Lancia Motor Club

This photo was sent by a friend, part of a batch having to do with friends of my youth, he is unaware of my interest in Lancia's and it was the only one he printed, all the other photos are still on negatives!


Taken at Silverstone in 1959 or 1960, does anyone recognise the car, I can't read all of the number plate but what I can see in the original is -71MH, with possibly only one number being missing.
I've looked in the 2000 Register but nothing like that registration appears.

It was a typical driving test day by look of it, but my friend has no idea of who it might have been, I shall ask someone else who I now know was also there.
So in the meantime does anyone know anymore.

Brian
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No picture?

The only person I can recall competing regularly in a Theta at that time was Marcia Fisher in her enormous green doctor's coupe sort of thing.  The car is now being rebuilt by Tim Jones and should be out again soon. 

John,
I know the car you're talking about, can't say I was ever a fan of the body but it was rather imposing, and i've just been looking at a photo of at Prescott, on the sunday of the LMC 50th in 1997.

Brian
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Whoops!

Brian
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It looks like the number plate is white with darker letters with a triangle above, could it be on trade plates ???

Think you've got it in one Roger I hadn't noticed the triangle. If that's the case not likely that I'll get an answer.
Customers car in for repair and used without his knowledge for little bit of weekend fun ???

Brian
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Looks more like a Kappa than a Theta to me, could be on trade plate a common feature at early VSCC meets (not that I am old enough to remember but have seen some early 50s photos!).

Don

Thanks Don,
How do you tell the difference?
I'll have to have a word with someone else who I now know was at the meeting when the photo was taken.
Didn't realise about the trade plates, at the time I used to go to Silverstone but in those days it was to watch the motorbike racing.
Not at Silverstone, and not in a Lancia, but me in mid 1960's in my MG 1100 taking part in a similar driving test.
Brian
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Brian

Deeper radiator and therefore higher bonnet line plus Kappas more frequently on disc wheels.  Body work also looks more post 1918 than pre 1914 although it could be ex WD rebodied but still think its a Kappa.

Only realy definative way to tell would be an interior shot of the driving compartment, Theta has right hand gear lever & handbrake, Kappa's are central.

Don

This must be the Marcia Fischer car, BH2563, at Donnington I think, a fair few yeard ago.

Frank

Thanks Don.

Brian

Don,
Bit of a puzzle here, I'm assured by a friend, Peter Thompson a member of the VSCC who was there when this photo was taken , Peter  and his wife Janet own a collection ranging from Brighton Run Veteran to 1920 Bentley through to a DB6 , (Haven't persuaded him to buy a Lancia yet though I'm trying!)  says it is a Theta, and was owned by a Mr Arthur Jeddie?- Fisher, a VSCC member who died not too long ago.

Brian
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Brian

The Jeddre Fisher car is pictured in Franks post it was known as the greenhouse for obviois reasons.
Its the only Theta I ever saw them with.

The only other person how might know the car in your photo is Roland Grazebrook.

Don

It's now owned by Tim Jones, who expects to be out in it soon, after an extensive rebuild.

John,
Are you talking about the  green Doctors Coupe or the photo that I started the thread with?  unless the bodywork was drastically altered after my photos date, there are a number of differences such as shorter cabin, the windscreen being changed from fixed centre strut, to a horizontal opening 2 piece windscreen. Artillery Wheels in place of Discs, the front wings extended further around the front wheels. and the headlamps situated lower.
All in all it doesn't seem to add up to the same car, and if it is, it reverted to being the ugly duckling instead of the swan .
Is it possible for me to contact Tim Jones as I don't know him and I would like to discuss it with him to see if they might be one and the same.

Brian
8227 8)

The green one was the Jeddere-Fisher car, now owned by Tim Jones. It's not the same car. Tim's a long standing VSCC member, but I'm not sure he's got round to joining the LMC yet. Roland might well know the other car, which probably isn't a Theta, as Don has written.

This car is actually a Kappa, not a Theta - it was owned from 1954 for many years by the Lisle family and is chassis and engine number B7569 chassis built 1921, registered XK4976.
One of the later Kappas as it has the forged 'I' section front axle instead of the folded up 'U' section centre with the riveted in forged ends. Wheels are 6 stud Michelin with 895x135 beaded edge tyres. 
It had a plate by the foot pedals reading " Projetti, Orlando     
                                                         Ridge Dene
                                                         Box Ridge Avenue
                                                         Purley
                                                         Surrey
                                                         England
                                                         30 H.P LANCIA No 440  1917 KGS"
When I met this car and K S Lisle, the then owner, in January 1979 at his home ("Solva", Vine Grove, Hillingdon Middx) he told me that the car was imported by Orlando Projetti, then Italian Ambassador, in early 1921 in touring car form but as converted by Proctors of Uxbridge in 1921 to a four seater, two door saloon with a dicky taking another two, making it a six passenger car.  It was subsequently sold to a Mr Bailey from whom the Lisle garage acquired it.
The car was in excellent order and had been the subject of considerable expenditure and repainted black roof, canary yellow below the waist line, black wings and wheels with yellow hubs showing in the wheel centres. The car appeared in a film, "The Magic Box" where the carburettor spring broke, the driver got frightened and jumped out so the engine was allowed to race and was damaged. It was auctioned in London shortly after I saw it but failed to reach reserve. I think that when KS Lisle died it was inherited by his son and was later sold but I have had no contact with it or the Lisle's since the late '70s. Would like to know what happened to it - it was in just restored condition so would surely have been preserved.
More details can be found in the Spring 1968 issue of The Lancia Motor Club Journal in a article by K S Lisle with photos of car and engine.
Roland Grazebrook

A little bit more of the history of XK 4976: Arthur Bailey bought the car in 1950 from a Mr Searle, who had bought it from the Projettis, for £50. Arthur wrote to the Projettis to enquire about the car and a scan of the reply from Leslie Projetti (legible I hope) is below. This makes fascinating reading. Leslie Projetti claims that he had 78 mph out of the car which, with a 3.5:1 rear axle is perfectly credible. A couple of photographs of the car when Arthur owned it are also attached.

And a little bit more on the human side of the story – here is a photo taken at the Phoenix in October 2010. Arthur Bailey is on the right hand side of this picture of him and John Turner looking at Arthur’s amazing photo album, which includes details of many of the Lancias and other cars he owned over many years.

Colin

Is this a Theta?

YES!!! Its the 1914 "Barnstable" tourer when owned by the late Oliver Grey sold by Bonhams now owned by the Wards who rebodied it and drove it in the Peking to Paris.

I drove it when Oliver owned it it was very good but not particularly sporty unlike Roland's which really goes.

1980, and a few other now old cars on the road. Here is a more recent photo from the net   

Chassis number B2251 and engine number 2251, dated 1914 by VCC (Certificate number 1004). Note that the registration number is 1911 issue and must have been transferred - not unusual to keep one's own number in those days. It was bought new by Dr Eden of Harley Street, who also had a house in Devon. On holiday in 1920, Dr Eden bought a new car and the car went to a dealer in Plymouth and then to Thurlestone garage owner, Mr Dent who fancied it for a tow truck and repair van. He cut up the body accordingly and used it on and off until 1961 when Capt N J Cliff RN of Hawksland, Winkleigh, Devon and a well known VCC member, acquired it jointly with Oliver Gray, a farmer of Great Beere, North Tawton, Devon and  they applied to have it dated  by the VCC in May 1962, Mrs Eden and Mr Dent being still alive at this time and they provided much information of the early history of the car. Oliver Gray became sole owner in the early '60's and told me Dent's garage offered him the remains of the original tourer body which was "down the orchard at the back" but he did not get it.  Oliver restored the car and built  a replica of the 'Barnstaple two seat body' shown in the 1914 UK Lancia Catalogue, using the remains of the original as far back as the back of the front seats but fitting new wings which were easier for him to make.  He kept this car for many years and used in many VCC and some LMC events over the years, covering up to 15,000 miles per annum.  He then moved to Alcester in Warwickshire and started restoring veteran cars and water mills and running his own water mill. The sons sent it to auction and was bought by the Ward Brothers of Yorkshire, in, I think, 2005, who again restored the car and altered the body to enable them to take part in the Peking to Paris Rally, which they successfully completed after some trouble with stub axle breakage, the car being fitted with it's original earlier design modified to take taper roller bearings. The car is still in their possession.

Monterey 1979