Lancia Motor Club

Model Technical and Interest => Flavia => Topic started by: LanciAlan on 22 May, 2011, 07:52:38 AM



Title: Lancia Cruelty?
Post by: LanciAlan on 22 May, 2011, 07:52:38 AM
I've had some adverse feedback since I put a towbar on my 2000HF, both from an aesthetic perspective and also from the "how could you!" one....

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_0qTZ1XT2Y2w/Tdi_pJC5brI/AAAAAAAABC0/Of3TGffkUl8/s640/DSCN1009.jpg)

I actually did it so that I could take 2 Lancias to a recent event at which I had promised to loan a car to an overseas visitor. The original plan was to spend 6 hours before the event delivering one car  - a round trip of over 300 miles  - but neither car was ready until the last minute and I was too busy preparing them. A rare example (for me) of placing a realistic value on my own time and taking an easier and cheaper alternative approach!

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_0qTZ1XT2Y2w/TaK-Wt-i-fI/AAAAAAAAA8E/CEq83HRTZDo/s640/DSCN0910.JPG)


None of my Lancias are ever going to be so perfect that they can't be used to do hard work!


Title: Re: Lancia Cruelty?
Post by: DavidLaver on 22 May, 2011, 09:05:12 AM

Hats off to you !!

David


Title: Re: Lancia Cruelty?
Post by: m tulloch on 22 May, 2011, 12:39:58 PM
Nowt wrong with that! Just ignore them.


Title: Re: Lancia Cruelty?
Post by: lee69 on 22 May, 2011, 05:19:08 PM
Nowt wrong with that! Just ignore them.

It would have been more cruel if the Y10 was towing the 2000! I'm sure the 2000's got plenty of torque too. Now you need a contemporary caravan....


Title: Re: Lancia Cruelty?
Post by: chugga boom on 22 May, 2011, 06:49:45 PM
alan its your car do what you want to it and not what others want , looks fine and my dad always harps on about what a great tow car a flavia is! its better to see it used as intended rather than being towed or trailered  ;D


Title: Re: Lancia Cruelty?
Post by: peterbaker on 22 May, 2011, 07:26:15 PM
The Aurelia I bought from a farmer had a tow bar. The imagination runs wild!


Title: Re: Lancia Cruelty?
Post by: fay66 on 22 May, 2011, 07:33:13 PM
Alan,
Great idea and certainly not cruel, I should think the Y10 was very pleased to be towed by such an illustrious forbearer of the Marque.
One thing puzzling me, why the length of the bar, being its only a two wheel suspended tow trailer, or does it convert into a four wheel trailer?

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Lancia Cruelty?
Post by: LanciAlan on 22 May, 2011, 10:49:43 PM
Yes it tows very well - plenty of low end torque but I take it easy being careful not to strain or overload anything.

Brian I don't know why the drawbar is so long - its short enough to make the towed car look pretty close in the rear view mirror! One reason for its length is to store the pretty heavy duty ramps when on the move - you can see them stowed there in the first picture.



Title: Re: Lancia Cruelty?
Post by: peteracs on 23 May, 2011, 09:43:49 AM
Hi

It looks to me like it may have been a converted boat trailer which would explain the length.

One benefit of a long distance between the towbar and the wheels is that should you ever need to reverse it, the longer the distance between theses two makes for much easier reversing. Anyone who has ever tried to reverse one of the small trailers will confirm how much of a pain they are going backwards.

Peter


Title: Re: Lancia Cruelty?
Post by: LanciAlan on 23 May, 2011, 01:03:14 PM
Don't think it was ever a boat trailer ... though some of the components would certainly be common. While it does not bear a manufacturers' plate apart from the Knott towing hook at the front, I believe these were purpose built for professional vehicle recovery and the design features of its construction do suggest this (I've had it apart for a rebuild).

Fair point about reversing though - when unladen, it is so low as to be difficult to see all of it when reversing! When laden with a car it is impossible to reverse as the trailer's brakes apply when you push it backwards - and even if they don't, the whole thing turns into a letter "Z" pretty quick as it is effectively articulated at two points -the towbar and the towed car's steering. I've done it where absoloutely essential by just rolling backwards down a convenient hill and hoping for the best but it's pretty well uncontrollable/unpredicatable in reverse. Requires careful journey planning and parking!


Title: Re: Lancia Cruelty?
Post by: fay66 on 23 May, 2011, 06:11:41 PM
I used to drive articulated Lorries years ago, and a long trailer is always easier to reverse as it doesn't turn as quick as a short one, giving to time to catch any movement out of line.
Alan,
as far as reversing applying the overrun brakes, normally there would be a 'U' shaped piece that could be dropped behind the towing mechanism to stop it activating the overrun brakes when reversing, but being that the trailer has 2 articulated points, this would negate the effect of the U piece,  unless something similar could be used to stop the rear wheels moving out of line as well.
As a matter of interest Alan Cooper tells me that when he first bought your Flavia Coupe, it was already fitted with a tow bar, which AC removed as he had no need for it. so it's just resuming a role it has been used for before!
Overall the trailer is quite short, certainly compared to a full car carrying one, I had the same problem of not being able to see the trailer at all when empty,  I had a small trailer for carrying my 1969 Raleigh Moped, eventually I bought a special rack that mounts in between the ball and the towbar, that allows me to carry the moped width ways across the back of the car, so I didn't have to worry about speed either.
Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Lancia Cruelty?
Post by: HF_Dave on 23 May, 2011, 09:11:59 PM
Alan, the Y10 never went as fast in it's life.


Title: Re: Lancia Cruelty?
Post by: LanciAlan on 24 May, 2011, 06:06:59 AM
As a matter of interest Alan Cooper tells me that when he first bought your Flavia Coupe, it was already fitted with a tow bar, which AC removed as he had no need for it. so it's just resuming a role it has been used for before!

Indeed - I hadn't known that the car previously had a towbar though one of the things that went really well in fitting it was when I found the holes were already there in the chassis and in exactly the right places. I was able to finish a job in time for tea.... for a change.

Overall the trailer is quite short, certainly compared to a full car carrying one

Its a very handy piece of equipment - especially to store when not in use as it takes up no space relative to a transporter trailer. I used to hire full trailers for my secret missions to recover eBay purchases from the UK but this makes life a lot easier (going forward at least) and places far less load on the tow car. Here's a pic of said 2000HF arriving in Dublin at dawn circa 2005 ....

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_0qTZ1XT2Y2w/TdtKRsoQz1I/AAAAAAAABDc/Nu4gwqGIST8/s400/P8280226.JPG) (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_0qTZ1XT2Y2w/TdtKR16PamI/AAAAAAAABDg/heMhYqSjwgk/s400/P8280227.JPG)


Title: Re: Lancia Cruelty?
Post by: fay66 on 24 May, 2011, 08:55:13 AM
Alan,
Very nice photos and Looks a great bit of kit, does the long bar detach or does it fold up out of the way?

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Lancia Cruelty?
Post by: LanciAlan on 12 June, 2011, 12:38:43 PM
Hi Brian

I seem to have lost sight of this thread after your last post on 23May - life must have got a bit busy around then.

It sometimes occurs to me that there must be a lot of useful and interesting material (this not being a prime example or anything) lost in the labyrinthine pathways of fora like this when a thread runs dry for a while and effectively becomes a loose end!

As I am sure others do, I use the "new replies" links above to catch up on new posts at each visit here. I only rarely browse the various topics that are organised by subject on the front page. I have had only mixed degrees of success in using the search function, whether to research something of particular interest or (as someone else observed recently) to find a thread that I knew I had seen before but couldn't re-locate when I wanted to refer to it. I guess fora are meant to be like that - more of a conversation than a library.

Anyhow, to answer your question, the long towing bar doesn't normally detach when in use or in storage as it is pivoted on the transverse axle bar and also attaches to two track rods that act on the wheel carrier pods - sort of a steering system that makes it easer to turn corners. I may have a picture somewhere.

It is certainly a great piece of equipment but, being of heavy duty construction, it is not a lightweight one and, although taking up less space, it is not a lot easier to move by hand than a full transporter trailer! The jockey wheel is essential!


Title: Re: Lancia Cruelty?
Post by: fay66 on 12 June, 2011, 11:04:01 PM
Alan,
Certainly looks like a well made bit of kit!

brian


Title: Re: Lancia Cruelty?
Post by: Dilambdaman on 14 June, 2011, 10:50:15 PM
I used to tow a large covered trailer and my Carlight classic caravan with a 2000 saloon.

I approached my local tow bar fitting depot to see if they could manufacture a bar for the 2000. To my amazement it was still listed and more than that , the supplier had one on the shelf!

Pictures are of a visit to the 2001 Le Mans 24hr race. The second photo was taken as we boarded the Brittany ferry at St Malo and Margaret has written on the back; 'Made it!' which just about says it all as I remember.  ::)

Robin.


Title: Re: Lancia Cruelty?
Post by: fay66 on 14 June, 2011, 10:56:44 PM
I used to tow a large covered trailer and my Carlight classic caravan with a 2000 saloon.

I approached my local tow bar fitting depot to see if they could manufacture a bar for the 2000. To my amazement it was still listed and more than that , the supplier had one on the shelf!

Pictures are of a visit to the 2001 Le Mans 24hr race. The second photo was taken as we boarded the Brittany ferry at St Malo and Margaret has written on the back; 'Made it!' which just about says it all as I remember.  ::)

Robin.

robin,
Great photos.

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Lancia Cruelty?
Post by: chriswgawne on 15 June, 2011, 08:17:18 AM
Sadly I dont have any photos to prove this but back in the early 80's, we used to use Jacky's Fulvia Sedan 2C to tow a Shetland Family 4 Cabin cruiser on a heavy old trailer complete with Honda 15hp outboard fitted and with 3 young children + paraphernalia in the back & boot of the Fulvia!
Slightly overloaded methinks although the only problem we ever had was dragging the boat + trailer UP a wet slipway when the front wheels had no traction. Solution? Find 2 large onlookers and get one to sit on each front wing.


Title: Re: Lancia Cruelty?
Post by: Dilambdaman on 15 June, 2011, 09:11:37 AM
How about this then!  :o

Actually the camera on this occasion does lie.

When I fitted the body to the Dilambda I welded  a steel box section between the rear chassis legs and drilled it to take a tow bar intending to  tow the Carlight caravan. With the body fitted it became obvious that it was going to be difficult to do and my local tow bar centre guys were very sceptical of the outcome. So, being totally absorbed with the engine problems Modestine was plagued with at the time the project was put on the back burner. I've now sold the caravan so that's that I guess, although someone in future years may well be foxed by the additional hardware welded to the chassis.

However, I did put car and caravan together to see what it would look like , hence the photographs. Pretty impressive I reckon?

Robin.


Title: Re: Lancia Cruelty?
Post by: DavidLaver on 15 June, 2011, 03:23:38 PM

I'm trying to visualise with the caravan painted to match.

David


Title: Re: Lancia Cruelty?
Post by: Dilambdaman on 15 June, 2011, 05:32:42 PM

I'm trying to visualise with the caravan painted to match.

David

That was very much on the cards too.   :o

Robin


Title: Re: Lancia Cruelty?
Post by: JohnMillham on 15 June, 2011, 08:26:59 PM
In the mid '70s I made a towbar to fit the Flavia Vignale, which was my everyday car at the time. This was to enable me to tow a trailer carrying an Austin Seven to the Nurburgring, to race it. It turned out to be a really big job, as there wasn't much bodywork that was strong enough to attach the brackets. We did finally make it and I was most impressed with the Flavia's fuel economy, which hardly noticed the trailer and two biggish (and one not so big) blokes. No matter what I did to that car, it always returned about 30 mpg. The Flavia survived the trip with flying colours, but the trailer had to be repaired in one of the BAOR workshops in Germany, as it tried to break in half.
 Regards, John


Title: Re: Lancia Cruelty?
Post by: fay66 on 15 June, 2011, 09:11:42 PM
Robin,
Very impressive, what a great outfit that would have made to take to the Vintage Caravan Club Meetings.

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Lancia Cruelty?
Post by: HF_Dave on 17 June, 2011, 04:56:55 PM
What year was the caravan ? it looks like a caravan my aunt had out on the coast in north Co, Dublin Back in the 60s, looking at your pictures takes me back.  :)


Title: Re: Lancia Cruelty?
Post by: the.cern on 17 June, 2011, 07:33:44 PM
It may be fantasy, but I'm sure I remember a Dilambda? towing a Gussie on a trailer at one of the 70s AGMs !!!!!!!

Does anyone else remember it ?  If so who was the brave driver, was it Arthur Keeling ??

                         Andy


Title: Re: Lancia Cruelty?
Post by: Dilambdaman on 17 June, 2011, 11:44:22 PM
What year was the caravan ? it looks like a caravan my aunt had out on the coast in north Co, Dublin Back in the 60s, looking at your pictures takes me back.  :)

The Caravan is a 1973 Carlight Casetta. It cost around 4000 when new which figure purchased me a brand new 3 bedroom house in Sussex at about the same time! Carlight were making just 25 - 30 caravans a year and I believe are still in business.  

I bought the van in the late 90s and having carried out some necessary repairs used it for attending antique fairs and trips to Le Mans etc. It's last outing was to the VSCC 75th Anniversary Rally held at Malvern in 2009. I sold it on Ebay last autumn and have already regretted doing so.

Robin.


Title: Re: Lancia Cruelty?
Post by: DavidLaver on 18 June, 2011, 08:40:23 AM

I really can't believe you got me to look up a caravan... 

Here they are:

http://www.carlight.co.uk/corporate/brochures/70s.pdf
http://www.carlight.co.uk/corporate/history/1970s.html

I guess that these days that sort of quality (and customer) would go be in a 100K motorhome rather than a caravan.

David


Title: Re: Lancia Cruelty?
Post by: HF_Dave on 20 June, 2011, 08:17:51 PM
I don't think my Aunts caravan was anything near as posh as that. In my mind's eye I can see it looking the same, but thats more than 35 yrs ago :)