Lancia Motor Club

Here are some photographs of what I thought was the ex-Basil Spence Flavia Vignale. These were taken at Scheldt and Pettit’s at Harrow in 1987. The box-in-the-boot modification is very evident. The engine bay shows twin downdraft Solexs and I think it was an early 1500cc car. The red Vignale in the background had registration number 900GBL.

Other posts here have commented on the original red vinyl trim on these cars. I can assure you that it may look like leather, but it’s very hard and durable plastic! And I suppose that if you treated it like leather, it may even smell of leather, but it was vinyl.

Colin

Hi Colin, did Sir Basil Spence have more than one Lancia, as the red Vignale at Godin Banks has mention of him in the ad. Richard

At http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C423184

I hate to say it and I hope I don't upset anyones feelings, but what a right abortion Hoopers made of it, call it what you like it's still a whacking great box that doesn't blend in, and I'm surprised Hoopers put there name to it, or were unable to design something more attractive that fitted in with the lovely Vignale design of the original, although I think it looked much better with the dark paintwork shown in Colin's original photo than the current silver, that only seems to emphasise how big the box is.
From an historical point of view I suppose it's worth keeping, but I certainly wouldn't shell out £30,000 anytime soon for the dubious advantage of having something that can carry a bit more than the standard boot. ::)
Does anyone know the reason why this modification was added in the first place?

Brian
8227 8)

He being an architect, wasn't the modification made to accommodate his drawings?

Robin.

Robin, that is what I had heard and it is quite feasible.

To have a space where drawings could be carried flat and indeed consulted/worked on is a great advantage when visiting a site where office accommodation is not available. I had a Renault Espace that did the job admirably but definitely did not have the panache of a Vignale.

                              Andy

But what I don't understand, is that as an architect (and so many architects loved Lancias for their design, build and function) surely that hideous carbuncle (to quote heir to throne) ruins as Brian said the pure aesthetic of the Vignale design surely giving him indigestion every time he went to drive it or walking up to it when parked at clients premises. Additionally some of the hood parking space has been used making the hood no not stow flat is in the original design - which is of little consequence when you look at the modified profile.... ???

It seems to me that most likely the brief to Hoopers was to create something akin to the luggage trunks found on vintage vehicles and as such is not IMHO a complete disaster. But then I'm conditioned to vintage vehicles which often fall short in the design aesthetics found in later vehicles.

On the other hand I'm not a great lover of the Flavia Vignale, much preferring the coupe.
Ducks head quickly under the parapet!  :o

Robin.

Coupe and Vignale are both great designs - each serving their intended purpose well. Heads up!!!

I must say that if the 'designed to accommodate drawings' brief to Hoopers is correct then one would have thought the instruction came from an engineer rather than an architect.

Certainly I agree with Tim that the end result is something that detracts from the vehicle rather than adds to it !!!!!  It appears to be an engineer's function over form, rather than the opposite which would more readily be associated with those in the architectural profession.

I also have to agree with Tim that both the coupe and the Vignale serve their intended purpose perfectly. one of each is not unreasonable !!!!

                                         Andy

A Fulvia 1600HF owning Architect friend Ed Levin in America and who posts on the American site lancisti.net as 1600HF made his own comments that I hope no one minds if I post it here.

"On behalf of architects everywhere, I’d like to apologize for the Basil Spence Flavia. That absurd boot probably wasn’t made to hold drawings; even in the case of presentation drawings mounted on board, it would be quite unusual to ever have that tall a stack of them. More likely it was either to serve as a temporary job site table, or it was sized to carry models. Whichever, I regard none of those as an adequate excuse for the aesthetic offense.!
Ed

Brian
8227 8)

I thought we had settled the dispute about this car in other posts ages ago. As I understand it, Hoopers did more than one conversion to a Flavia Vignale like this. The one now advertised is the same car that I photographed in 1987, 556 FLP. Since then it was re-registered in Jersey with the number it now has and has obviously been extensively restored.

At one time I had thought this was the ex-Basil Spence car – this was after hearing that Sir Bas did in fact have such a car. I thought it was unlikely that more than one person should want to muck up at great expense one of these lovely cars in this way. I was wrong, there is (or was) an identical Hooper modified car that was the original Basil Spence one. It had a registration number “BS …. “, as would fit the shy and retiring nature of a humble architect. I have no idea as to whether or not Sir Bas was the originator of this, or whether he was picking up on an existing idea.

Colin   

Jersey reg one on Silverstone Auctions guide 20-25k. Dont like the drooping exaust or bulging hood cover....

From a television programme this evening

The Flavia is up for auction in September https://www.e-architect.co.uk/architects/basil-spence which has a link to www.silverstoneauctions.com/1963-lancia-flavia-vignale-convertible

To add to the debate I have found a few more pictures on dear old Google. The modification doesn't seem too obtrusive in anything but a rear view. It looks better on the silver car because the dark extension is visually detached from the lines of the original body. Finally the modification doesn't seem to preclude a return to a standard boot lid.

Resurecting this old thread, the Spence Vignale has surfaced again at Hexagon

https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1072040

Basil Spence did like cars - I met him when parking my first car (1926 Bullnose Morris Oxford) outside the students' union at Leeds University where he had been giving a lecture. He stopped and we had quite a chat about the car. This must have been about 1956.
Mike

https://www.silverstoneauctions.com/events/2017-auctions/the-salon-prive-sale-2017/the-salon-prive-sale-2017-sale/cars/1963-lancia-flavia-vignale-convertible

This comment popped out:

"It was during the mid-eighties that the car became the subject of an 18-month court battle after a bill for the car's restoration, estimated at £5,000, was invoiced to the (understandably) upset then owner at £37,000!"

My reason for looking this thread up again is that William started yesterday at Southampton.  We've yet to fathom why his Faraday Tower is closed but a lot of his other buildings are still going strong.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-35271916
http://urbantrawl.blogspot.com/2011/03/dont-play-step-game.html



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basil_Spence

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiparXjr-UI&list=PL0J-eeCWEKS_cpNPAbA_4A14oPGKWlSYO&index=37&t=0s

I note the court found in favour of the restorers! So even 30 years later, it's still not made its money back.

Again in the  article it states it cost eight times (surely an error) the price of a Citroen DS convertible in 1963, which perversely is worth five times more than the Flavia is now.

P

Who was the restorer Frank?
Chris

No idea, but hope they don't finish off the B12!

Don't they keep court records, judgements, easy to search for Flavia.

P

From some of the earlier posts about this car I think we agreed that it was the other Hooper modified Flavia that I photographed at Scheldt and Pettit’s in 1987, so I doubt it was them who did this expensive restoration.

Nothing to do with Lancia, but I can add a story that might be of interest. In recent years I met someone who worked for Spence when they were at Canonbury Square in the 1960s. I asked him if he knew anything about Sir Basil and his cars – sadly he didn’t, but he did relate the following story. Apparently, Sir Basil and Lady Spence lived in an apartment above the studio space. On one occasion, while the staff were engrossed at a meeting trying to address some crisis at the Sussex University project, Lady Spence appeared carrying an electric toaster and loudly explained to Basil that it was still not working and he would have to return it to Harrods. Sir Basil duly obliged – the meeting was cancelled and off he went!