Lancia Motor Club

Model Technical and Interest => Aprilia, Ardennes and Ardea => Topic started by: lancialulu on 24 May, 2011, 11:25:08 AM



Title: Houdaille shock oil??
Post by: lancialulu on 24 May, 2011, 11:25:08 AM
Any ideas on what is equivelent to

Castor Oil 1 Pressure as recommended in Aprilia Series 2 handbook???

For rear shock absorbers on S2 Aprilia.

Thanks

Tim


Title: Re: Houdaille shock oil??
Post by: lancialulu on 24 May, 2011, 08:58:34 PM
Any advance on castor oil! Thats what it looks like when I poked a wire into the shock filler hole.

Tim


Title: Re: Houdaille shock oil??
Post by: Scarpia on 24 May, 2011, 09:16:01 PM
castor oil from the first pressing (not pressure 1).. The same principle as with olive oil.

I can't even remember whats in mine.....i'm guessing a light engine oil but castor oil must be available somewhere..


Title: Re: Houdaille shock oil??
Post by: lancialulu on 24 May, 2011, 09:32:29 PM
"Pressure one" must be a lost in translation from Italian to English maintenance manual!!

That now makes sense as there is a lot of first pressing castor oil on ebay etc....

Warning dont mix with anything else as it gums up.. And dont drink it as it is a strong laxitive

Tim

Just off to the chemist!


Title: Re: Houdaille shock oil??
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 25 May, 2011, 10:14:49 AM
I am sure I was told the correct fluid to use is a Glycol based anti-freeze diluted with 50% water.
One thing to memember is that it is difficult to get air out of the system, particularily the regulartor bag/control knob. When you have filled the rest of the system, take the regulator bag/control knob out of the car, fill with fluid, then reinstall, trying not to spill anti-freeze all over the interior!  The regulator and shocker bags are available new from various vintage suppliers...... probably worth replacing them anyway.


Title: Re: Houdaille shock oil??
Post by: lancialulu on 25 May, 2011, 11:10:02 AM
Glycerine based is for tele control dampers not houdaille I have been told?

Tim


Title: Re: Houdaille shock oil??
Post by: BlueSky on 25 May, 2011, 11:32:36 AM
A bit more clarification. The fluid you use depends on the shockers you have. From what I gather, originally 1st series were just friction, but there seems to be quite a few fitted with Andre Hydro-Telecontrol H.C/2s, they use a mixture of 30% glycerine and distilled water. Later 1st series, from construction no. 6601 on, have SIATA units that, according to the LMC "Maintaining An Aprilia" booklet, use brake fluid. 2nd series have the SIATAs up to no. 11380 and then Houdaille units from then on. I think that is correct!
I have the Andre's and use the glycerine mixture that works fine, once you get all the 17 connections and various other bits to not leak and hold pressure. I'm sure the other setups would have similar problems!
Noel


Title: Re: Houdaille shock oil??
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 25 May, 2011, 07:32:23 PM
Thanks for the correction Noel, I was describing the Andre units.


Title: Re: Houdaille shock oil??
Post by: davidwheeler on 26 May, 2011, 04:59:04 PM
I also have a set of Andre's but not fitted as the bag in the pressuriser has perished.  New bladders for the shockers are available but not (last time I looked) for the pressuriser.  Anybody know where I could find one?


Title: Re: Houdaille shock oil??
Post by: lancialulu on 26 May, 2011, 05:50:49 PM
Just to confirm the Houdaille's are adjustable but not from the dash >:(. A bit like the spax system. Same type of thing on front sliding pillars too on later S2's. So fully independant and adjustable in 1946.... ;D

Tim


Title: Re: Houdaille shock oil??
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 26 May, 2011, 05:55:23 PM
Bags for the pressuriser (Andre) are available @ 42 here http://www.vintagecarparts.co.uk/en/3757~Andre+telecontrol+dash+control+bladder-details/
The also have the rear bags again 42 each.


Title: Re: Houdaille shock oil??
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 26 May, 2011, 06:07:22 PM
This might be of use http://www.oldcarmanualproject.com/manuals/Ford/Haudaille/


Title: Re: Houdaille shock oil??
Post by: lancialulu on 26 May, 2011, 08:09:54 PM
Thanks Ade.

As can be seen on page 5 it is particularly vague on what the replenishing fluid is. But as Lancia Aprilia S2 manual states Castor Oil No. 1 Pressure, I have bought some pharma quality castor oil on ebay.... The manual also says this oil can be used for the back axle but I will stick to EP140.

Tim


Title: Re: Houdaille shock oil??
Post by: davidwheeler on 02 June, 2011, 09:01:47 AM
Thanks for that, bladder ordered.
This may be of interest to members...
http://media.wiley.com/product_data/excerpt/0X/04705102/047051020X.pdf


Title: Re: Houdaille shock oil??
Post by: davidwheeler on 04 June, 2011, 06:08:29 PM
The Houdaille shock absorber fitted to the 2nd series is not the same as a Telecontrol.  This link relates to the Houdaille type
http://reocities.com/MotorCity/garage/1205/hdis.html
I notice they suggest glycerin!
I would guess that brake fluid would be the stuff for Telecontrols.  I have got my new bladders.  Watch this space!


Title: Re: Houdaille shock oil??
Post by: davidwheeler on 04 June, 2011, 06:20:47 PM
Or try this link (ici on parle Francaise)
http://www.amicale-salmson.org/phorum/read.php?1,17321,17330)


Title: Re: Houdaille shock oil??
Post by: BlueSky on 04 June, 2011, 09:58:42 PM
I have a copy of the Andre manual on my publications page if that helps anyone.
http://web.me.com/noelmacwhirter/home/Publications.html

Tim if you have any problems with your Houdailles you could always follow the Sterling Moss example, in the photo he's actually belting the daylights out of the stuck Houdaille shocks on the 250F using a wheel mallet :)
Noel


Title: Re: Houdaille shock oil??
Post by: lancialulu on 05 June, 2011, 09:31:51 AM
David

It seems that the yanks used Glycerin - and gorrilla mechanics to service the Houdialles fitted to Fords, where as your French forum clear extolls the use of Castor Oil.

I have now got some pharma quality castor oil and will carry out a "tasting" (ugh)...

Noel - I alway carry a 3lb mallet with me...

Tim


Title: Re: Houdaille shock oil??
Post by: lancialulu on 08 June, 2011, 09:14:18 AM
Tasting update...seems my shocks had Castor oil (AFAICT) so topped up with my new supply - one side didnt need too much while the other (o/s) took 125ml's I suspect the seal has gone but am in no hurry to try to dismantle having read the Houdaille manual on the subject. Amyone had a go and is it possible??

Tim


Title: Re: Houdaille shock oil??
Post by: davidwheeler on 08 June, 2011, 07:06:30 PM
Sterling chap, Stirling.
Re Andre Telecontrol, the correct fluid is 30% glycerin in water.   
Look on the technical information thread for full details of this system at
http://web.me.com/noelmacwhirter/home/Publications_files/Andre%20Telecontrol.pdf


Title: Re: Houdaille shock oil??
Post by: Scarpia on 08 June, 2011, 09:05:09 PM
Quote
I suspect the seal has gone but am in no hurry to try to dismantle having read the Houdaille manual on the subject. Amyone had a go and is it possible??

you should see signs of a leak if there is one.The type fitted to the aprilia is very long lived and reliable and in practical terms cannot be (and doesn't need to be) serviced outside of topping up oil.I had mine tested on a test bench because i assumed they would be worn but they perfomed very well.
In addition the mot here involves a very demanding suspension test which vibrates the wheels at varying frequencies with an electronic graph of the damping performance and balance of the two sides. The houdailles comfortable exceed the requirements whereas several nieuwe models actually don't reach them eg the nieuwe fiat 500 which is causing legal problems and warranty disputes with dealers in belgium.
I understand there is only one reliable company that can take them apart (in the US). attempting this yourself or in a local willing workshop will simply end up as destructive testing .


Title: Re: Houdaille shock oil??
Post by: lancialulu on 09 June, 2011, 08:26:44 AM
"you should see signs of a leak if there is one.The type fitted to the aprilia is very long lived and reliable and in practical terms cannot be (and doesn't need to be) serviced outside of topping up oil.I had mine tested on a test bench because i assumed they would be worn but they perfomed very well." quote...

I dont suspect any issues re damping performance. It is just a shame that the automatic seal adjusment may have ceased working. I agree looking at some US posts on the dampers it is ever so likely to end in tears...

Tim


Title: Re: Houdaille shock oil??
Post by: davidwheeler on 28 June, 2011, 03:08:03 PM
ON NO ACCOUNT use brake fluid.
Correct fluid is 30% glycerin in water.  See technical matters only post for manufacturer's original information.