Lancia Motor Club

Model Technical and Interest => Aurelia => Topic started by: Richard Fridd on 03 July, 2012, 02:13:24 PM



Title: mid 70s photo
Post by: Richard Fridd on 03 July, 2012, 02:13:24 PM
Michael Clarke has sent this picture of his 4th series B20 taken in the mid 70s.story to follow.photo copyright Michael Clarke


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: Richard Fridd on 04 July, 2012, 05:21:01 PM
This car came from the south of france in 1970 when Michaels father bought it one thursday night(exchange and mart ad)for 40 from a woman that had owned it in Ladbrooke Grove.it had Nardi change,tinted glass beige cloth and seperate front seats.He drove it home with Michael following in a B21 2litre with probable Mille Miglia history -later cut up for scrap says Michael.the B20 was originally EMH 276J then 8HP.richard


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: Parisien on 04 July, 2012, 06:01:31 PM
40, seriously...price of a round drinks?!

:)

P


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: Richard Fridd on 04 July, 2012, 06:38:10 PM
The price of a round of drinks if there are not too many people present!


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: Richard Fridd on 05 July, 2012, 01:16:43 PM
As can be seen here the old GT is tidied up and now has the 2 litre Mille miglia(?) Engine(has anyone else done this conversion? asks Michael)but included the original 2.5 engine and 2 litre transaxle in a sale to Japan.Michael copied the racing colour layout rather than the works(?) Scheme which brought the dark colour above the number plate to make the car more attractive.Sold to Benzo Utzui in Japan through Dennis Nursey(of 'Old Number One Bentley' court case fame) photos copyright Michael Clarke


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: Richard Fridd on 05 July, 2012, 04:30:27 PM
Regarding the B21, Michael writes-attached pic shows the 1000 miglia badge which is all I have left of that B21(bought from Pat Driscoll).In the early 1960's we called in at HALFWAY GARAGES on the A4 and that actual B21 was on their forecout,For Sale of course.When dad bought it,it pulled horrendously to one side and when I broke it up,the front axle was really bent.Also the brakes used to bind after a few miles,and it drank juice like nobody's business,but went like the clappers.It had a Nardi floor change.When the Mille Miglia retro started in Italy I sold some of the bits to a well heeled German guy that pulled up with his chauffeur/man friday and paid a lot of spot cash.when I had my 'Silver machine' JMP 185K I remember an absolutely immaculate B21 on Diplomatic Plates over West London.It was so fab I stopped to have a good look,hopeing someone connected might appear,but no luck.The colour was Jet Black.Also,about 1970 at Meeting House Lane,SE15-it was a bombsite near the nick on the main road,a B21 with a B12 engine- I wonder what happened to that? Photo copyright Michael Clarke


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: Richard Fridd on 06 July, 2012, 09:17:31 AM
Michael adds-My 4th series chassis number was/is 3363.My beautiful original 2nd series was UK registered 40BLH.I sold it to Peter Jackson(I think he was connected to the WSM-Douglas Wilson-Spratt company converting and racing Healey Sprites,etc.in the 1960's)At the time,c.1972,he told me he had a garage in Huntingdon.Do the clubs records know of the car?


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: Richard Fridd on 08 July, 2012, 07:48:56 AM
Photo copyright Michael Clarke


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: HF_Dave on 12 July, 2012, 06:52:46 PM
Will anybody be feeling the same about a few Thema's and beta's parked up in a back garden in an old photo  taken  in the 90's  when they look at the photo in the 2020's ?  ::) I wonder ? . I passed a comment to Kevin Mc Bride a couple of years ago when we were moving a B20 from a garage in Rathmines in Dublin where the origional B20 block was thrown out in the undergrowth , kevin said "imagine throwing out a block off a B20" where I replied  " look in your own garden and you'l find a Thema 16V block in the undergrowth" Same as, same as. ???


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: davidwheeler on 29 July, 2012, 12:54:46 PM
Yes, but a Thema is an undistinguished modern car, a badge engineered FIAT, with no distinguishing characteristics (though they do go quite well).  An Aurelia is like nothing else (apart from another proper Lancia).  Lancia used to be distinguished by unusual and innovative engineering.  Now they stick "Lancia" badges on American heaps.


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: Parisien on 29 July, 2012, 02:29:11 PM
Yes, but a Thema is an undistinguished modern car, a badge engineered FIAT, with no distinguishing characteristics (though they do go quite well).  An Aurelia is like nothing else (apart from another proper Lancia).  Lancia used to be distinguished by unusual and innovative engineering.  Now they stick "Lancia" badges on American heaps.

Agree.....the uniqueness and individualism of marques is being forever squeezed out of existence, no one will be looking for a generic engines from a generic platform shared by two/three makers of the blandest appearance and design in 30 yrs time.


P


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: Kevin MacBride on 29 July, 2012, 08:33:24 PM
I know this is way off topic,and should probably have its own thread....but..(there's always a but)
No one would have guessed that way back when, certain cars would attain huge value in years to come. I've an old 'Mororsport' magazine from the late 50's. Its got a great ad in it where a punter wants to SWAP his 30's Bentley for a Ford Pop.....
My day job is supplying parts for Fiats and Alfas (modern). I supply genuine, aftermarket and used parts. Take a twin spark engine (used) from a modern Alfa. I can get more money if its for a 147 than a 156, and I can buy 156's for next to nothing, where 147's still have a decent value.I imagine the same would hold true for modern Lancias, as in a Thema engine is not worth that much for a Thema, but you could expect more for it, to an integrale customer. I know its not exactly the same engine, but is still worth more for the Delta application.
Exactly the same thing happened the Aurelia, Sedans were not as popular as Coupes, and which one attained the higher value later on.
I'm kind of beginning to appreciate the value of certain modern spare parts, V6 Alfa engines, chain driven Alfa Nord engines etc. That Thema block David mentioned was well past its sell by date (leg out of bed).


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: davidwheeler on 30 July, 2012, 08:01:59 AM
Of course a 30s Bentley was not a real Bentley just a cheap Rolls.


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: Angle Grinder on 30 July, 2012, 12:03:27 PM
Yes, but a Thema is an undistinguished modern car, a badge engineered FIAT, with no distinguishing characteristics (though they do go quite well).  An Aurelia is like nothing else (apart from another proper Lancia).  Lancia used to be distinguished by unusual and innovative engineering.  Now they stick "Lancia" badges on American heaps.

I know what you are saying, but the funny thing is that my LHD V6 Thema generates far more interest than my Flavia does. People seem to look at the Flavia and go "Oooh and old car, nice", but they never come up to ask me anything about it. Where as the Thema is always attracting comments about "What's that mister?" or "She's in great condition how old is she?". I guess they look at the Flavia and they know its a cherished and pampered old car, where as the Thema is my everyday transport and people seem to be genuinely amazed that a 22 yr old Lancia looks so good and has less rust than their Mazda / Merc / Honda / Rover / Vauxhall etc....

The 8.32 legacy also helps...


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: Richard Fridd on 26 August, 2012, 02:03:16 PM
Another photo of Michael's Aurelia,albeit in the background, from The Michael Clarke Collection.


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: Richard Fridd on 06 October, 2012, 10:00:19 AM
Via Michael Clarke on B20GT 40 BLH. In due course 40BLH was stripped to bare metal and resprayed metallic blue.Later on set up for Classic Saloon racing with a 2.5 litre from a 4th series Aurelia with a Nardi set-up.It was considerably lightened and lowered with Porsche ventilated discs fitted at the front.Success followed in 1977 with wins at Brands,Aintree and Lydden.Following being sold to Norway it reappeared at the Bromley Pagent.At a Monaco auction a couple of years ago it sold for 100,000 Euros. Michael would like to follow this up and would be interested if anyone has further details.Also I would be interested to see any pics of the racing activity.best regards richard


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: Sebastien on 06 October, 2012, 10:16:07 AM
I found following entry for a Monaco sale, approximately 2 years ago:
RM Monaco, on 1.05.2010
B20-1824, 2nd series, with 2.5 l engine and Nardi kit
Sold for EUR 102.917
See:
http://viva-lancia.com/auction/index.php

The description of the car with photos is still on the RM website, see:
http://www.rmauctions.com/CarDetails.cfm?SaleCode=MC10&CarID=r205&Currency=EUR

Description however does not exactly fit the story as told by Michael Clarke.

I believe we already spoke about that car when it appeared at auction in Monaco in an earlier forum posting.
Look at the entry, in 2010:
Aurelia B20 for sale.......bargain 125,000!!!!!!!

Could this be Michael Clarke's B20GT  40 BLH???


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: Richard Fridd on 09 October, 2012, 06:25:30 AM
Seems it is then.Those RM pictures are great thanks Sebastion.


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: Richard Fridd on 21 October, 2012, 10:01:20 AM
RARE CLASSIC, Mille Miglia type 2 litre Lancia GT. All original but needs work,cheap at 100 01-852 8904. The  40 BLH Ad from Febuary 1972 Motorsport ! (From Michael Clarke)


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: Zetaman on 31 October, 2012, 06:19:05 PM
I'm glad I found this thread as it solves one of the mysteries in my Aurelia Register! EMH 276J was a record in a list given to me by the late Barry Crowe, whose B20 is now of course with Kevin McBride.  Now I have a lot more.  B20-3363 was not otherwise known to me.  Thank you!

Paul Mayo


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: chriswgawne on 31 October, 2012, 07:09:26 PM
What a terrible thing to do to fit Porsche ventilated discs to a B20. And I wonder how they were attached?
At the Goodwood Revival a few years ago there was an Aurelia Sedan entered in the St Mary's Trophy which had front disc brakes (Citroen I think) WELDED to the front suspension!! The car didnt start  the race as the driver gunned the clutch on the start and burnt the clutch out losing all drive.
Memo to driver - get 1st gear fully engaged and your foot off the clutch pedal before flooring the throttle. And then get into 2nd ASAP to avoid overloading 1st gear.
Having said that, a few years ago at the Bologna-Sanluca hillclimb (which has a slight uphill start) I witnessed a B20 spinning its rear wheels off the standing start. I asked the driver later about his clutch and he had a special driven plate fitted by Gamberini. I have since seen one of these at Gamberini and it was quite interesting.


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: DavidLaver on 01 November, 2012, 08:53:49 AM

Having gone to uprated springs and a paddle clutch and still having problems I'm interested as to what this special plate was.  Of course I soon learnt that a standard clutch and the procedure as above was the way to go, until just now I thought it was the ONLY way to go.

David


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: Parisien on 01 November, 2012, 09:45:08 AM
RARE CLASSIC, Mille Miglia type 2 litre Lancia GT. All original but needs work,cheap at 100 01-852 8904. The  40 BLH Ad from Febuary 1972 Motorsport ! (From Michael Clarke)

100............................why was I not told about this sooner.....;)


P


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: Sebastien on 01 November, 2012, 04:55:34 PM
Another set of disc brakes on an Aurelia, also a 2nd series B20, also fitted with a 2.5 l engine. At least they are not ventilated Porsche ones!

The transformation was done in the early 60ies in Switzerland, and the car is still going well! It also passes the swiss technical inspection, which is rather thorough!

Next time I se the car on a lift, I shall try to document the mounting of the caliper.


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: fay66 on 01 November, 2012, 05:06:37 PM
Another set of disc brakes on an Aurelia, also a 2nd series B20, also fitted with a 2.5 l engine. At least they are not ventilated Porsche ones!

The transformation was done in the early 60ies in Switzerland, and the car is still going well! It also passes the swiss technical inspection, which is rather thorough!

Next time I se the car on a lift, I shall try to document the mounting of the caliper.

Dunlop /Girling, I wonder what off of, perhaps Flaminia?

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: Niels Jonassen on 06 November, 2012, 09:58:26 PM
On the early gearboxes and clutches the factory fitted a clutch plate with a sintered lining to the cars used in racing. I have seen one of these once. It is fitted with fairly small pieces af yellow sintered metal. According to a Swedish friend of mine who has this fitted it works admirably.


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: chriswgawne on 07 November, 2012, 08:39:51 AM
Any chance of a photo Niels?
Chris


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: Niels Jonassen on 07 November, 2012, 09:58:57 PM
The friend of mine who showed me the clutch plate is Herbert Nilsson, chairman of the Swedish Lancia club. He might be able to help you. His e-mail address is: herbert.nilsson@bredband.net


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: Richard Fridd on 04 December, 2012, 06:27:14 PM
Michael Clarke has found another 8HP photo for us


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: lancialulu on 04 December, 2012, 07:44:45 PM
engine out?


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: Kevin MacBride on 04 December, 2012, 10:15:40 PM
Any chance of a photo Niels?
Chris

Chris,  I have a sintered clutch disc I bought from Cavalitto. Works really well, you can feel the drive is 'locked' when engaged, rather than that horrible 'porridge' feeling as the plates spin.


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: Kevin MacBride on 04 December, 2012, 10:33:27 PM
Another set of disc brakes on an Aurelia, also a 2nd series B20, also fitted with a 2.5 l engine. At least they are not ventilated Porsche ones!

The transformation was done in the early 60ies in Switzerland, and the car is still going well! It also passes the swiss technical inspection, which is rather thorough!

Next time I se the car on a lift, I shall try to document the mounting of the caliper.

This is the brake disc on my car, looks like a Flaminia hub, Girling caliper, Carbonne Lorainne pads  (works really well, dont tell Vincenzo )


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: DavidLaver on 05 December, 2012, 11:05:17 AM

4th December - "clutch works really well"

5th December - photos of shattered pot joint...

http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5620.0

Its reminding me of being pleased with a hotter cam, then wanting the close ratio gears.  As you ponder where to stop often as not you wish you hadn't started.

David


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: Richard Fridd on 05 December, 2012, 01:15:19 PM
Another set of disc brakes on an Aurelia, also a 2nd series B20, also fitted with a 2.5 l engine. At least they are not ventilated Porsche ones!

The transformation was done in the early 60ies in Switzerland, and the car is still going well! It also passes the swiss technical inspection, which is rather thorough!

Next time I se the car on a lift, I shall try to document the mounting of the caliper.

This is the brake disc on my car, looks like a Flaminia hub, Girling caliper, Carbonne Lorainne pads  (works really well, dont tell Vincenzo )
   Thanks for the photo Kevin,is there any chance of pic of the caliper mounting bolts and details of which Girling calipers you have on your car. richard


Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: Kevin MacBride on 06 December, 2012, 01:01:11 AM

4th December - "clutch works really well"

5th December - photos of shattered pot joint...

http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5620.0

Its reminding me of being pleased with a hotter cam, then wanting the close ratio gears.  As you ponder where to stop often as not you wish you hadn't started.

David

Yep,  but that was the last straw.  That was an old photo of the original clutch, which has since been replaced by the sintered one, which has done a  2 complete season with no issues. The pot joint would have failed anyway, since the boot had burst, and shed its oil. I'm considering replacing the pot joints with 'hardy spicer' type. There was an article in Viva Lancia a while back, where the plate which is bolted to the hubs was re-made to accept a hardy spicer joint, and a modified shaft from a Sierra Cosworth was fitted to the original outer shaft, using sliding splines.



Title: Re: mid 70s photo
Post by: Richard Fridd on 01 January, 2013, 10:27:50 AM
Via  Michael Clarke a photo from the forthcoming issue of Classic and Sportscar. Richard