Lancia Motor Club

I'm still in the process of dismantling the rear suspension on my coupe (removal of old underseal and copious soaking in WD40). I'm hoping for a bit of advice re the dismantling of the hub. I have a 'homemade' hub tool that came with the car. Essentially nothing more than a thick cylinder with three lugs that slips into the hub and locates on the washer with three holes. You then place a long bar in a hole and turn (though I think I may need a very long bar and hope that the car doesn't try and do a turtle and flip on its back). I presuming its easier to undo all this whilst the suspension is still on the car.
Questions are - there seems to be a circlip. Is it a circlip that needs to come out first or is it part of the nut?
Secondly, the outer ring also has allowance for a tool with lugs to be used (but more of them). Do I need to take this off as well and if so does one tool fit both?
Hope that makes sense
Rodders

It all depends what you want to do?   The "thick cylinder with three lugs" will remove the ring lock-nut from the end of the stub axle, which will allow you to draw off the hub (with bearing enclosed) and brake disc (after the caliper has been removed) from the stub axle, thereby exposing the handbrake mechanism and shoes, etc.  You may need to have back-off the handbrake shoe adjustment slightly if the brake hub has lipped at its outer edge, before it will draw off the axle.   The rear disc can be removed from the inner side of the hub at this stage.

Another larger diameter tool with lugs, is needed to remove the lockring from the hub casing, which exposes the bearing pressed into the housing, which will allow you to remove and replace the wheel bearing.

In both cases, the lockrings are likely to be tight or very tight, and will need the weight of the car and long leverage to assist.

Without going to the garage, whipping off a wheel and looking, from memory the circlip will be locking the bearing lockring in place;  and the stub axle lockring will have a smooth lip which will be pinched into a groove in the stub axle.

Hope of some help?   Regards - Roddy

Roddy is right on both circlip and lock ring.

The outer bearing retaining "nut" with the circlip is also as Roddy says best removed while on the car. If you brakes still work then leave them working as an additional person can add some holding power to the disk come handbrake (you will need to lock the hub also somehow) to undo this nut. at least 200 ftlb... I used a 4 ft lever and all my weight... and it went BANG and moved an eighth of an inch... scaffold poles are good.

Another tip is to keep the tool held onto the hub as if it "spins" of you may only have the option of drilling the nut out...

Tim

Thanks gents.
The idea is to get at the brake disc so may well the outer lockring alone. I've sourced a scaffolding pole just in case I need it for the inner one. I'll have a go over the weekend, wish me luck
Rodders

its the outer one that will need the pole believe me.

You only need to take the inner bearing nut off to get to the handbrake etc. Still you will then need to "pull" the hub come brake disk off, and as Roddy said - back off the handbrake adjusters so the drum doesnt try to pull them off in the process.

BTW good luck....

Tim

I can confirm that the best tool for the job is a scaffold pole. I think I must have been lucky because with just a squirt of WD40 every evening for a week I attached the pole and it gave in straight away. Have now loosened all the leaf spring nuts and with a bit of luck one evening this week will see it all lowered to the ground.
Thanks once again to all the advice
Rodders

I tried searching for an answer about how to get the hub nut off and came across this thread so rather than start another I thought I would reply and ask my question. I bought the hub nut tool from Omicron and successfully removed the offside hub but have today tried to remove the nearside one and failed. Basically I don't seem to have any type of bar I can put through the holes in the tool which is strong enough to take the force needed without bending. What does anyone use? I've just wondered about welding a socket into the tool so I can at least use a breaker bar in it but I'm guessing the tool may be stainless steel and therefore may be beyond my capabilities in terms of welding to a chrome vanadium socket - anyone know if that is the case?

Hoping for help although it will be at least a week before I get another chance to have a try - gives me time to buy something suitable though.

Hi

I know this is a bit different to the front hub nut on the Beta, but similar in that it can be a pig to undo.

The front hub nut is a conventional one, so you use a large socket on it. I had a large pole attached and no amount of me on it would break it.

In the end we used a compressed air gun on it and the nut came off without any delay. The gun was a decent quality one, but the speed it came off was something to see after a fair amount of time spent with a bar.

So if you can get the 'socket' to accept an air gun somehow, suggest you give it a go, might save some fruitless time with a bar.

Peter

Andy

You are correct in that the tool only has a facility for c1/2" bar hole so no 1/2 or 3/4 drive possibility. What is maybe the clue to success is to lose all "lost motion" when exerting force on the bar (BTW it is crucial that the tool is held hard to the nut). So check that the bar is not bending along its length (use a tight fitting strong tube to extend the bar but make sure it goes all the way along the bar to the tool), suspension is not moving, wheel not turning. Failing that - direct some heat onto the nut and try again.

Tim

Failing that you need to drill the nut.....

Thanks for the replies.

I'll ring Omicron in the morning and find out what it is made of. If it is steel welding a socket into it should be possible from what I've read - at least that will give me a 1/2 or 3/4 drive facility which may help.

I want to avoid drilling if possible!

Andy, the tip from Tim re the close fitting tube right up to the tool is the one that will stop the bar from bending!!!
Another thing you might try is to hit the nut hard with a hammer several times to try to break any seal that may have built up in the threads over the years, then the WD40 has a better chance of penetrating into the threads!! The use of a hammer when trying to unscrew things is much underestimated!!! Good luck!!

                               Andy

Failing that - direct some heat onto the nut and try again.

This will not be very good for the wheel bearing unless it has to be replaced, Andrea

I tried the close fitting tube but don't have anything particularly long which fits through the hole in the tool that has any strength to it - really need a hardened steel rod but I don't have that, I looked at sourcing some but eBay only has it from the US with crazy shipping costs! I'll try putting some penetrating oil in it every day until I next get chance to work on it properly.

I had already thought that about heat and the bearing - in particular it would melt the grease in the bearing and reduce its effectiveness.

I have found over many years working on Lancias with tools at my disposal it sometimes is the case that something is sacrificed (which can be replaced) to get the end goal. I would drill the nut ..... or buy a good 1/2" tommy bar.... BTW taking the hub off may well disturb the (original?) bearing making it sensible to factor in replacing it if you dont want to be doing the job in a year's time when it fails the MOT becausing it has gone noisy.

You should really fit new nuts anyway so sacrificing the old one is no big deal and better than breaking the tool (or yourself).  Nuts from Omicron of course

I would also recommend trying an impact gun before getting too medieval. I made a tool out of a 36mm socket and used an old 12v impact gun and after a few goes the nut span off, maybe just lucky but worth a try.

Sean

Interestingly Omicron suggested that it wasn't necessary to buy new nuts!

I will need to modify the tool I have before I can use an impact wrench on the nut - no way of doing so with the t-bar requirement. Omicron say the tool is not stainless steel so at least I can have a go at welding it but I have had another thought before I go down that route - I made a very strong strap wrench when I was replacing suspension spheres on a CItroen XM I owned - they were very tight and it worked well for that so may give it a try around the hub nut tool before modifying it.

In case you are not already doing so your best chance of shifting the nut is to have extensions on both ends of the tee bar and work with an assistant so that you can apply an even torque.
Old steel water pipe is a better fit on the half inch bar than scaffold tubing! See what your local scrap man has lying around! Two four foot lengths should do it.
I agree with Omicron that it is ok to re-use the nuts if they are not damaged.

Do impact hammers and wheel bearings mix? Ben is right on the equal torque bit. I forgot I had to inlist my co-driver once. It worked.

FInally got the nut off - I bought a 34mm impact socket whcih was a pretty good fit inside the Omicron tool and have welded them together.
 Still had to use a long extension bar on the breaker bar I was now able to fit but finally removed the nut this evening so can get on with the brake replacements
(http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd81/andyps1275/Fulvia%20Zagato/DSC_1561.jpg)
(http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd81/andyps1275/Fulvia%20Zagato/DSC_1562.jpg)

To come back to this, I did the nearside rear brake a while ago and finally got round to doing the offside today only to realise that I probably made a silly error and used both of the shoes with the lug for the handbrake lever on the nearside as neither of the two shoes I have left have one. So I went to take the hub off the nearside again and can't shift the nut, even though it hasn't moved since I tightened it.

Just to check I'm not making another schoolboy error, it wasn't a left handed thread was it?

Not left hand thread, more effort needed ::)

As you are doing both sides, one trick is to swap the nuts from side to side, so they will tighten in different places and you will have a fresh tab to bend in.

Dave

It's going to have to wait - I broke the breaker bar  :o

Thanks. Might as well try that, if I ever get the nearside one off again  ;)

I got the hub nut off tonight (replacement head for the breaker bar from Halfords didn't break!!) and dismantled everything only to discover that it wasn't my error. I assembled the brakes correctly so it is Omicron who sent me three of the shoes without the lug for the handbrake mechanism and only one with it. I'm pleased to find I didn't make a mistake but frustrated to have spend a lot of time getting nowhere. Hopefully they will send the replacement quickly.