Lancia Motor Club

Model Technical and Interest => Delta and Prisma => Topic started by: Chris5090 on 15 April, 2009, 06:48:41 PM

Title: I wonder if i'm crazy??
Post by: Chris5090 on 15 April, 2009, 06:48:41 PM
There i was, sitting having a trawl through eBay, and i came across a Delta HF Turbo engine. Now i've always liked these engines, and being half way through a kit car build with no engine that was my first choice. A quick phone call later and i was the proud owner of said engine. And a car, oops!

My plan was to pick up the car, break it for spares as i was told it was rotten, keep the engine for a spare and sell the rest. I arrived to pick it up and it didn't seem too bad. A quick look confirmed my suspition that it was indeed not to bad, so, in my infinite wisdom i decided to tidy it up and use it. I think i may have gone a little far though.... ::)




So i was just wondering if anyone else had decided to restore a 2wd Delta yet?
I have loads more questions which will appear over time ;D

Oh and by the way, the engine in the car had no Main Bearing caps :( :o
And the original engine i rang about has the most worn bores i've ever seen, so suggestions on pistons please! ;D

Title: Re: I wonder if i'm crazy??
Post by: chugga boom on 16 April, 2009, 08:56:23 PM
so where's the rot then? looks incredibly good, was it fairly complete?? good luck with it looks an interesting project

Title: Re: I wonder if i'm crazy??
Post by: Chris5090 on 16 April, 2009, 10:51:26 PM
When i bought the car it complete, (the only thing missing was the main bearing caps?? ???)

The rot is mainly confined to the bottoms of the sills, front inner arches where they meet the front panel, front cross member, boot floor, rear arches (i have 1 new wing and can repair the other without much trouble) and the rear of the roof of course (though just a couple of little holes).




These are some of the worst bits, so for a Delta it certainly isn't bad, but that could have something to do with the mysterious plugs drilled into every box section! ;)

I have managed to locate new front wings from Italy, they where apparantly the last pair Lancia had in stock, I have a new rear passenger wing, and i'm going to get sills made. Other than that it's a relatively simple job to be honest. The rear suspension crossmember was also very rotten, so i managed to again get one from Italy, only to buy one in this country for a fraction of the price!

The plan is to rebuild the car totally standard, apart from maybe a stainless exhaust and a couple of other engine mods. I'd like to see a reliable 160 - 170 bhp. Oh and the paint, i've always loved the Martini colours!  ;D

Title: Re: I wonder if i'm crazy??
Post by: chugga boom on 16 April, 2009, 11:02:57 PM
sounds like your going the right way about things!, i've got quite abit of hf turbo parts at my dads house, if you get stuck for anything give me a try and i'll see whats there, i know i have 1 really good front wing, dash board, instruments carpet , bottom arms , hubs , calipers, drive shafts etc, there were 2 engines 1 carb model 1 ie, these went to my friend howard at ALLITALIA in wrexham 01978 757588, he may still have them or parts you are missing, looks interesting keep us updated , james

Title: Re: I wonder if i'm crazy??
Post by: Chris5090 on 16 April, 2009, 11:13:31 PM
Updates will come as soon as i have them. Just have to paint the landrover first.....::)

Thanks for the offer of parts, i'll certainly bear it in mind!! I could really do with an offside rear wing though, if you know of anyone that has one lurking in a dark corner of a panel store? I have 2 nearside for some reason (something to do with bargains and low will power!)!


Title: Re: I wonder if i'm crazy??
Post by: lee69 on 17 April, 2009, 07:09:52 PM
Chris Owen (fensaddler) has restored a 1300 LX, which I'm sure you'll be able to see at events throughout the summer.

Good luck


Title: Re: I wonder if i'm crazy??
Post by: Chris5090 on 05 May, 2009, 07:06:14 PM
Right then, a bit of an update and a question all at the same time.

I've got the Engine stripped, and found quite a bit of wear in the bores, but the crank is fine. The standard bores are 84mm, and it seems that the bores are worn to approx. 84.35mm. My problem - the only set of Pistons i can find that are anything like big enough are genuine Lancia items, but are only 84.4mm (and in Italy!) So my question is this, does anyone know where i can get a set of pistons that are 84.75mm or bigger? It's that or i'll have to get another Engine out of one of the spares cars i have, but i'd rather not, it's a big job!

Title: Re: I wonder if i'm crazy??
Post by: HPEHF on 11 May, 2009, 12:51:54 PM

A few years ago with the club I attended a visit to Jim Stokes Workshops in Waterlooville in Hampshire to have a look around. They look after a D50 and B24 Pan America? for clients. They have 3 parts of the business 1 doing restorations, 2 doing engineering (building engines making spare parts) and 3 metal stictching.

They said they could provide a forge piston of any size with rings and small end bearings for approx 125 each I think and could obviously carry out any machining neccessary.

Give them a try on 0239 225 4488, have you tried Lada or Seat alternatives as they used a version of this engine??

Title: Re: I wonder if i'm crazy??
Post by: fensaddler on 11 May, 2009, 09:34:47 PM
For some reason I've completely missed this thread - probably because it was started when I was in Ireland putting 930 miles on said 1.3LX, and out of regular e-mail contact.

Chris - I've had a 'erk'  :o moment when I heard your wings were the last in Italy - I hope mine last!  I think its truer to say I have had a 2wd Delta restored, rather than restored it myself.  Over time, I've had both sills and one front wing replaced (back when you could get all these OEM in the UK) and at the same time had the rear arches done.  Suggest that if you have the skills you should do what my bodyshop man did, and cut out the radial seam in the rear arches, and weld in smooth metal, since its almost certainly begun to rot, and will continue to do so if you leave the flange there as a rust trap.  Otherwise get as much weld as you can around the join of the arch and turret, which also rots out.  Second phase replaced a couple of doors, and fixed some smaller but sometimes awkward rust spots - including the bottoms of the A pillars, which had just started to go.  Mechanically very little to do apart from maintenance, but it sounds like you have more work.

Mechanically, you could do worse than ask Neil Smith at NJS in Pershore what he knows/can do about your engine, and he may also know of panels if you ask nicely.... ;D  He knows Deltas, including the 2wd's, inside out.

Otherwise good luck.  We may be at Tatton, but will certainly be at the AGM in Shropshire, so do come and introduce yourself.

Title: Re: I wonder if i'm crazy??
Post by: jimb on 12 May, 2009, 05:15:47 AM
One of our Cape Town members is successfully racing a Beta Coupe (Leading class at moment) using VW Beetle pistons. The crowns are thick enough to be able to machine pockets for large valves and high lift cams. I think they are 85mm.

Hope this helps

Title: Re: I wonder if i'm crazy??
Post by: Kevin MacBride on 12 May, 2009, 10:17:32 AM
Oversize pistons 0.4 are still available from Fiat. Delivery towards the end of May. Bad news is the cost, 657.27 Euro plus VAT. Best I can do is about 450 plus VAT and post. Part number is 5888800.
Regarding the wings, I put up a post on our own site (Lancia Club Ireland) listing these wings plus a few other remaing panels still available from Fiat. Nobody over here was interested, glad the wings went to a good home.
Puts me in mind of a similar time back in the late 70's when Fiat were offloading Fulvia panels, we ordered a few remaining doors and other assorted panels, they lay in our stores for years and unfortunatly ended up as landfill. My advice is, if you can afford it, BUY IT NOW.
Some Lancia parts are a bit like land, they aint makin' any more of it...

Title: Re: I wonder if i'm crazy??
Post by: fensaddler on 12 May, 2009, 04:11:16 PM
This may be hugely simple minded, but the Turbo has a 1.6 version of the Twink engine?  I'm presuming some of the larger capacities also had larger bores?  Would it be possible to machine down from used pistons from a 1.8 or 2.0 Twink?

Title: Re: I wonder if i'm crazy??
Post by: Chris5090 on 19 June, 2009, 08:47:13 PM
Right, just a quick update.

Chris - Good idea, one i'd also thought of, but all the Twincam series of engines, regardless of capacity use an 84mm so thats a bit of a problem!

The next idea then, getting pistons made to order was considered and priced. 140 + vat per piston, so thats a bit of a no no at the minute!

The third idea is the one i'm going for, so there's a scrap Delta sitting in the workshop ready to lose it's engine, and i'll strip that one and see how we get on.

On a plus side though, the front suspension is all stripped, blasted and awaiting powdercoating. The wheelbearings are out and new ones ordered, the steering rack has been rebuilt and new track rod ends ordered. I just need to sort all the nuts and bolts now to put this little lot back together. I think the easiest place for these will probably be from Fiat, i just need to sit down and list all the part numbers so i can give them to the "person" at my local Fiat dealer!


Title: Re: I wonder if i'm crazy??
Post by: Kevin MacBride on 22 June, 2009, 11:34:49 AM
Be careful when ordering nuts and bolts. Fiat have recently started supplying these in packs of 5, 10, 20 or even 100 in some cases. Most dealers will not be happy stocking a large quantity of nuts and bolts whan the customer only needs one or two. You used to be able to ask Fiat to 'break' a pack of bolt, but NO MORE...