Typically, small trim bits are very hard to find, while running parts (mechanical) are generally all available".

With kit cars being stripped of parts to restore Escorts you've got to go somewhere else for bits :)

David


Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: simonandjuliet on 21 May, 2013, 07:03:27 PM
David

Please keep quiet re. Aprilia bits, I want to be able to enjoy the Aprilia without it becoming too valuable or expensive to use !

I jest, but you and I were some of the last to use an Aurelia as an "everyday" car without worrying about the potential loss/cost if we pranged or broke it - I genuinely hope Aprilias do not get too expensive .....

Sorry - off topic !



Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: chriswgawne on 21 May, 2013, 07:59:27 PM
Thanks Sebastien,
Your directness is refreshing.
It seems to be a classic case of a car almost inventing its own history and then because nobody challenges this history (because we are all too polite) it  then becomes accepted by all and sundry. What is also amazing about this Conrero car is the asking price today of 350,000.
In the recent past I have seen what I believe to be  a 'fake' B24S Spider (not sure where it was constructed but the scuttle really didnt look right)  which was probably based upon a cut B10 chassis/floorpan. Maybe this came from Argentina as well?
Chris


Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: ColinMarr on 21 May, 2013, 08:37:08 PM
Sebastien is correct in pointing out that this supposedly B20 based car (as in the original post) goes back a long way. I remember going to an LMC Sunday pub lunch meeting near Elstree aerodrome almost 20 years ago when one of the Aurelia owners furtively produced a few pages of fax with the details of what I am sure was the same car. This was then being offered exclusively (pre Internet) to those who might be tempted. It seemed to me then to be too good to be true, and I guess it still is twenty years later.

Colin


Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: ncundy on 21 May, 2013, 08:58:27 PM
I did wonder at the start of this thread if Belgium would figure!

The Alfa thread is good, only took 7 of posts for a familiar connection to be made. It seems a lot of cars with interesting history have spent a period of time in Belgium, often coincidently during a gap in the history; rediscovered Alfa TZ's, ISO & Bizzarrinis, long missing Alfa GTAs. A common connection made by those in the know is the certain person alluded to in the Alfa BB thread.

Couldn't agree more with Sebastian's synopsis.



Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: DavidLaver on 21 May, 2013, 09:09:19 PM

Someone one day will write an excellent book about him.

I think the FIA were smart to permit "fake" cars to race as long as the spec is 100pct correct.  You can't have the front two rows of the grid all with the same chassis number.  "12 survive of the 3 originally made".  Goodwood and the MM are the last carrots that get dangled next to the big money cars with the thin histories.

What's more interesting is that with the price of posh Fulvias on the rise its a game coming closer to home. Come to that there may be another Flavia Zagato "discovered" in Lewisham made of a few bits left over and the bits I made but didn't quite fit :)  Print this post off and put it somewhere safe to shame me with when it comes to it.

David


Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: Sebastien on 21 May, 2013, 09:21:09 PM
When I wrote earlier about the nicely shaped, Ferrari like body, I was in fact thinking about this car, for sale on PostwarClassic, a subsite of Prewarcar. It reminds me of a Ferrari Mondial, with that eggcrate grille while the diamond stitching of the interior, applied literally everywhere, is just too much!
http://www.prewarcar.com/index.php?option=com_caradvert&view=ad&section_id=4&id=71164&Itemid=434
On the photos that car has Florida plates.
The same austrian dealer also has for sale an Aurelia B12, which has been discussed elsewhere on this forum a few months ago.

Look also on the PostwarClassic website for 2 Maserati replicas, a 300S and a 450S, for sale in Uruguay. At least those are clearly labelled REPLICA! And they still look good!




Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: Sebastien on 21 May, 2013, 09:39:42 PM
And just for comparison, the car that started this thread.


Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: Kevin MacBride on 24 May, 2013, 01:21:32 AM
Interesting thread this...I've noticed this car over the years (in silver as well). Without doing any research, I simply assumed it was a 'special' produced back in the 50's. Here in Ireland there are dozens of oddball 'specials', homemade cars that were built from bits and bobs pre and post war and were raced and hillclimbed till they finally had enough. From time to time the children or indeed grandchildren of the original owners turn up having put them back on the road (or track). Quite a few were Riley 12/4 based, or with MG XPag engines. There was even a Bugatti chassis (with a flathead Ford V8....I kid you not).
These cars were never passed off as anything but 'specials' and over time have acquired their own history.
It a bit of a shame really, to produce a car (as nice as this one seems to be), and 'retro-invent' a provenance. What is the harm is just saying its a 'special', and price it accordingly. I'm certain there would be plenty of buyers if it were reasonably priced.
I'd love something like that, simply for looks alone, and also for the Aurelia connection. Rather than having a complete wreck of a shell lying around, would it not be far better to utilize the mechanicals.
A local racecar company near where I live builds Formula V chassis' and complete cars. A bare chassis only costs a few thousand Euro.
I wonder how one would perform with an old Flavia engine and 'box I have lying about........??


Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: DavidLaver on 24 May, 2013, 11:51:26 AM

Kevin - do it !!!

The replica I'm wanting someone to do really properly is the D20 with the roof.  I'd buy the book and the film and the tee shirt of that one if it ever got done.  Seeing the Zagato Aprilia gave me hope it might and each time I see a mention of the D24 or D50s I think "maybe someday someone will..."

David


Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: Sebastien on 24 May, 2013, 08:36:04 PM
Surprise, surprise!

Here the inspiration for one of the barchettas above, a Ferrari Mondial.
(Photo courtesy RM Auctions, Monterey sale 2013)

It is a nice design!


Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 22 July, 2013, 07:04:19 PM
Now for sale on ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LANCIA-AURELIA-B20-Conrero-Barchetta-/121147734699?ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1120#ht_95wt_954


Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: DavidLaver on 23 July, 2013, 10:00:02 AM

The irony would be it being bought for bits to restore a stripped to the shell "parts car" B20. 

For all the tall stories its too nice a car to get shunted dealer to dealer.  Fingers crossed it finds a broad minded owner and gets some use.

David


Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: Kevin MacBride on 26 July, 2013, 11:24:19 PM
Any ideas as to what the little unit to the rear of the carburettor is for ? (In the ebay photos). And the distributor car, looks very 'Fiatish'


Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: fay66 on 27 July, 2013, 01:14:13 AM
Any ideas as to what the little unit to the rear of the carburettor is for ? (In the ebay photos). And the distributor car, looks very 'Fiatish'

Looks like a fuel cut off valve.

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: Jay on 18 October, 2013, 10:49:58 AM
A Lancia Aurelia Barchetta rep sold for 130,800
 http://www.classicandsportscar.com/news/classic-car-auctions/bugattis-dominate-sale-of-the-ritter-museum-collection
 It looks very similar to the one that Sebastien mentions on the previous page.


Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: Kevin MacBride on 19 October, 2013, 11:15:50 AM
A Lancia Aurelia Barchetta rep sold for 130,800
 http://www.classicandsportscar.com/news/classic-car-auctions/bugattis-dominate-sale-of-the-ritter-museum-collection
 It looks very similar to the one that Sebastien mentions on the previous page.

What I find surprising is that they still maintain the Fangio/Aurelia/Carrera connection. I would have thought publication like this would at least have the correct info/description of the car. Or am I being a bit touchy on the subject. After all, they did an article on a B24 some time back, you'd imagine they would spot the differences !!


Title: Re: Conrero
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 19 October, 2013, 05:43:19 PM
Also see http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6572.0
This is not a Lancia it is a Fiat chassis with various other bits from Italian cars and an Aurelia engine.
It is a fantasy car!