Lancia Motor Club

Model Technical and Interest => Flaminia => Topic started by: lancianut666 on 14 May, 2023, 06:57:17 PM



Title: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 14 May, 2023, 06:57:17 PM
Hi all
 My mate Terry is a nuisance. He wanted to borrow my engine crane to repot a monkey puzzle tree so I invited him over to see what was involved in assembling and using the engine crane. Next thing I knew there was a 2.5 litre V6 engine sat on a little stool. Terry is now wondering if the engine crane (disassembled ) will fit in his girlfriend's car.
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 14 May, 2023, 06:58:26 PM
engine views


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 14 May, 2023, 06:59:26 PM
and the hole that is left


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 21 May, 2023, 09:40:29 PM
The engine was known to have problems with the heads being stuck. The method i tried was to suspend the engine from the exhaust manifold and the waterways of the head on the inlet side. With the head under tension some judicious clouts with a rubber mallet got the head to move about 3mm. I will need to change the fixing points on the head as it appears to be stuck in one corner.


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: Kevinlincs on 22 May, 2023, 08:17:13 PM
Great to see you've managed to at least get it moving Jim, now it's moved a bit I'm sure you'll be succesful
Well done on making progress  8)


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: chriswgawne on 23 May, 2023, 10:48:05 AM
Once you have got it moving you are on the home straight! Well done.
Chris


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: Mitka on 25 May, 2023, 10:05:54 PM
I will be watching the resto with excitement! Im to busy with my Berlina to have gotten that one even though I was tempted!


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 28 May, 2023, 11:08:46 AM
Hi all
Had a bit of time yesterday so tried a new method on the second head using a rocker mount (see picture) The engine and stand are suspended so all of the weight is pulling on the head. I put some engine oil down the studs and will leave it to ferment for a couple of days and see how it is looking after a couple of wallops with the rubber mallet. The other head will come up about 5mm now but only at one end so I will try method B if it proves to be successful. Failing this I think a lifting plate will work as it can be bolted across all the rocker mounts.
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 28 May, 2023, 11:12:47 AM
Hi all
Tried to fit a spare battery to see what electrics were on the fritz or not but none of my spare batteries (three of them) would fit. Has anyone recently replaced a battery in a coupe and do they have the make and model? They are all too deep and will not drop down onto the battery ledge.
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: Richard Fridd on 28 May, 2023, 12:53:12 PM
Sterling head work.
 Battery in my PF.

 Richard


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 29 May, 2023, 04:45:56 PM
Thanks for the battery info will track one down...Had another look at the cylinder heads and I think a bit more progress has been made on the passenger side head as the pictures show...I thought is was going to come off but it seems to be stuck again but all four corners are off the block now. The head that was suspended is well stuck so we will give it a couple of days more.
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 30 May, 2023, 06:12:11 PM
Hi all
Terry insisted we had another go today so we re-hung the cylinder head from the rocker shafts and managed to loosen all four corners see pic
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 30 May, 2023, 06:17:15 PM
When you look at some of the engineering and machining on this engine you can see where all the money was going.


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 30 May, 2023, 06:19:40 PM
Oops wrong picture...the feeler gauge is 25 thou and WD40 and engine oil were sprayed down the end of the studs with only one not allowing the lubricant to go into the stud holes in the head


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 30 May, 2023, 06:28:11 PM
finally


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 31 May, 2023, 06:52:56 PM
Hi all
Success today in getting one of the heads off. The problem was a couple of the studs being badly corroded to the head and causing the head to only really move at one end. To get round this engine oil was trickled down the studs and this highlighted that the stud nearest to the exhaust of cylinder no 1 was causing us a problem. The solution was to first get the head parallel to the block and by keeping the head under tension by the rope fit a nut to the stud and tap it till I could see it had move down. The next thing to do was slacken off the nuts on the studs at the far end of the head a few turns and give the exhaust manifold a clout, this moved the head up at that end so returning to the no 1 cylinder end some more careful tapping on the stud with the nut on saw that end now go up. This was repeated till the head was off. The stud was very tight and it might be advisable to find a better way of dissolving the corrosion sticking the studs to the head as once revealed it was clear that several of the studs were corroded quite badly.
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 31 May, 2023, 06:57:34 PM
more pics


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 31 May, 2023, 06:58:40 PM
The green is most likely from the copper in the head gasket


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: Kevinlincs on 31 May, 2023, 07:17:28 PM
Very impressed you've managed to get it off Jim, and shows it has been worth the effort by the looks of the contained corrosion.  8)


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 31 May, 2023, 07:29:06 PM
I think the other head will be a bit trickier as I oiled all the studs before I left tonight and a fair few were not taking the oil down so will be dry and stuck together when I have a go at removing it. I will try the ATF and kerosene? mix as well.


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 31 May, 2023, 08:08:53 PM
Acetone not kerosene


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: frankxhv773t on 01 June, 2023, 09:21:33 AM
For a job like that I'd go straight to ATF/acetone mix. Anything else is just wasting time.


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 20 July, 2023, 04:22:51 PM
It is still stuck, when I get time I will make a plate to ease it off
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 17 August, 2023, 09:52:46 PM
Plate making time has arrived...


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 23 August, 2023, 06:23:32 AM
Hi all.
At last a bit of time to sort this engine out and move it out of the way of the Appia. I made a visit to my local steel stockists and got them to cut a piece of 5mm steel the size of the head gasket for a tenner. The next bit involved clamping the gasket to the plate and marking the position of the cylinder head studs. I will then have to carefully centre punch each of these holes and drill and tap them. see pictures
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 23 August, 2023, 06:24:39 AM
better view of the first hole I have centre punched.


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 04 October, 2023, 08:16:52 PM
Too busy to do any work on this...Sorry...It is nice to sit in though and look at that lovely dashboard
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: Mitka on 05 October, 2023, 08:08:12 PM
So Nice to see progress on this one!:)


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 12 November, 2023, 10:09:57 PM
House move done and I have managed to cut a path through all the debris so I can get to the engine and hopefully next week will bring some progress.
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: Mitka on 13 November, 2023, 09:12:46 PM
Will be sweet to hear that engine run again! House move and car build! Brave man


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 11 January, 2024, 12:37:14 PM
Funny how time flies...anyway the Y10 and the Appia S2 have had some attention so it is the Flaminia's turn. I will start drilling the plate today to get the tapped holes done and then get my head round how I can attach it without damaging the head. My attempts on the Appia a few years ago were very frustrating but did demonstrate the power of the screw thread in removing stubborn parts (and braking spring hanger 'U' bolts.
Clarkey
ps the reason I have more time is all the joinery nonsense is nearly done


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 12 January, 2024, 06:51:02 AM
Hi all
managed a couple of hours on the head lifting plate and the first bit is done.
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: DavidG on 12 January, 2024, 10:39:06 AM
Will be good to see how this turns out. I have had some success removing studs with the cylinder head in place. I will post on this shortly.


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 17 January, 2024, 07:23:25 PM
Hi all
Part two of the plan is to drill through the plate and fasten it to the head using the fixing studs for the rocker pillars studs. First part was to screw a nut onto all the head studs to give the bolts coming through the lifter plate a location.
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 17 January, 2024, 07:25:07 PM
Next a dollop of paint on the nuts on the rocker pillar mounting studs


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 17 January, 2024, 07:27:52 PM
Then position the plate on the head using the bolts sitting in the nuts on the head studs making sure contact is made between the painted nuts and the plate.


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 17 January, 2024, 07:30:11 PM
Then check the result...Hmmmm......not as expected, will have another go tomorrow.
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 17 January, 2024, 07:39:04 PM
Hopefully with a bit of measuring of the distances between the head studs and the pillar mount studs I can get the holes drilled tomorrow. I am gambling on the pillar studs being strong enough but my experiences with the plate I made for the Appia engine makes me think I will have to do a belt and braces job with some extra attachments to head possibly using the exhaust manifold mounting studs.
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 21 January, 2024, 02:45:02 PM
Decided to push through from the bottom on a spare head I have some 10mm threaded bars to support a sheet of cardboard with holes cut in it to match the cylinder head gasket. The rocker mount studs can then be made to produce an indent in the cardboard in the right place. The cardboard can be transferred to the plate located by the bolts previously fitted and the holes can be drilled through cardboard and the plate to let the rocker mount studs to poke through to enable the nuts to be put on and tightened up against the rocker mounts. Will have a go at this tomorrow...


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 22 January, 2024, 06:28:18 PM
Hi all
Good news is the plate is finished but there is some not so good news. When I picked up the plate I was undecided about 5mm or 10mm plate and could not recall what I had used for the Appia plate so I have found that 5mm plate is not strong enough and the power of the screw threads bent it quite easily. The result of this was that the bolts screwing against the problematic studs nearest to the exhaust manifold  instead of pushing down properly diverted some of the screwing force into bending the plate. How ever the good news is that the head has moved on the inlet side about 7-8mm and I am sure with a bit more work it will be off.
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 23 January, 2024, 09:38:50 AM
Hi all
Another problem that I will have is that if I use 10mm plate there will not be enough thread of the rocker mounting studs sticking through to get a nut on. I might be able to split the mounts to drop the height enough and pack up the plate so it does not foul the rocker cover studs. I will have to use 10mm plate and I will go to 10mm bolts, it might be possible to modify the Appia one as that is 10mm. I think welding a nut on the head studs and removing the stud as well might be the end game but I was hoping to have a reusable tool rather than shock and awe assault every time a head came off. Hmmm...
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: DavidG on 23 January, 2024, 10:36:12 AM
I think this is very encouraging!

Using a combination of double nut method (the fine pitch of the threads means these can really be tightened up and the nut faces offset if you use a 12 point socket), impact wrench, welding and a combination of all 3 (plus heat)in the worst cases , I have removed all but 4 of the studs on one head. Applying a long lever to a more stubborn one has caused it to shear (through the upper threaded section fortunately). I am very frustrated, to say the least, but the fact that you are having success has spurred me on - I will make a plate next.

No problem with the rocker mount studs/threads doing this? I have removed all of mine to get better access, so I will probably use some bolts to hold the plate down.


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: SanRemo78 on 23 January, 2024, 10:51:15 AM
Can you flatten the plate so it will fit again and then weld some right angle steel to it? That ought to significantly increase it's strength.


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 23 January, 2024, 11:11:13 PM
Hi all
Made a little bit of progress today but as I feared the stress on the rocker mount studs has stripped some of the threads but I have a spare head for spares so no problem. The plate is now very twisted so I will make a 10mm one tomorrow. I have managed by getting the head to rock on the studs and using plastic wedges tapped between the head and block to get the exhaust manifold studs loosened except for a couple and there is now a gap (only a couple of mm) on the exhaust side, it seems to be stuck at one corner. I have written off the existing head studs. As mentioned previously I can take off the top of the rocker pillars and pack up the new plate to clear the rocker cover studs. I think the studs stripped because the plate bent in line with them so hopefully the 10mm plate will prove more resilient.
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 23 January, 2024, 11:19:51 PM
I don't think the 5mm plate is up to it. A 10mm plate with a few less bolts will only take a couple of hours to make, possible one at each corner with 4 down the exhaust side and a couple on the inlet side and centre.
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 24 January, 2024, 06:50:16 PM
Hi all
Bit more done today, new plate just about finished.
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: Richard Fridd on 24 January, 2024, 07:31:54 PM
Just the threat of that plate should do the trick. It's amazing the amount of friction some gum can produce.

  Richard


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: Kevinlincs on 24 January, 2024, 09:34:23 PM
I saw something today with an old seized engine and they used coca cola to free it up...


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 25 January, 2024, 06:20:32 PM
Hi Kevin
I have heard of using coke to clean tarnished metal and I had some success with vinegar to clean up a stripped thread on a thermostat housing so if you could submerse the engine in coke it would definitely get rid of some of the corrosion.
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 25 January, 2024, 06:34:19 PM
Hi all
Definite progress today as we have a nice gap between the head and the block all the way around and the corner that was stuck has lifted. The new plate has not deformed like the other one but it has bent some of the rocker mount studs. The good news the 8mm bolts screwed down on the exhaust side tighten up now and don't just bend the plate. This means the plate will be left under tension overnight and now it is nearly parallel with the block I am confident it will surrender soon.
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: Kevinlincs on 25 January, 2024, 08:11:42 PM
10/10 for perseverance, and a well deserved result seems around the corner 8)


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: DavidG on 26 January, 2024, 11:06:44 AM
Superb!

Very interested to see photos of your studs and the holes in the head when it does come off. Would like to see how it compares to mine.

No further damage to the rocker saddle studs?


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 26 January, 2024, 12:09:41 PM
Hi Dave
I'm afraid I got carried away and failed to notice the rocker mount studs had been bent but no more stripping...I will investigate today. I think some physical fastening of the plate that seems unbendable to the exhaust manifold studs is needed to keep the plate horizontal and pull evenly. It might be worth (if I was doing this every day) to get the plate cut with tags on that side and get the steel supplier to bend it at 90 degrees and drill the holes for the exhaust manifold studs.
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 26 January, 2024, 05:30:22 PM
Hi all
More progress today but still not lift off. With the use of plastic wedges and a 2lb club hammer via some sturdy timber we have edged the head further up off the very corroded studs. I only had a couple of hours of playtime today so I left the head to soak with WD40 and engine oil. Very satisfied with the progress as the head is pretty square to the block and with judicious tightening of the plate bolts and a few love taps with the club hammer via a piece of 4 x 2 timber has moved it up about 5-6mm. The only studs not taking oil down are the exhaust side ones just like the other head but now I can access them from below I trust to WD40 and the oil. The rocker mount studs have been in a bit of a battle and will need a make over with a die or replaced from the spare head also a couple of rocker cover studs have took a hit.
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: frankxhv773t on 27 January, 2024, 10:29:21 AM
Have you tried the 50/50 mix of ATF and cellulose thinners? It significantly out performed anything commercially available, including WD40, in a magazine test some years ago and I find it very effective.


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: Richard Fridd on 27 January, 2024, 12:28:01 PM
Heat did the trick on my recent stubborn stud, perhaps softened what turned out to be to congealed gum as much as corrosion. Won't be long now.

  Richard


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 28 January, 2024, 11:00:29 AM
Hi all.
I put some of the mixture you mentioned Frank down the tops of all the studs but the exhaust side ones have not pulled any lubricant down till now. Had a couple of hours tinkering yesterday and was very pleased with the progress. I removed the plate to look at the rocker mount threads and they were fine but clogged up with the obviously weaker steel of the nuts I had used so I cleaned them up and replaced the plate using the original nuts but without the big spacer nuts. This meant the plate would drop closer to the head and be more secure as we got the nuts well down the stud (see pics) The screwing in of the bolts produced a nice gap and it was even all round the block and the next issue will be the tops of the head studs will disappear inside the head. I am thinking of using a short length of 10mm rod to push down on the studs under the 8mm bolts through the plate so as not to damage the head. It feels as if the head is going to fight all the way against the plate and bolts so a couple of days will probably see it done.
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 30 January, 2024, 08:29:44 AM
Hi all
Had a slow and frustrating day yesterday as the head has moved up nicely but has stuck on the front right corner again, at least you can see into the bores now and it looks reasonable in there.
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 30 January, 2024, 08:34:16 AM
Sorry about the upside down picture ?


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: Mitka on 31 January, 2024, 03:56:01 PM
For next time.. it could work getting some brake line, cut some teeth into it and drill out the dirt around the studs. https://youtu.be/Zu5JLv0GErM?si=6JZ_bXR_Mu5_ud5u see 22.00


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: DavidG on 31 January, 2024, 06:22:37 PM
I have been looking for a piece of tube for exactly this purpose but until now not found anything - probably because I had been searching for 10mm ID.

Having watched this video I had another look but for 11mm OD and -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/sourcing-map-Stainless-Thickness-Length/dp/B09BQB9WW4?th=1

The holes for the studs are smaller than 11mm, and the studs rarely sit in the centre of the holes, so I will probably need to skim a little off the outside, but worth a go.

Thanks Mitka!


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 31 January, 2024, 07:51:26 PM
Hi all
Flaminia head 1 Slow but rough 0
We have reached an impasse as the immovable object just goes up one end and down the other and vice versa to make things worse it is ripping the threads out of the nuts fastened to the rocker mount studs usually with a loud bang. The plan is to make some additional brackets and bolt these to the plate and the exhaust manifold studs. I'll use the 5mm plate from failed previous attempt. The main problem seems to be you can't wack the head direct with the club hammer and as it is on the engine stand it wobbles around as you wack it whilst hanging on to it and holding a piece of wood between the head and the club hammer.
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: Kevinlincs on 31 January, 2024, 08:52:22 PM
Now you've got a decent gap maybe you could use some hardwood wedges to help lift the head up?
Some hardwood placed on the block face and head face then another thiny tapered wedge piece could be hammered in between to put a sperating force in the space between head and block, the hardwood protecting the faces from damage as they wouldn't actually be getting anything more than a helping hand tring to lift and seperate.
It would help take all the strain off  the plate and could be used in multiple positions to gradually and carefully prise the two apart in a controlled manor..


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: Dave Gee on 01 February, 2024, 09:09:59 AM
 
 I would use a saw to cut all the studs, then drift the studs out of the head. To aid removal, weld the nuts to the top of the studs in the block. The heat from welding would then aid in their removal.
 Dave Gee


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: DavidG on 01 February, 2024, 11:12:15 AM
I have been looking for a piece of tube for exactly this purpose but until now not found anything - probably because I had been searching for 10mm ID.

Having watched this video I had another look but for 11mm OD and -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/sourcing-map-Stainless-Thickness-Length/dp/B09BQB9WW4?th=1

The holes for the studs are smaller than 11mm, and the studs rarely sit in the centre of the holes, so I will probably need to skim a little off the outside, but worth a go.

Thanks Mitka!

Following on from that I had a look through my scrap box and found a piece of stainless tube with a 10.1mm (ish) ID and what looks like 1/2" OD. No idea what grade but thought I would have a go at turning the outside down. It turned out to be not nearly as hard as I thought and I have ended up with a 0.3mm wall. I will give it a go later.



Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: DavidG on 01 February, 2024, 02:20:03 PM
Well that seems to work!

I'll add more detail on my own thread, so as not to clog up yours Clarkey.


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 02 February, 2024, 05:14:16 PM
Hi all
Got the brackets fitted and made a good bit of slow but steady progress lifting the head so fingers crossed!
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 03 February, 2024, 11:15:39 PM
Left overnight all tight next day had slackened off so retightened and had slackened off later that same day...I might need some longer bolts.
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 05 February, 2024, 05:26:18 PM
Still tightening up and inching the head off.


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 10 February, 2024, 12:14:33 PM
Update
Managed to get the head up about two inches and then it just locked up and started bending the bolts as they were screwed down. I tried the wooden wedges but the head and block have sharp edges and just shave off the wedges. I have tried to see which of the studs are the stuck the worst by filling the gap above the stud with the acetone/auto transmission oil mix, this showed 2 on the exhaust side are clear around the stud as the fluid eventually ran through. The other 4 did not let any fluid through so I left them overnight and will go down today and have a look see. I am tempted to use some more active chemicals like coca cola, vinegar or possibly a bit of electrolysis to see if I can get the gunk out. I was talking to my mate Terry about how to prevent this in the future and we discussed greasing the shafts and such like but I was reminded of some wise words from the late Don Cross who said that if you want to stop corrosion on aluminium engines use stainless steel bolts and studs so this might be an avenue to explore as I have been quoted 130 plus vat plus duty plus postage for ordinary steel ones.
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancialulu on 10 February, 2024, 01:52:42 PM
Update
Managed to get the head up about two inches and then it just locked up and started bending the bolts as they were screwed down. I tried the wooden wedges but the head and block have sharp edges and just shave off the wedges. I have tried to see which of the studs are the stuck the worst by filling the gap above the stud with the acetone/auto transmission oil mix, this showed 2 on the exhaust side are clear around the stud as the fluid eventually ran through. The other 4 did not let any fluid through so I left them overnight and will go down today and have a look see. I am tempted to use some more active chemicals like coca cola, vinegar or possibly a bit of electrolysis to see if I can get the gunk out. I was talking to my mate Terry about how to prevent this in the future and we discussed greasing the shafts and such like but I was reminded of some wise words from the late Don Cross who said that if you want to stop corrosion on aluminium engines use stainless steel bolts and studs so this might be an avenue to explore as I have been quoted 130 plus vat plus duty plus postage for ordinary steel ones.
Clarkey
Stainless studs may stretch???


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: SanRemo78 on 10 February, 2024, 02:02:03 PM
Maybe sleeve the head with a stainless thin wall tube?

Stainless bolts won't have the same tensile strength either.

Guy


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 10 February, 2024, 02:44:09 PM
Thanks for the info on the stainless steel.
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: HBG on 11 February, 2024, 05:32:27 PM
I'd suggest if using the timber wedge method that you need two long wedges of equal gradient driving towards each other. They should overlapped and will bear flat on the block and head, no catching of the edges. As the wedges pass over each other they will provide tremendous separating force. I used to use this method to preload some large section structural steelwork under masonry. You'll be able to use a big hammer!


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: SanRemo78 on 11 February, 2024, 06:23:51 PM
Or four pieces of wood with the wedged ones in the middle of the sandwich? As wide as possible? Maybe two people acting in unison with a couple of lump hammers... You'll get it in the end!


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: frankxhv773t on 12 February, 2024, 02:28:42 PM
The system of two wedges working together in opposite directions is called a "folding wedge". Using a shim between the wooden wedges and the metal, as suggested by SanRemo78, would be good practice.


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 13 February, 2024, 05:31:56 PM
Hi all
Went back to basics and levelled up the plate on the top of the head, cleaned the exposed parts of the studs of 60+ years goop and had another go with screwing the bolts down to release the head after I had dropped back down onto the block with a block of wood and a club hammer. Straight away it felt different and as you can see from the pictures the head is much further up than before and we have ran out of bolt thread apart from 'sticky corner where the bolt has bent. So tomorrow's is clean up all the exposed parts of the studs, clean the debris off the threaded portion after pushing the head back down, get some spacers ready to fit down the stud holes to compensate for the short length of the bolts and we will see....
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 14 February, 2024, 05:59:47 PM
Hi all
Good news the head is off as mentioned yesterday a quick clean of the studs visible between the head and block a bit of grease, tap the head down to the block and screw in the bolts, when the bolts are flush with the plate retract a few and drop into the stud hole a length of 10mm threaded bar. resuming the screwing soon had the threaded portion of the studs visible under the head so we knew it was close to coming off. With nearly all the studs clear of the head a tap with an aluminium mallet and it was off.
On reflection the key points to note was the necessity of keeping the plate parallel and firmly fixed to the head otherwise despite the plate being 10mm thick it would bend but not deform like the 5mm plate did. The two brackets on the plate fastened to the exhaust manifold stud were crucial as they kept the plate exactly were it was and ensured the screw force was directed down into the top of the studs virtually in line with them. Longer bolts would of saved a bit of improvisation with 10mm threaded bar segments dropped into the stud holes. A thought was should I have gone for 10mm bolts but they might of stuck in the stud holes and caused damage plus they would not have fitted through the head stud nuts I used to guide the 8mm bolts till the stud was flush with the top of the head.
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 15 February, 2024, 06:00:25 PM
Hi all
Had a look at the heads today and the faces look pretty good with no corrosion around the piston area. Any body know what the green goop is that was used back in the day? They will need a skim and a good clean along with a check of the valves.
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: Kevinlincs on 15 February, 2024, 09:00:22 PM
Fantastic! What a great result for your perseverance, and to see the head faces in decent condition makes all the effort worthwhile.

The blue/green residue will most likely be the old style Ethylene Glycol anti-freeze, hopefully it hasn't eaten too deeply into the head faces but the areas around the fire rings looks good so all should be well with a skim.

Well done, a long journey but you got there  8)


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: frankxhv773t on 16 February, 2024, 10:37:24 AM
Might not the goop just be blue hylomar?


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: SanRemo78 on 16 February, 2024, 03:43:56 PM
corroded copper?


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancialulu on 16 February, 2024, 05:39:42 PM
I'm with Frank.


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 16 February, 2024, 09:38:28 PM
Hi all
I would be interested if putting the goop on the surfaces was done at the factory or here in the UK as the car was UK registered and spent most of it's life in the UK I think.
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 23 February, 2024, 04:23:29 PM
Hi all
had a quick look under the head gaskets today...all new to me as I have never took a wet liner engine apart. Looks pretty crumbly in there any tips?
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 26 February, 2024, 04:58:44 PM
Hi all
Had a clean up of the block today.
Clarkey


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: Richard Fridd on 26 February, 2024, 06:03:50 PM
Does this block have the brass tap to drain the water jacket? I haven't seen one until my latest block arrived.

 Richard


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: lancianut666 on 26 February, 2024, 09:25:41 PM
I think there is a pipe from the block to the bottom of the radiator...


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: frankxhv773t on 27 February, 2024, 10:47:59 AM
There should be a hose from the right side of the block to the alloy housing that the bottom hose attaches to. That housing includes a drain tap with a long vertical "T" handle for draining everything. The alloy housing is attached to the bottom of the radiator with a long bolt through the centre and the whole lot is rather prone to corrosion.


Title: Re: Flaminia PF Coupe resto
Post by: frankxhv773t on 27 February, 2024, 10:57:33 AM
The attachment to the block is a banjo coupling and the brass base of the tap should have a rubber tube to direct draining water outside the battery tray.