Lancia Motor Club

Model Technical and Interest => Aprilia, Ardennes and Ardea => Topic started by: lancialulu on 08 April, 2011, 06:55:31 PM



Title: Bleeding Aprilia brakes
Post by: lancialulu on 08 April, 2011, 06:55:31 PM
As a newbie to this Aprilia (with its odd plunger and remote fluid reservoir) hydraulic system, can anyone guide me to the correct sequence to bleed this system (Sabif) having just rebuilt the master cylinder?

Many thanks

Tim


Title: Re: Bleeding Aprilia brakes
Post by: ben on 09 April, 2011, 02:41:45 PM
Hi Tim
         I don't think there is any magic to bleeding the Aprilia brakes. I believe the general rule is to start with the wheel nearest the master cylinder and work outwards but I usually find it pays to go around all the wheels at least twice so the order then doesnt matter. The important thing is to have plenty of fluid to hand and keep the resevoir topped up.
                      Best of luck
                                       Ben


Title: Re: Bleeding Aprilia brakes
Post by: Scarpia on 09 April, 2011, 04:57:03 PM
at the risk of starting a debate (here goes) I thought you should always start at the wheel "furthest" from the master cylinder and work "inwards".

The piston on the fluid reservoir (2nd series only?)is useful as it simulates a second person pressing the brake peddle making it a one man job (almost).
the fluid drops quickly so you need to top up regularly.Cleanliness very important.

Tim, are you certain about the state of the master cylinder, you need to be careful with rebuilding and be sure the inner walls are not (even a little) pitted with corrosion . This may not look more than a dark shadow inside in the metal but can lead to sudden failure which is undesirable especially on mountain passes......sleeving is also of doubtful reliability;exact replicas are available and not too expensive.


Title: Re: Bleeding Aprilia brakes
Post by: lancialulu on 09 April, 2011, 11:23:49 PM
William

Am confident the master cylinder is OK but rear seal had gone in a big way (c 20 years old from what I can gather).

What is the purpose of the plunger on the reservoir??

Tim


Title: Re: Bleeding Aprilia brakes
Post by: ColinMarr on 10 April, 2011, 08:33:55 AM
Tim,

I havenít had any direct experience of Aprilia S2 brakes, so I may be wrong. The existence of a plunger on the top of the reservoir suggests it might be like the system used on the Aurelia. On an Aurelia the plunger is spring loaded so that you pull it up to pressurise the system. It should stay up and if it falls this suggests a leak in the system. With this arrangement itís also possible to bleed the brakes single-handed although you do have to keep topping up the fluid and re-pressurising the system.

Oh how I envy you working on those in-board rear brakes! No swearing on a Sunday please.

Colin


Title: Re: Bleeding Aprilia brakes
Post by: ben on 10 April, 2011, 10:22:56 AM
If you are right William that might explain why I always have to go around twice!!


Title: Re: Bleeding Aprilia brakes
Post by: JohnMillham on 10 April, 2011, 11:02:34 AM
If you are right William that might explain why I always have to go around twice!!
I think William is correct, but even then I always have to go round twice!
Regards, John


Title: Re: Bleeding Aprilia brakes
Post by: lancialulu on 10 April, 2011, 05:09:12 PM
Thanks for all this great input. Didnt try it today as great weather for other stuff so swearing is on hold!! Anyway, I am assuming inboard brakes are no problem if the car is up high enough or over a pit??

I assume the the spring loaded plunger on the reservoir goes down eventually??? or does it  stick up all the time if the system is working correctly.

With the massive loss of brake fluid I have some tidying and repainting of the chassis area around the master cylinder anyway..

Tim

PS I would go round maybe more than twice on a fulvia and still get a little bubble or two out every time I checked the nearside front....


Title: Re: Bleeding Aprilia brakes
Post by: ColinMarr on 10 April, 2011, 06:10:55 PM
Tim,

The plunger should stay up and should feel hard if you try to push it down. If it goes down it is supposed to warn you that you have lost fluid and something is wrong!

Some of the D20 - D25 race cars had the plunger protruding through the scuttle to be visible to the driver Ė just to warn him when to get really worried! You should just be able to make it out in this photo of Castellotti Ė just in front of his right knee.

Colin


Title: Re: Bleeding Aprilia brakes
Post by: Scarpia on 10 April, 2011, 06:56:34 PM
you can access the rear brake nipples through the cover in the boot. Not much space to balance a container (with anti return valve) but it is feasible. no pit necessary. Even without obvious faults the plunger on the reservoir will very gradually lower with time (weeks) but as colin says, you cannot push it down if it's ok.
The fulvia is much more difficult, i've never had great success in bleeding the brakes on mine.The master cylinder is a pig to get the air out. .


Title: Re: Bleeding Aprilia brakes
Post by: lancialulu on 11 April, 2011, 07:10:03 AM
Re fulvia, I rigged up a positive pressure (c 2 psi) on the master cylinder which mad a great difference. On one master cylinder before I had this set up I couldnt get the air out and deduced the the small (c.7mm) feed hole was just too small for the viscous silicone brake fluid (in winter) to flow through so I opened it up to 1mm and problem solved.

Tim


Title: Re: Bleeding Aprilia brakes
Post by: davidwheeler on 16 April, 2011, 01:11:41 PM
"Professionals" use system pressurisers.  The rest of us can get by very well with an Eezibleed from the likes of Halfords.  Saves having to borrow the wife's foot.


Title: Re: Bleeding Aprilia brakes
Post by: fay66 on 16 April, 2011, 11:50:30 PM
"Professionals" use system pressurisers.  The rest of us can get by very well with an Eezibleed from the likes of Halfords.  Saves having to borrow the wife's foot.

And they last, had mine for getting on 50 years, frightened the life out of me the first time I used it and the the plastic brake fluid resevoir puffed up, I had visions of the resevoir going bang! but it never did.


Brian


Title: Re: Bleeding Aprilia brakes
Post by: Scarpia on 17 April, 2011, 06:50:16 AM
with a lot of fiddling I use one too but the supplied adaptors don't really fit properly on the (series 2 fulvia) reservoir.I rig up two clamps to hold it in place tightly enough.On the aprilia it's not necessary to use the eazybleed as the built in plunger does the job.


Title: Re: Bleeding Aprilia brakes
Post by: davidwheeler on 27 April, 2011, 09:22:59 AM
It does say in the instructions not to exceed 10psi.  If you connect it up to the nearest wheel (as I did once) then it can be distinctly alarming.


Title: Re: Bleeding Aprilia brakes
Post by: lancialulu on 13 May, 2011, 05:37:39 PM
Quick update....

Having fitted the cylinder, I refilled the master cylinder, gave the plunger some full pulls, and to my surprise the plunger stayed up and I found I had solid brake pedal half way down without any bleeding. Early days but amazing....

Tim


Title: Re: Bleeding Aprilia brakes
Post by: JohnMillham on 13 May, 2011, 09:17:22 PM
But it still needs to be bled, as there's sure to be air in the system.


Title: Re: Bleeding Aprilia brakes
Post by: lancialulu on 14 May, 2011, 06:51:21 AM
Absolutely but it is a step in the right direction. But surprised there was no sponginess. The brakes work and arnt locked on.

Tim

I will start at the back having found the inspection hatch.


Title: Re: Bleeding Aprilia brakes
Post by: lancialulu on 15 May, 2011, 05:40:51 PM
Further update. Apart from finding a blocked bleed nipple at the back (never seen before) bleeding the Aprilia with its pump reservoir (and hatch access to the rear drums) is the easiest and most rewarding of any car I have worked on! Pedal really firm and right at the top. And the plunger stays up......

Tim


Title: Re: Bleeding Aprilia brakes
Post by: DavidLaver on 16 May, 2011, 10:07:36 AM

The rear hatch is such a treat you'll be in there every other week seeing if the thing needs adjusting - assuming it has a mechanical adjustment as my SIII B20 had...

Are the front dampers adjustable?  I used to include that on the standard tour for people as well.

David


Title: Re: Bleeding Aprilia brakes
Post by: lancialulu on 16 May, 2011, 01:54:51 PM
Yes adjustable dampers - decarbon fulvias eat your heart out!!!

Yes rears are adjustable as well although I havnt touched them and the pedal is at the top. (just dreading a stuck piston...)

Tim