Lancia Motor Club

Model Technical and Interest => Fulvia => Topic started by: sllim1946 on 28 May, 2011, 08:19:20 PM



Title: 1600 HF "matching numbers"
Post by: sllim1946 on 28 May, 2011, 08:19:20 PM
If a 1600 HF is described as "matching numbers" what would you expect - that the engine number would be close to the chassis number? (obviously the works built more engines than chassis and would build engines for spares throughout the production run). If an engine is a much later number than the chassis number can it still be a matching number and under what circumstances?

Brian Mills


Title: Re: 1600 HF "matching numbers"
Post by: lancialulu on 28 May, 2011, 09:39:05 PM
Brian

I await Mr Cundy to chip in but I dont think there is any correlation twixt chassis and engine numbers in Fulvias....

Tim


Title: Re: 1600 HF "matching numbers"
Post by: fay66 on 28 May, 2011, 11:05:36 PM
I may be wrong but I would take it to mean the the original Chassis number and engine numbers are still together as first registered, with proof that there has been no change. ???
Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: 1600 HF "matching numbers"
Post by: ncundy on 29 May, 2011, 07:31:10 AM
Ahhh....fame  :D

I've never seen any correlation in the strict sense (same number for all). All the fanalones I've seen or am aware of for instance have engine numbers that are within about 20 of the chassis number, but that's only a rule of thumb not an absolute. With engines being produced on one line, chassis on another then being bought together for assembly it'd be a coincidence if everything matched up.

I'd go with Brian's definition, although often you wont have the evidence one way or the other. There are plenty of date stamps on the cars that will help you see if the various bits are from roughly the same period of manufacture.


Title: Re: 1600 HF "matching numbers"
Post by: bruciebonuz on 29 May, 2011, 09:38:33 AM
Chassis and engine on mine are within 1 of each other for what that's worth!


Title: Re: 1600 HF "matching numbers"
Post by: fay66 on 29 May, 2011, 10:36:50 AM
Chassis and engine on mine are within 1 of each other for what that's worth!

From what I understand from Ed Levin in the USA not a lot!
I'll ask Ed for permission to post what he sent me on the subject.

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: 1600 HF "matching numbers"
Post by: ncundy on 30 May, 2011, 07:20:43 AM
Chassis and engine on mine are within 1 of each other for what that's worth!

That's as close as I've heard! Lovely stuff.


Title: Re: 1600 HF "matching numbers"
Post by: fay66 on 01 June, 2011, 08:47:54 AM
Here's the contents of Ed's email with his comments.

Brian
8227 8)

I ran across the LMC UK thread about ”matching numbers” for a Fulvia 1600HF, and you’re absolutely right; the only possible “matching” numbers would be having the engine serial number match the car’s original European registration documents, from a country that noted both engine number as well as chassis number on the reg docs. Given the absence of any factory records, that’s the only possible documentation that could establish what engine that chassis was born with. And that’s the only thing “matching numbers” can possibly mean for a 1600HF; the 1600HF is one model that absolutely cannot have its engine serial number numerically match its chassis number. The chassis numbering started 818.740/1.001001, but the 1.6 engines never changed designation; they started 818.540.1001, with the S1 1.6HF (and works rally cars) taking at least the first 1500 818.540 engine numbers. And, of course, the numbers didn’t even numerically match on the S1 1.6HF; my chassis 871 has its original engine, 804.

 



Title: Re: 1600 HF "matching numbers"
Post by: peterbaker on 01 June, 2011, 10:58:27 AM
I have always believed ,matching numbers' meant current chassis and engine numbers relate exactly to the original registration document.


Title: Re: 1600 HF "matching numbers"
Post by: fay66 on 01 June, 2011, 11:47:57 AM
I have always believed ,matching numbers' meant current chassis and engine numbers relate exactly to the original registration document.
I thought that was what Ed , Neil and myself were saying?

Brian


Title: Re: 1600 HF "matching numbers"
Post by: peterbaker on 01 June, 2011, 12:31:59 PM
Sorry Brian. Ill stay out of it.


Title: Re: 1600 HF "matching numbers"
Post by: fay66 on 01 June, 2011, 12:42:45 PM
Sorry Brian. Ill stay out of it.
No problem Peter, I thought perhaps I hadn't made myself clear?

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: 1600 HF "matching numbers"
Post by: rogerelias on 01 June, 2011, 03:35:48 PM
My 72 Triumph Bonneville have matching frame and engines, i.e the numbers are identical, and thats from the factory build sheet, I think thats what is meant by matching numbers :)


Title: Re: 1600 HF "matching numbers"
Post by: lancialulu on 01 June, 2011, 10:18:57 PM
So does my MAR Ossa 250!!! Hence my definition of matching.....


Title: Re: 1600 HF "matching numbers"
Post by: sllim1946 on 05 June, 2011, 05:19:08 PM
Thanks guys - especially Ed.

So there were probably about 5750 1600 chassis made including HFS(Fanalone?)/HF S1/HF Lusso S2/Sport - using "La Lancia" as my reference. Does anyone know how many 1600 engines were made?

Brian Mills


Title: Re: 1600 HF "matching numbers"
Post by: Dilambdaman on 13 June, 2011, 11:04:28 PM
Chassis and engine on mine are within 1 of each other for what that's worth!

My 1969 Fanalone is Chassis No: 818541 1098 and Eng No: 1103 so just 5 apart.

Robin.