Lancia Motor Club

A few years ago I acquired this car as part of many a deal with my good friend Richard, can't recall now how it all came about and what deals were made but I know we originally intended to restore it between us but as the years passed it became my sole ownership with a deal or two for my cars going Richards way.
The car came from Colin Clamp of the consortium, it has damage front and rear apparently from an incident during transportation at some point.
It has sat idly and patiently for a good few years now, well a short time I guess in its 60 year history!

The boot and rear panel has taken a good thump, a replacement boot lid came with the car and I'd originally intended to pull the back end straight but recently I have had word from Colin that he has a used but straight rear end that I will be buying from him.

The drivers floor has some rot under the pedals but overall it doesn't seem bad considering its age...

Rear window needs to come out as the shelf under the parcel shelf has a fair amount of rot in it, most likely the window seal has been leaking or it's just due to the age again..

Those shots are all from a few years back, 2018 or 19 I'd guess. It's been sat in a corner of the workshop since whilst I finished all the other tasks and distractions.
Now the time has come to tackle this car, intended to be my last full restoration so a car I intend to take my time over and make a decent stab at.

Today I pushed it over the pit to finally have a look underneath to see what state it is all in, and to decide if I also need the used front end that Colin also has.

The drivers side floor needs a good portion replacing, rot at the aforementioned pedal area but also the rear end has been patched before and needs doing again plus the box section where the seat mount cross member sits is destroyed.

Seems the drivers side is the worst, whole length will really need replacing.

Passenger side appears to just need a small section near the subframe mount doing plus a small hole half way down, of course that could all change once work starts but the usual method of stabbing with a screwdriver didn't reveal any dull sounding crunchy pieces so first impressions aren't enough to put me off.

May be a little while longer before I make a start as I want to make a workspace inside the workshop first so the dirt and dust that will be generated can be better contained as there are other cars stored that need to be kept clean or at least not covered in grinding sparks and the usual dirt thrown up.
But I'm looking forward to getting on with it at long last  8)

Write it up for VL!!!!

I did wonder about doing another "amateur restoration" piece for the mag Tim, or asking if it would be worthy, but in reality it'll take a while before I make a start on it and I've no plans to rush so it'll be a year or two in the making. Might mention to Jack if he would like a sporadic piece from next year maybe, I need to make a workspace first so it'll be the winter before work commences most likely.

The rear has had a thump apparently in a transportation incident, something about cars not being strapped down well and the Flavia being constantly rammed by the car behind it on the low loader!
I didn't think it had been moved too far inwards but with the "new" bootlid fitted it was clear that it needed more than a little tickle!

It had also splayed the rear quarter panels outwards too, you could fit your fingers between the bootlid side and the quarter!

I'd already acquired a portapower some years back ready for this task in the hope I'd be able to get it somewhere close. Very happy with the end result, came out quite well all things considered.

Gaps are now great, all came out well.

I am getting a better rear panel to graft in so the dents don't matter, it will all be changed. I also have a new lower valance that came with the car so the damage will soon be a thing of the past.

I had a good meeting with a guy who does full time restoration on the same yard as me today, we had a good look under the car and came to a great agreement from my point of view.
He will tackle all the structural underside work which is mainly scraping off the thick underseal from the floors and then making new floor pans to replace what is there now.
The outer sills will be renewed as they have rust on the insides, central sills will also be rubbish no doubt. Basically anything that needs doing will be done to make it strong and secure, no area left untouched.
We are going to attach the bodyshell to a rollover frame to make that task easier. I've seen a couple of cars in his shed today that are part way through and an MG midget that is just completed and his work looks great.
Once that is done I will have the car back so I can do the damage repairs to the front and rear myself.
I've already taken the front and rear windscreens out this afternoon in readiness for the car going to him in a couple of weeks.
The rot under the rear window he is probably going to tackle, or maybe I will.

Bit of grot under the drivers side corner, more on the dash top than the screen aperture so will have a good look when the time comes.

Kevin,
Great work with the portapower a good result.  I remember using them back in the day when I was in the London Fire Brigade, they were incredibly versatile if you new how to use them.
Good luck with the ongoing work, keep us all posted, and if my unrestored 815 can be of any help with measurements, profiles, photos etc do let me know I’d be glad to help.
Bob

Appreciate the offer Bob, it would be handy to have one local to have a look at but they are few and far between!
I did have a look and take some snaps of Colin Clamps' cars when down at his place a week or two ago collecting the better, used rear end but you don't know what you need to look at until you need to! Was handy to see where stuff goes in the engine bay though as mine has nothing connected in place!

Went up to the unit last night to undo all the rear axle bolts so it's ready for removal to go to the welders soon, the temps in the workshop in the afternoon would have been unbearable so a 7PM to 10PM session was much more comfortable, soon enough it will be too cold to be there without wrapping up like an Eskimo I'm sure, but thankfully the Evening trip was succesful with only a couple of broken or sheared bolts.
The front subframe bolts are all loose already so the shell can soon be nade fit my A frame tilter that has erved me well on mnay Lancia and Alfa cars,  I don't envy Dan the task of scraping all the thick black underseal off so he can see what needs repairing but he seems happy to do it and insists that all areas need inspecting which fits exactly what I want doing so I'm keen to see how he gets on. OK it will be a bill for materials and labour that I wouldn't get if I did it myself (materials aside of course) but it would take me many months of spare time and Saturdays ad this way it will get done far quicker and I will get the car back whilst I still have full enthusiasm, something than can easiley wane after scores of hours scraping and welding without seeming to get far.
Dan will do all the underside work, floors and sills etc plus the areas around the rear spring mounts which should see me get a car back that is structurally sound and I can then do the rear end damage repairs in realtive comfort.
Haven't yet decided if I will spray it myself, I have all the equipment to prep and paint it and have done many in the past inc recently the Y10 and integrale for example but it again takes time and would be quicker sending to the professionals but again gains a sizeable bill...
Colour wise I really like the Grigio Newmarket which is a lovely metallic grey that Colins' Flavia convertible is painted in, not strictly available for the coupe in my model year but I think it looks very stylish and is at least a factory colour. He's kindly found the colour codes for me so I will get an aerosol or a 1/4 litre made up so I can spray some tester panels. A while away from having to order the paint of course but it's nice to dream!

Kevin,

It’s going to be a mammoth task but will be well worth it in the end. Do let me know if I or my car can be any help.

Bob

It is indeed going to be a big task Bob, but one I'm looking forward to!
For once I've taken the sensible decision to delegate some of the work rather than attempt it all myself, particularly the horrible jobs like the scaping of underseal from the floor pans!
I've been up to the unit today to get the remaining glass out, rear side windows and door glass. Took me a while to figure out the door glass removal as it wasn't obvious to me at least how they came out! The usual removable window channel guides that every other car I've seen puzzled me by being welded in place and seemingly no bolts to remove the rearmost channel either  ??? Eventually I spotted the bolt holding that guide in and the glass can then just have enough room to drop to the bottom of the door and slide out of the front guide then up and out of the door at a 45 degree angle. The opening 1/4 light had some tiny fixing screws, some of which came out and some didn't but all glass now out.
The roof lining appeared to me that it must be fixed to a wooden frame as there was a row of staples all around under the side trims so I'd hoped that peeling the glued edges away would be enough but no, the vinyl split as soon as any attempt to remove was done, and the staples were straight into the metal roof frame! Upshot is the roof lining is now scrap apart from being useful for a template for a new one to be made. A shame as although dirty and stained it was in one piece but experience has told me that it wouldn't have survived the welding ans repairs ahead without being ruined if left in place besides the fire risk with leaving it in place. Just another task to be added to the list!   

Quick update.
New outer sills are on order from Italy, they should be here in a week or so Customs delays permitting.
The car will then go to Dan to have the vast majority of the welding done, certainly all the sturctural underside and sill work. I may end up doing a few of the upper bodywork repairs, certainly the repairs to the bootlid and rear end damage.
Hopefully ina few weeks progress will start.
I aim to strip the engine down too.

Sounds like the rule is that anything sitting or standing you'll do, anything over head or flat on your back can get done the other side of the yard.  How many Alfasuds etc etc have you done?  You do know what you're missing out on!!!!

I'm less inclined nowadays to spend time underneath cars with hot tar dripping on my face, that novelty has worn off now!
Although it pains me to pay someone for what I could do myself I am convinced it will be worth it to get the car back with a few bodywork jobs left to do with the floors and sills done whilst having a tank full of enthusiasm rather than having already had that eroded, so the car will be pleasureable to work on rather than being a noose that I fitted arounf my own kneck!
This car will finally, very much finally be my last restoration, to this depth at least. I'd have loved to have done the Flaminia coupe also with that  belonging to the old guy who also had my integrale, but knew I didn't have the stamina left for both cars and the Flavia is a car I really want to do and cherish.
As for cars I've done for myself and for friends over the last 15 or so years in my spare time, there has been a few.
For myself there has been,
S1 AlfaSud Ti
S3 AlfaSud Ti
S3 Alfa Sprint
Lancia Y10
Lancia Prisma
Lancia Delta integrale
Lancia Dedra turbo
Alfa 145 modded to run 20V turbo from Fiat coupe
Alfa 155 TS
S3 AlfaSud 1.7 16V trackday car
Alfa GTV
Probably others I've forgotten about
Also did a full restoration on a Hillman Imp for my lad, weeks of welding and a full respray.
I've done a few 'Suds and Sprints for friends mostly at home on my gravel driveway before getting the comfort of a rented workshop!
There was also the Fulvia Berlina that I did a few years ago for my good friend Richard.
I've lost count of how many hours, evenings and weekends that have been sacrificed to the tasks. Holidays too were often spent having a busy week sorting cars before going back to work for a rest!
Once the Flavia is done, which will not be rushed, then I have no itch to start any other big jobs. So I aim to make this car as nice as I can then cherish it with the integrale. The Dedra I would love to keep but fell it will make way, a pair of Lancia is surely enough.

This was my first sight of the Flavia on the back of Richards trailer, back in 2016 according to the date stamp so it has been a long time coming to get started.
When bought the plan was for us to sort it out between us and share any profit after having the car a season each.
As time moved on I became the sole owner via various deals and work done etc, many a car has gone back and forth between us including the Y10 GTie for instance, and a 145 QV, both of which contributed to my sole ownership of the Flavia.

The car has now gone to Dan for him to start on the floor and sill replacement, a bumpy and dusty ride being towed behind his van but at least I've now had a ride in it albeit with no glass and a seat not bolted down, a great 1/4 mile ride!
He should be starting on it next week, says might even have it back by New Year if all goes well...

Can anyone help with a query over the jacking points please? My car currently has none and looking at the one at MITCAR last Sunday it appears that there should be a flat pad at each corner for the jack to sit on.
Can anyone give me more details as for size and what the jack location should look like, I don't think I have a jack yet but will check.

I have partially stripped the engine now, heads off and pistons out.
Oddly all 4 pistons had broken top compression rings, no real scoring of the bores so hadn't been run for long like that.
Head gaskets had been changed at some point, certainly weren't the original 60 year old ones, head bolts had copper grease smeared on them which no doubt helped them all come out OK with only a couple slightly furring up the holes through the head.
I wonder if at some point it had overheated, had the head gaskets replaced but the heat had broken the top rings so the wengine didn't run well with the lack of compression so was removed? No way of knowing I guess so the only thing to do is a full strip and rebuild.
Has anyone removed the liners on the 1.8 engine succesfully? Looks like it could open a can of worms disturbing them but rebuilding the lot and not fitting new base seals would be foolish. Do they take a lot of pulling out? I thought a tool could be rigged up like a long puller, weld a big X to act on the base with a long theaded bar pulling on a top bracket braced over the engine casing, shsould draw them out I figure...

Kevin,

I’m away on holiday this week but will be home on Friday the 20th so would be happy to send you some photos of the unrestored jacking points on my car if that would help.

Bob

That would be greatly appreciated thanks Bob, I did crwal on the grass at Burghley but a better idea on diemnsions and any other details would be handy, didn't look like a simple flat section.

I had a spare crankcase with liners still in place so I decided to have a practice on this first before making any irreparable damage.
I figured some strong box section with a hole through for some 3/4" threaded bar ought to be strong enough.
Wood pieces protect the block face and allow space for the liner to be pulled up into.
I was very surprised at how easy they came up, somewhere near to pressing a bearing race out was my thoughts on how tight they may be but with just a spanner without much strain at all it started to rise up.

The underside I need to modify, I'd assumed that once it came up an inch or so then it would be able to be lifted out but not so. My box section overhangs the block casting so a new piece will have to be made that is just wide enough to fit over the liner but not so wide that it scores the block opening while pulling the last but through. A stiff nylon piece may be the answer, something that won't harm the liner or relatively soft aluminium casing.
Dave called and offered good advice, very much appreciated as ever. Much more confident that all will be well. I've rebuilt many an engine but never a wet liner one, stories of disasters always put me off. Stick to the program, excerise due diligence and all should be well.

Dan has made a start on the welding repairs.
The sills need replacing which means most likely the centre sills will need fabricating and maybe even the inner sills.
Before then he is doing a few jobs inside the car, probably to make it slightly more stable before cutting the sides out. I've left him to do it as he sees fit, far more qualified for the job than me!
I will post a few pictures as I get them if there's an interest, certainly makes a change for me to look forward to seeing progress rather than being the one making the progress!

We had discussed how to go about making repair panels, for the floor etc, I was ok with having just flat panels or making them like the originals with the pressings.
He likes making tools for the fly press so he knocked up one to make the circular indents for this piece that goes under the rear seat next to the wheel arch.

The lower section of the arch was cut out and a new piece made to blend in nicely. The underside of this section is near the rear spring mount which needs quite a bit of repairing so it'll be nice to see how it goes.
I look forward to the bigger tasks and seeing it progress but happy to see that he intends to blend in repairs nicely

Hi Kevin,

Quick question.  Do you know how to remove the pieces of trim (s/steel) ?  that run along the top of the rear wings, visible in your last two pictures.  I know that there are long threaded studs at the rear of the trim that protrude inside the wings.  I’m wondering if once these are released, the trim lifts, moves forward and clears some sort of catch?

Cheers,  Peter

Hi Peter.
Exactly as you describe, undo the small nut on the long bolt at the rear from inside the boot then lift the rear enough to release the stud then push it forward, the stainless trim is held to the car by an angled hook type fastener so fear not about bending it from any hidden fasteners!
If I get to the car tomorrow, weather permitting as we've a lot of flodding today around here I will take a picture for you, but it is as you describe.

Front end securing clip

Many thanks Kevin.

Cheers,  Peter

A slight hiccup in procedings.
Dans' workshop which he hasn't been in for long has recently suffered badly with the floods, so much so that he's moving units rather than risk further incedents.
So before the car gets too immobile it will be back on its' wheels for the move in a few weeks, which inevitably delays the welding process somewhat.
Hopefully we will still be on track for an early 2024 return...

In the meantime I have cleaned the block halves and withdrawn the cylinder liners. Well 3 of them came out with my home made tool, some bits of box section and threaded bar.

The top block face was protected by some wood pieces rather than just metal, also to provide a recess for the liner to be pulled up into.
Once moving the base box section was swapped for another piece of wood cut into shape so it would follow the liner out through the block.

The waterway cavity and the liners need some cleaning for scale but thankfully the seats for the liners are perfect and not pitted so once all is clean and new gaskets it should be fine.

For the remaining stubborn liner I resorted to using a bit more force, an easy to regulate force in the bearing press after making sure I had a great deal of support for the block to head face.
In the end it shifted quite easily, first real pump of the press and it released its grip.
I hope to get chance to measure the lines for out of round and bore size this weekend, hopefully they will be ok as they appear to have no wear lip or scoring so fingers crossed just a new set of piston rings and a hone to the liners should suffice...

Nice work Kevin...
Clarkey

Thanks Jim. Just glad to have success at vintage Lancia engine stripping at last! Hopefully the Flaminia will follow suit for you.  8)

I've managed to get the last liner out this morning once the aluminium block was warmed slightly with the blowlamp, a very cold morning so things were reluctant to release.

Pistons and liners now measured and well within wear limits so that's a big plus, just a hone and a clean up with new piston rings will see that part fit for purpose.

For now I've soaked the liners in WD40 type oil to hopefully prevent any rust starting from finger marks or any water residue from cleaning until I start to prep it all.
What do people use on parts such as the liner face when building an engine that may subsequently sit on the shelf for a year or so until being put to use? I don't want rust to start forming on any internal parts. I have some assembly lube that is for camshafts and bearing surfaces but it makes no mention of being suitable for use in the bore area.
Or is it just a case of assembling clean then the oil used for fitting the pistons into the liners will suffice once the engine is turned over manually whilst checking the cam timing?

My 1.8 heads are looking like needing work, I feel the valve guides are outside specification but awaiting a small bore gauge to measure them before ordering a set of guides are they aren't as cheap as modern stuff!
Occurred to me that I had 2 pairs of spare heads that came with the car so maybe they would be a better proposition to use as the 1800 heads also have a fair amount of pitting but that should be able to be skimmed out, something I'd do anyway.
But on digging out the spare heads it was obvious they must be from the 2litre cars, way bigger valves and marginally bigger combustion chamber diameter. So no good.......or are they?
Has anyone used these heads on 1800 bottom ends?
Is it even possible?
I've not checked the pistons to see if they are pocketed on the 2000 cars to allow clearance for the bigger valves, obviously there is a slight difference in head face where the gasket fire ring will sit but only 88mm to 89mm so that shouldn't be an issue.
Valve lift would be the same as I'd still use the original cams.

Has anyone tried it?
Would it work?
Just the spare heads look way better, guides feel good but not yet measured...
Should flow much better and therefore produce slightly better power, intake throats for example are approximately 5mm larger than on the 1800..

Question is how do they get the 2 litres... bore bigger or stroke longer? from the pics it looks like a bigger bore so the next question is could you swap the barrels like a beetle to ger 2 litres?
Clarkey

They used a 80mm vs 74mm stroke as well as increasing the bore by 1mm to 89mm.
I don't have any 2L barrels and pistons but my 1.8s are in great condition so I will stick wih those.
In all probability I will most likely stick with stock heads, simpler all round.
Just looking at the much larger (appx 5mm) valves and throats it looked like the 2L heads would flow better.
Never going to be built as a speed machine in any case and stock is always my go to for keeping it simple, guess I have to much time on my hands thinking silly thoughts  ;D

I asked a well trusted and knowledgable guy if he knew of anyone that had used 2000 heads on the 1800 engine and he knew of two seperate cases where the heads had been used with great success, it seems a swap to use the much better condition and functional 2000 heads is my best way forward as these spare heads are in much better condition all round.

I reckon some extra torque would be in order always very useful...a trip to a rolling road when the car is up and running might prove useful as well.
Clarkey

Built a crude but effective frame tonight so I can build the engine up on my engine stand.
Not as simple as a normal in lne engine as the crankcase is in two halves, the workshop manual shows a stand bolted to one side casing which I've replicated, so should be able to follow the rebuild process in the same way.

Nice little tool arrived this week to allow me to measure accurately the valve guides for wear, only really assessed wear before by wiggling side to side then sending to the machine shop if they felt loose.
Now I can measure them accurately to closer than 0.01mm with a micrometer and the small bore gauge set.
Upshot is that the valve stem to guide clearance is within spec. Maximum wear is set at 0.12mm on the exhaust side and they are between 0.04mm to 0.06mm so well within, inlet side similarly at around half wear limit which is slightly finer tolerance wise.
I've set the heads down in the parts washer to soak now so will clean and send for skimming this week hopefully.

Well, a change of plan is in place yet again!
The heads were left in soak overnight to free up the congealed old coolant in the waterways but it was still pretty solid with old gunk, an hour or so of scraping and flushing got it somewhere near to clear but as the space above the combustion chamber is also hollowed out it was tricky to get it all out so a further soak and a blast with the pressure washer would hopefully do the trick.  Leaving anything in there would eventually cause issues as it would no doubt flow around the cooling system and block somewhere critical.
There was also the realisation that the pitting on the head face was much worse now it had been cleaned out, way more than any refacing would clean out as some pockets of corrosion were 3.5mm deep!
Time to think again.

On looking again at the 2000 heads I have it was obvious they were in much better condition and would only require a precautionary skim to ensure it being level rather than to try and get rid of any corrosion. The waterways were dusty but free of any coolant residue, just a bit of powdering from the alloy. A quick clean in the parts washer and later pressure wash would be more than enough.
Time to strip the valves out and make sure the guides and valves are within spec, which they are!

Another deciding factor came as a great but very welcome surprise, the inlet valves have an oil seal whereas the 1800 heads have no stem seals on either valves, this bonus will help greatly with blue smoke out of the exhaust.
Theory being that oil is sucked down the valve guide of the inlet valve when on the intake stroke, having a stem seal will stop that.

As can be seen below, the 2000 heads are in vastly better condition.

The other bonus is I will effectively have a big valve head conversion which should pep it up a little and let it breathe easier.
The below pictures are of the inlet valves from the 1800 and 2000 to show just how much bigger they are on the 2000, approximately 5mm bigger just looking with a tape measure.
You'll also notice a massive difference in carbon build up on the stem, another strong confirmation of the advantages of having stem seals.
I'll pressure wash the heads tomorrow at work and call the machinist who is very good and local to me so there's every hope of them getting a quick skim and back to me in time for Christmas.
As the engine gasket set won't have the valve stem seals being a 1.8 kit I had a look through my stash of unused new gaskets from various tasks and I found a new set in a bag, probably from the integrale or even Alfa twin spark engine but handily they are a perfect fit, on the guide and the right size for the valve.
The other issue I wondered about was with the bigger valves would the 2000 have pockets in the pistons to allow them to open. Amongst the spares we're a set of pistons! Very handy to have them to hand, no pockets in the crown so it confirms what I have been told, they will go on the 1.8 without issue.

So that's decided,  it will have a big valve head conversion!

Looks like Christmas has come early!
Clarkey

Yes, getting myself a few early Christmas presents Jim  ;D
The heads are away for a precautionary skim at the moment, promised to be back this coming week so thought I'd clean all the valve gear ready to rebuild over the festive period.
The rocker assemblies come apart so the inside can be cleaned and the rocker shaft checked for undue wear then lubricated before assembly.
Valve springs etc are being given a good soak in the paraffin parts washer tank to free them of years of carbon build up.
Loads of parts to clean and refresh, crankshaft oilway plugs to remove so it can all be brushed out internally.
Plenty to keep me busy whilst the car is still away being welded.

Heads are back from a light skim which is all they needed.
Engineer was very complimentary on the condition and design of the heads, being perfectly parallel unlike other heads which have to be levelled up as they sit upside down in the facing machine with the rotary cutting tool passing over the top. Some heads are apparently quite a bit off an the lower table where the head is clamped down requires a bit of work to make the head face level.
I'll lap in the valves then refit with the new stem seals then they're ready for fitting.
Still decing whether to get the engine casings vapour blasted or just clean them by hand with a soft brass rotary tool.

A task for this afternoon that I hadn't been looking forward to really, the potential for making a cock up and ruining the crankshaft whilst drilling and removing the aluminium blanking plugs meant it wasn't a task to be relished, but it needed doing so man up as they say.
The plugs give the impression that you can simply unscrew them....being relatively soft aluminium and being in place for around 60 years meant not a chance, the slot gave way long before any meaningful force could be applied.

So it's a case of centre punch the plug then drill as carefully central as you can to leave just a thin piece left which can then be punched down one side to make a slot and split the aluminium remains, being careful not to damage the internal threads of the crank.
With a bit of luck it comes out relatively easily, or it can be a stubborn old so and so.

The effort is worth it though, indeed crucial to having a long lasting rebuild.
The crud and congealed old oil and carbon in the cross drilling oilways would have meant very little if any oil pressure getting from the main journals to the big ends, not unlike tar inside there!

A tap then run through to tidy the threads, at an angle not square to the crank web just to add a degree of awkwardness, all clean and tidy ready for the new M18x1.5 plugs which will arrive in the New Year.
The different one being in the nose of the crank which is M22x1.5

My homemade wooden X frame that I use to hold cylinder heads steady was useful to perch the crank on, a very simple but very useful tool. Better than it sliding about all over the place!
I've now put the crank in the parts washer and flushed the oilways out to clear the most of it, I use Paraffin rather than a water based cleaner as being oil based any tiny residue won't hurt and it's incredibly good as shifting old oil and grease, if a little smelly!
I'll leave it to soak for a day or two just to be sure, then wash it thoroughly and blow it all out with the airline to be sure there are no slivers of aluminium left inside.

Anybody know how this fan housing comes apart?
I've released the lock tab and undone the large castellated nut as far as it will go, expecting it to release the fan from the shaft but it doesn't seem to want to come apart.
Now before I start to force things is there something I'm missing?
I can only assume that once the nut is undone it allows the fan assembly to be pulled forward off the shaft.

The exploded view from the workshop manual shows a smaller castellated nut at the end of the shaft that would sit inside the front of the fan that holds the bearings onto the shaft, it's these bearings I want to change to the assembly lasts years. Plus I need to get the threaded section repaired where the thermostat fits.
The front of the fan is one casting with the pulley, no access plugs so it really has to pull off the front? My guess is the alloy has corroded to the bearing surface so will require some effort to free it up, I'd rather know I'm not going to damage something first before forcing things.

You’re correct in your assumption that the fan assembly pulls away from the shaft.  It’s a case of being gentle, I carefully applied some leverage beneath the large ring nut and it slowly comes away from the shaft.

When you come to removing the smaller bearing at the end of the shaft, take care when knocking back the lock tab, it’s very fragile.  The bearings are easy to remove and replace and are readily available.

Good luck,  Peter

Thanks for the reply Peter.
I did manage to get it apart yesterday in fact, a good soaking in penetrating oil for a few days no doubt helped!
The small nut that holds the bearing on I used an open ended spanner pressed into oposing slots which was then clamped in my vice allwoing the housing to be rotated to undo the nut, not as intended as there is a special tool for the job or one could be fairly easily made but it did the job simply and quickly.
The bearings don't appear in bad condition but I will go to the local bearing supplier near work tomorrow and get a good quality pair from him so it will last for years to come.

A lot of the engine parts are now cleaned and ready for reassembly once the package of new parts arrives, half of the engine casing now attached to the engine stand in readiness. Oilways are thorughly cleaned now with multiple oilway plugs removed from not only the crankshaft but from the engine casing itself.

Valves have been lapped in, all now cleaned and rebuilt with new stem seals on the inlet valves, 2 Litre heads are going on remember due to the exceptionally poor 1800 ones which also have no stem seals. Heads are set aside now ready for when needed.
Pistons have been cleaned in readiness for the new rings, all the usual stuff. 

When Car SOS were doing a Flavia coupe they swapped the 1800 for 2000 iirc. And they had subframe clearance issues. Maybe because the cylinder blocks were longer and or 2000 heads bigger..??

I'm still using the 1800cc block Tim, just the 2000 heads which appear to be the same castings dimensionally outwardly.
I have been told before that the 2000 engine won't fit without clearance issues but there are known cases of people using the 1800 block with 2L heads without issue....so fingers firmly crossed!
Thanks for the thought, I'm hoping all will be well....although now I will take a further look into comapring the two... ::)

A nicebig parcel of parts arrived this week from Colin via the consortium so this has allowed me to check the piston liner height, which has highlighted just how spotless the seating area of the liner and the block need to be. With no gasket the liners were still sitting proud of the block, by quite a bit more than they should sit once a gasket is in place!
With more careful cleaning and in particular to the areas at the outer edges of the lands the liners all now go in with a reasuring change of tone when very lightly tapped with a rubber mallet, signifying that they have seated fully. That they then sat perfectly flush with the blockface, not a chink of light showing with a straight edge across the liner top.
Of course they need to sit higher than the block face so when the head is tightenned down it gives a great clamping seal, but only by 0.05mm or 2 thousandths of an inch in old money, which is precicesly the thickness of the gasket.
Should soon be able to start building the engine up, just a few things to button up still.

Hi, slightly late reply to your question about the 2000 heads. I’ve just rejoined the LMC after a ‘long rest’. I too had the same dilemma, can you fit 2000 heads to an 1800. And as you, had a really good 2000 pair verses some well worn 1800 ones. Had to remove one head to replace a broke piston ring which started the ball rolling. Anyway, to cut a long story short they went on no problem and it’s running fine. Only thing, which you may have already noticed. The centre top bolt hole isn’t recessed on the 2000 heads so you’ll need the longer bolt from the 2000. Good luck
 :)

Excellent information, thanks for confirming what I had been told so that's great to know first hand.
I must admit I hadn't noticed about the descrepancy with the bolt length needed so again that's great information.
Was it just that one bolt? I had offered the heads up to the block and it looked OK alignment wise but I missed that, when you say the top centre bolt do you mean as in that picture or from as they sit in the car, nearer the intake side?
Great to have it conformed that it will run just fine  8)

Hi, yes one bolt between the inlet ports. Only other thing to watch out for is valve to piston clearance. There is only about 1-2mm depending on resting height of the valve in the head. My valves were 0.8 - 1.00mm below the face. Since the valves are bigger than the 1800 the clearance is less so getting the valve timing accurate will be critical.

The difference is obvious now you point it out! Thanks for the heads up 😃

After weeks of delays the time has finally come for Dan to make a proper start at the welding repairs that the car has been crying out for.
We knew the sills were in need of replacing, not only the outer ones but the inner and centre ones too as we'd had a good look inside both via using the boroscope and through the missing sections!
I got new rear floor panels sections from Dave Gee a while back, new front ones Dan would fabricate along with the inner and centre sills.

The transverse member that the seats bolt to and what ties together the inner sills therefore giving a great deal of strength to the car we had hoped was ok, looked to have rust on the surface but from within the car it looked and sounded in decent shape.
The view once the floors were removed though tells a different story so it will also be cut out and a new one fabricated from scratch.
There really is no point in leaving anything to chance, so anything and everything will get looked at and replaced as necessary.

It's not all doom and gloom though, some sections are still in great shape! The car has at some point in it's fairly recent history sat outside and had water fill up the sills so no real surprise that the bottom few inches are in such a state.

Centre sill under construction.

Turning into an Epic resto this one Kev...keep those pictures coming!
Clarkey

Write it up for vl please.

Yes, it certainly will end up being an epic I can see, not that I can take much credit for anything yet! Dan is making great progress, new sections going in to make the sill area/box section strong again and rust free.
I did get a message today saying there's a lot more rot and rust up in the toe board and down around the subframe mounts, all of which will be tackled in whatever way Dan sees fit. I trust him to do the job well and I too am looking forward to seeing it pregress.

Now things are starting Tim I could draft something and send it in, see if it's to be considered worthy.

The central cross member is now fully under construction, as much as the original to be saved but if any parts are.in any way dubious Dan is removing and remaking, exactly the way I would wish it so happy to leave him to do as he decides fit.

Refer back to the previous page and you'll see this section has the seat mounts but also provides a lot of torsional rigidity to the floor and body shell in general.
Love that he insists on making the dimples in pieces that nobody will really ever see. I know they look smaller than the ones on the original remaining section, but again look back at the original, that's how they were!

Car is now on the rollover frame so Dan is starting to make headway on the underside, so much easier and nicer to work than way than laid underneath.
A couple of pics that he sent me today of the area around the drivers rear footwell and the rear spring hanger mount which obviously needs to be solid!
The new looking repair piece above the spring hanger studs I believe is the part he repaired before from inside the car.
I'm liking that he's recreating the round and long impressions in the repair sections, should make it look more like it hasn't been got at ...the red oxide painted floor pans came from Dave Gee last year, really has saved a lot of time so thanks again Dave  8)
I'm actually going up to Dan's place near Market Rasen tomorrow to have a look, Dan is actually wondering if we are getting in a bit deep, or more than he's warning me of the fact and trying to keep my eyes open to what's going on and how much more work is needed than first thought, is it ever less? I'm hoping that it doesn't get too out of hand, I had hoped to have enough budget left to pay for a pro paint job but that may have to change. I've sprayed a few cars now, my own and for other people so it's not a concern if that ends up being the case cost wise, but it will mean more time and effort on my part.

Had a positive meeting with Dan yesterday afternoon, think he'd been a bit worried about how much extra work was being unearthed and the estimate going skyward!
I've been here before so knew it was only going to be that way, they're never better overall than you think, so I think he was relieved that I'm happy for him to continue in the way he is going as in trying his best to make repair sections with the pressings as similar to original as he can. This all takes time of course, it would be much simpler and quicker to weld in flat repair pieces which if I was doing it then that would most likely have been the case, the extra hours needed to make a more original looking panel I'm happy to accept will inevitably cost me more but will end up in a better finished product.
Another potentially great bit of news is that he has a guy who sometimes works for him or in his unit and they are talking of being able to spray the car too, other guy is a retired bodyshop man and he's seen the Flavia a few times at Dan's place and wants to be involved as he's never worked on one before, always nice if someone wants to do a job rather than having to do the job.
If the paint thing happens it will save me a load of work, I was thinking that I may have to use all my spare time/weekends travelling to my unit to do it myself, once I'd constructed a building to do it in of course!

Blimey Kevin !

No one could ever question your commitment, good for you, it looks like things are coming along nicely, just stick with it and you will have a wonderful car at the end as all of us old serial Flavia owners know.

Bo

I'm actually enjoying having someone else do the majority of the work! So no big commitment needed from me yet, apart from prising my walet open!
I may though have jumped the gun a bit re the paint guy friend of Dan's, seems he's not fully on board with taking the task on whih I can't exactly blame him as he is now retired. Means I may yet be painting the car myself. Which I won't mind to be honest, it'd be nice to have some involvement and the painting stage I do enjoy unlike the welding stage!
Colour choice I had narrowed down to around 6 of the available for the time so I went to my local suppliers armed with the list and the hope of buying a 1/4 litre of each and doing test spray so I can see what they look like, unfortuneatly they only have the formula for one shade now, Grigio York. A few enquiries and they found a code for Tor de Valle but no formula, another call to a PPG agent armed with the code also drew a blank, it seems the ingredients list needed to blend the paint is no longer available. I would be grateful if anyone has access to the data maybe?

The front toe board has been made and fitted, this is the area under your feet when driving, under the pedals.
This area also encompasses the reinforcement that the subframe bolts to, a fair proportion of which has been replaced.
Dan asked if I mind if all the circular indents are recreated or not, I have decided not. It would be time consuming (expensive) to make a tool just to do the pressings as they are different to the ones in the rear floor, as both sides will ultimately be replaced it will look symmetrical so I'm more than happy with the outcome.

Whilst the welding is still ongoing, the whole floor on the passenger side is being cut out and all around the toe board like the drivers side so it's all fresh and rust free I've been busy in my shed building the engine up.
All has been going ok with the new piston rings etc and the heads went on without issue so it came to the task of doing the camshaft timing which seemed like quite a complicated task so I wasn't looking forward to it.
The cams have a series of holes in them with a similar setup in the pulleys, but a different number in the pulley so that multiple adjustments can be made to get the timing right.

As there are no timings marks or keyways as such it's quite an odd process to time the camshafts.
First off the inlet tappet for cylinders 1 and 2 need setting to 1.03mm. The cams are then rotated until the tappet clearance goes down to 0.03mm then the cam is in the right position. With the crankshaft set to the timing mark the chain and pulleys can go on.
Now this is where it gets tricky.
There is a small pin that goes through the pulley and locates in one of the holes in the camshaft, then being offset with each other means at least one will line up.
The tricky bit comes from keeping chain tension enough so that when it is all assembled that everything lines up still, so that when the crankshaft hits the mark the aforementioned tappets are at the right clearance meaning the cam timing is right.
One camshaft lined up perfectly but the left side cam was always a shade out whatever I did, always a flywheel tooth out whatever combination I tried.
It took a while to dawn on me that you need to rotate the pulley around the chain another tooth so that it aligns a different hole set in the cam. After a few trial and errors I hit on the right combination and now both are perfectly timed.
Quite an elaborate and probably over complicated way of doing things but it's not nearly as bad as I feared.
The new chain is getting a good coating in build lube, a sticky substance that prevents rust build up and provides good lubrication until the oil fully circulates.

I was going to leave the front timing cover off so I could the chain as near to starting as possible but on looking closer there is an oil hole from the main crankcase into the housing so once oil is in the sump it will flow into the cavity to around the level of the chain run at the bottom so will coat it all well, so I have coated it in the Lucas engine build lube for now and fitted the replacement cover that came from Dave Gee to replace mt cracked one, thanks again Dave for saving the day.  8)

All the cooling system connections, inlet manifold plus anything else that needed a good clean then went into the parts washer to clean off the years of baked on oil and grime.

This part though looks like it may be a drain for the coolant but I can't figure out how. Does the long tube come off or twist somehow? I need to get the banjo bolt out so will apply some gentle heat, but nothing flows down the longer pipe so I'm not sure how it works or what it's for ...

The part directly opposite the longer pipe is just a circular hole, which again doesn't go anywhere or allow liquids through.
Any ideas?

Comparing it to a Flaminia, is the long pipe just the handle of a drain tap? I'm thinking that rotating the long pipe might open a passageway for water to flow out the hole in the bottom. Flaminia ones are prone to seizing solid.

Frank is right it is a drain tap...An Appia one is very similar and usually seized as well. You will turn the long pipe either left or right to open or shut the drain tap, the water will come out the bottom. Some Lancias have a rubber pipe fitted on the bottom to take the water away from the engine usually long gone by now.
Clarkey

Thanks both for the replies, Dave actually called tonight saying the same thing, and giving me another good pointer re the timing tensioner.
It seems I was looking at it the wrong way assuming the long pipe was a drain tube rather than what it actually is, the drain handle.
I will attempt to get it moving tomorrow.
The banjo bolt that is seized I fear may well be stubborn enogh to ruin the thread in the housing or its' own thread, or both on removal so time will tell.

.its the same as on my Fulvia 2c, which at one time worked, but has been seized for years, so I just pull off the pipe to the bottom of the radiator to drain the system.
Much easier if it does work though!
Brian
8227 8)

Hopefully I will be able to get it working Brian.
Managed to get a bit of time on it at work tonight before leaving, got the banjo bolt out but not yet sure if the threads will survive as it was full of crud but managed to get it cleared out down to the brass inards of the valve.
Deconstructing the handle as per Daves instruction by removing the little retaining pins was easier than I thought although the lower one is slightly bent and burred but I'm sure it will all come apart when I get a few more minutes at it.

Got the tap all apart today, makes sense how it works now and I can see the tapered brass pieces that Dave mentioned.
A quarter turn opens the valve allowing water to the portion where the banjo bolt fitting is.
Now what I'm wondering is where does the pipe that the bano bolt holds on send water too? Looks like a heater sized fitting but is it purely a water drain? I had expected the drain part to just open water to the elements through the base somehow not send water to that outlet.

 Kevin
    It fits to a pipe at the bottom of the radiator. The hose is about 150mm long, and 16mm id.
Best wishes
Dave

A picture of the disassembled parts would be interesting. It seems like you are saying the tap can be turned to either the aluminium housing or the pipe on the banjo connector. Does it allow you to drain the block or the radiator selectively?

Thnaks Dave, that makes sense. When I got the car the engine was in the engine bay, but only sat on wood so nothing was connected and parts like the radiator were inside the car! Makes it hard to know where things go sometimes  ???

I'll take some pics over he weekend Frank. I had assumed from the manuals' description of it being a "water drain" that it would be a means of drainging the system. From the few minutes I got to look at it all disassembled it appears to have two functions, a 1/4 turn of the handle opens up a passegeway from the main housing through to the banjo fitting. That I know happens. What I also suspect, but have yet to confirm, is that maybe the handle can be pressed down against the spring which opens up the tapered brass section which would allow the coolant to flow out, although I'm more than happy to be proved wrong on this.
I'll get a look at it over the weekend and give the brass a clean up so it turns smoothly.

 
  Its just an on/off drain

  Dave

It's obvious when you look properly Dave isn't it! Doh  ::)
Had another look this morning at work and it's clear how it works, just a drain as Dave says. Although it does also connect the banjo and housing, to drain both sections!
I'll explain later, if anyone wants to see a fool grovel!

Ok, this is the tap disassembled. The brass section has a taper which under spring pressure from above keeps a watertight seal against the tapered brass insert within the alloy housing.
You can see here the hole goes right through the brass taper.

With it in the housing and turned to the off position it blocks off both from the banjo section and the main housing.

Turn the tap handle a 1/4 turn and it aligns the hole to connect the hole straight through from the banjo to the main housing.

That was what confused me, easily done sometimes!
I thought it was a kind of tap to allow water to flow from the engine to the heater perhaps, but then it was pointed out that the banjo connection goes to the radiator.
I'd assumed also that the way to drain the system would require the tap to be pushed down to release the taper and let coolant flow.
Of course I'd missed the fact that the brass tapered insert doesn't just have a hole through it but that is more of a T junction so as the holes lign up the coolant simply flows through the hole in the bottom, no taper seal breaking needed, it allows for the radiator to drain as well as directly from a low point in the engine as one.
It has struck me though that the tiny spring that keeps the tapers together is vital, if that were to brake it could allow the handle to drop down a fraction and maybe leak?

I've been meaning to spray the tappet covers for some time so they would be ready to fit, of course it never happened! So this afternoon with the dry and sunny predicted weather I went to the unit to set to and get them done.
All the old paint and corrosion came off ok, rubbed down and etch primed then some 2 pack satin black that I had to hand was mixed up and sprayed on. It's dulled down a bit since this picture now it's dried. I know they should really be a crackle finish but it's not going to be a concourse car by any means so making it look presentable is good enough.

While I planned to mix up the satin black I also did another job I'd wanted to get done since the strip down last year, the metal fuel filler pipe that snakes down from the filler in the car right through the boot and under the car where it joins the tank underneath the boot floor.
It had some rust on it and a fair amount of old underseal which has saved it from rusting out completely.
A good clean off with the knotted wheel which digs the rust out well but if things are too weak it can make holes. Thankfully it was solid under the crud and rust stains.
A treatment with some Kurust then etched and 4 god coats of the satin black should protect the outside enough, it's not like the car will see salty roads again!

Looks nice Kevin.
Clarkey

The flywheel had some scoring in the face where in a previous life it had suffered a worn clutch no doubt being driven on the rivets, so I sent it to my local guy who refaces heads etc.
Got it back this morning and pleased I had it done, there was also 3 high spots on the face as well as the circular scoring so no doubt there would have been clutch drag and judder if I'd just fitted it as is with a new clutch.
With this style of flywheel where the plate sits on a different level to the area where the cover bolts to it is vital to retain the step or you will lose clamping force on the new clutch so he has also removed the 2 clutch alignment pegs and taken the mount area down too by a few thou to regain the step.

Still awaiting the body shell to be finished with the welding, latest update puts it at a while away yet, hopefully it will be completed before the end of the summer so I can get it back before the wet weather returns..


It's much easier this getting someone else to do the bulk of the work, but way more harmful to your pocket and you are at the mercy of their time schedule! But at least it means I haven't run out of enthusiasm for the project yet! Often happens after months of grimy horrible tasks that you get so fed up of it that it becomes a chore, so at least that stage hasn't hit just yet....

Good to hear to still have a few gallons left in your tank! Doing a great job and you’ll have a lovely car at the end. 🥳🥳