Lancia Motor Club

Hi,

I'm Ian and I've just joined the LMC and registered for the forum. I live in East Yorkshire and have been in, around and involved with the Lancia marque since I was about 8 years old... my Dad ran them and I grew up in the back of them.

Nice to be a member of the LMC and the forum ;D

/ic

Hi Ian,
Welcome to the Club and to the band of discerning drivers who recognise what a great car the Dedra is, no doubt some will scoff at such a statement but to those I would say "don't knock it until you've tried it".

As the Clubs Dedra Technical Adviser I'm a great fan and have owned 5 over the last 15 years.  having now retired I sold number 5, a 2.0ie Auto last year, not because I've gone off Dedra's but more a case of cutting your cloth to suit :'(

I know Steves old (your new car) and he really looked after it well, as he does with all his cars.

If you need any advice give me a ring or drop me an email, all the details are in the front of Viva Lancia.

Brian
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Welcome aboard Ian ... my only experience is being lapped by one at Goodwood ... so I won't be knocking that !

Thanks guys for the warm welcome  :)

I'm a former Dedra detractor myself actually. My Dad had a former Mountview Motors demonstrator from @ 6 months old and traded his Met' Bordeaux Prisma Symbol against it (I loved that car  :'( ) and I (as a worldly 14 year old) found the Dedra to be much less focused than the Prisma and not as hard edged... LOL

I still rate the Prisma highly and have owned a couple myself, but I've grown to appreciate the charms of the Dedra, and as I've found myself over the last few days it's no slouch either.

I was very pleased to buy the car from Steve (although he didn't seem too keen to actually part with it), and although I went armed with my full range of haggling and grot-detecting primed and ready it was quickly apparent that he was as "into" Lancia as you could possibly be.

He was a terrible salesperson and patiently and thoroughly explained all of the bad points of the car, what work had been done and when and even passed along the hand-written log book that he'd maintained during his ownership (I'm keeping this up). He agreed a VERY fair price indeed for the car and even gave it a wash and final inspection before talking me through the paperwork and letting me take it away. The car is a credit to Steve and I feel obliged to keep up his good work whilst I enjoy the car.

I was absolutely blown away by his Beta Coupe... what a car! I adore the Beta Coupe (long ambition to own one but never found one yet that lived up to my memories of my Dads 1979 2000 S2) and to have a chance to look (and smell) such a low mileage example in such wonderful condition really made my afternoon. The smell thing isn't just me being weird I think... it's because I've been around Lancia since I was so small maybe, but they really do have a "Lancia smell", which is kind of hard to describe but is very evocative and seems unique to the marque... When I was little I used to love to go to Calvert Lane or later to Mountview and poke my head inside the new cars of the day, originally Beta and Delta and then later on Thema and Dedra. They all had the Lancia smell :D

Ah, seem to have written a small and verbose novel there... sorry about that, but thanks for the welcome chaps. Brian... I shall be sure to bring my specialist Dedra queries your way :)

Hi Ian, and to echo the others, welcome!

What model Dedra do you have?

Hi Harvey,

It's a 1991 Dedra 2.0ie. Shall have to dig out a brochure from the period to find out what's standard and what was optional from new... but mine has:

Electric windows all round
Electric sunroof
Green Alcantara
Front Arm-rest
Oil pressure and temp gauges
Metallic black paint

These are certainly options that were not present on the 1989 Dedra 1.8ie that my dad had... but might be standard on the 2.0ie

:-)

/ic

Hi Ian,

Going by the fact that your car has the 2 oil gauges your Dedra is obviously a series 1, without a Kat, which appeared early on 1992 cars.

A lot of Dedra's that came here had a variety of options as standard but of the five I've owned, none have had the same spec!

However, a lot of 2.0ie didn't have the electric rear windows, in fact it was only my first one 1990 2.0iese that had them, but it did have electronic suspension, headlamp wash wipe, remote central locking, electronic heater controls with outside temperature gauge (contrary to what I've seen advertised on Dedras for sale, NO UK spec Cars were ever fitted with climate control, for some reason it was decided not to have aircon on the UK cars, what a missed opportunity) , ABS, oil pressure & oil temperature gauges, much more useful than the stupid voltmeter they replaced it with from 1992 on.

All cars that came here had sunroofs (at least I 've never seen one without that I can remember) originally I thought that all UK cars came with folding rear seats except on HF Turbo's that had leather, until I bought K452 PLK which didn't ???

All 2.0ie came with Alcantara while 1.8 & 1.6 had cloth as standard, although  Alcantara was an option on 1.8. all have the folding front armrest.

A 3 Channel ABS set up was available on 1.8 & 1.6 but I can only remember seeing one with this set up.


Metallic paint was an option.

While I can see that cost came into it when buying new, I've always thought that the 2.0 is a better buy as a used car than the 1.8, much higher specs came with the 2.0 and there are no differences when it comes to buying engine parts or servicing costs between the 2 models, as they both basically have the same engine and the 1.8 loses out slightly on performance, that said a well driven 1.8 would usually not be too far behind a 2.0. Braking with Ventilated front discs on the 2.0 were also an advantage.
The surprising one to me, of the 3 engine sizes that came here is the 1.6, especially the later ones with the uprated engine, I've always found it quite amazing how well the 1.6 performs, which is considerably better than you would think for a 1.6 pulling around the (Heavy) Dedra body.

I love them all, but what I really want is a 1995 2.0 (non Turbo) integrale SW, although I found one in Holland last year, I couldn't afford it, or to be honest couldn't justify buying it ;D
Pity we never got the later cars and the good looking SW in RHD.

Brian
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My 1994 "L" Dedra Turbo was also non-cat, but that's because it was registered in Feb 1994 but manufactured in August 1992...

I drove a 2.0 i.e. as a courtesy car from Auto Integrale (before Keith bought the Puntos) and quite liked it. It pulled nicely with the only thing missing being the punch in the back of the seat when the turbo kicks in!  :)
They're an under-rated car.

Look forward to meeting you & car at future events!

Interesting stuff Brian, I'm pretty hungry for Dedra trivia so this is all fascinating to me. It's strange that you mention not seeing a sunroof-less Dedra in the UK, the one my dad had (GXXXWTL) was a 1.8ie in (I think) Caribbean Blue with cloth (West of England Woolcloth I think...) interior, no sunroof, manual windows in the back and a two speaker Blaupunkt Cambridge set-up for audio. He also had the economy gauge rather than the oil gauges and the same alloy wheels as I have.

On the subject of the alloys... mine are a bit untidy, not dreadful but could use a refurb because of lifted lacquer and oxidisation... I've seen that Zagato can provide refurbished alloy wheels to original or other spec for £49 - £79 per wheel... is this a good deal and does anyone have a comment about the durability of the refinishing? The Dedra will not be a trailer queen so the wheels need to be good enough to deal with daily grime, brake dust and the such.

Cheers
Ian

I was fortunate enough to be able to buy new wheels for my Dedra prior to the Turin trip. They gave me a trade-in against my wheels (as they didn't have any Turbo wheels to refurbish) so I had new all round for £200.

They looked great... for the first year or so. Then the white spots started to appear. Not many, and not big - just specks, really, but once you know they're there, your eyes are drawn to them. The lacquer just isn't much cop at fending off water. I'd say, that unless your car is a fair-weather car only, then consider something other than replacing to the original specification.

Hmmm... that's interesting to know Harvey. I really don't know what else would look right on a Dedra, I half thought about some HF Integrale wheels, the 15" ones as they are still Lancia rims.

It's going to be a couple of months at least before I could afford to refurb or replace, and then we're almost into winter... so perhaps would be a good idea to park the wheels until next spring and crack on with the other jobs, maintaining and enjoying the car.

Half the fun of ownership is bench racing ;-)

Hi Ian

Welcome to the club and the forum.  My 97 Ypsilon had original Lancia alloys when I bought it and, as with many I've seen from the 1990s, they were badly delaminated and oxidised.  Luckily I managed to source some new 15" Cromodora Abarth alloys from my local Fiat dealer, the ones that were fitted to the Punto Sporting.  They're not Lancia I know but seem to fit the look of the Ypsi perfectly.  I've seen Integrale alloys on various different cars, from 2WD Deltas to Y10s (or are they Delta Turbo, I can't remember ::)), I can't imagine them looking out of place on the Dedra, I'm assuming they'd fit.

I agree about the Lancia smell.  The first time I got into Andy Collins' Y10 Selectronic it was instantly recognisable as my 1989 and 1986 Y10s, my friends' Prisma 1.6ie and Prisma Symbol (a lovely car) and Chris Owen's unbelievably immaculate Delta 1300.  Come to think of it, my Dad's Fiat Regata 85 smelt the same!

Hope to see you around some time, it sounds like you've got a lovely car.

Lee

Hi Ian,
I would agree with Lee & Chris regarding longevity of the finish of Dedra Alloys, I also bought new wheels for £200 a set about 4 years ago, they were a great bargain as originally the cost £189 each. I actually bought and fitted the 15" Dedra Turbo wheels,  and fitted 195x50 tyres, looked great and filled the wheelarches better than the 14" wheels, but ruined the ride which was very harsh. Thema wheels also fit, try Andy at Desira in Norfolk 01379 650131; as I know someone who still managed to get a set new last year from Fiat/Lancia.

The only way I kept the finish in good order for more than 1 year was by spraying them with WD 40 every week in the winter, but even then by the second year they were going again.

The Alloys on my first Dedra a 1990 2.0iese went terrible, in fact Lancia replaced no end of Alloys under warranty, they changed the supplier but still had the problem :( I digress, eventually I changed for a set of TSW wheels that looked good and never went crappy, thinking about it I seem to remember trying a Graphite colour enameled wheel fitted to my Y elefantino Rosso to one of my Dedra's, it fitted and looked pretty good, although I don't think there is anything to touch seeing the Dedra on the wheels it came with.

Photos show New Dedra Wheels on K452 PLK with Y showing Graphite Coloured  wheels, 2 of H851 WMR with TSW Wheels during photo shoot for AutoItalia comparing Dedra , Alfa 75, & Tipo 16v as bargain buy Italian cars.
Last shot is a very dirty H851 WMR with TSW's, a lowered 1.8 on Standard Wheels & Series 2 LHD only Delta HPE back in 1997 on "Dedra's in Derbyshire", these wheels would also look nice on a Dedra and are enamelled.

Brian
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Good to see a Dedra on something else for comparison. My local wheel specialist has these wheels at £245.00 which I thought would look OK:

(http://static3.shopify.com/s/files/1/0001/3927/products/spyke_7716113_large.jpg)

http://tyremen.myshopify.com/products/14-alutec-spyke-lancia (http://tyremen.myshopify.com/products/14-alutec-spyke-lancia)

I guess that once tyres are added into the picture it's going to be @ £550.00, so definitely something that will come as a lower priority than some jobs such as sorting out the minor dings and scabs in the body. The wheels that are on looks presentable, and I guess anyone that knows Dedra alloys will not crucify me for a little lifted lacquer as it seems impossible to avoid.

On a different note, I had a run from Hull to Halifax last night, cruising at a steady 55-60mph I got there and back on 1/4 tank which was a pleasant surprise, so I guess a little over 35mpg... does that sound about right?

I really must sort out the heater, it's lovely and warm driving along with the sunroof open at night but the ability to have cool air blown would be a real treat. I guess I need to follow the blue cable down behind the glovebox and see what's what... I'm anticipating some kind of seized metal valve, controlled by a plastic lever... ;)

Only other thing is a smell of hot oil that I get if I accelerate hard. Steve did mention that the car would burn a little oil and that he suspected piston wear as the cause... any other suggestions for the oil smell or should I assume that his diagnosis is correct and start budgeting for a rebuild in the future and driving sympathetically (which I do naturally) in the present?

Really appreciating all of the input guys, perhaps I should call time on the "hello" and start a thread for my Dedra in the model specific section? What is the view taken on this kind of thing. On fora like Retro Rides I've enjoyed keeping a "readers ride" thread and over time reading back on the developments of the car. Yay or nay for this approach on the LMC board?

Cheers
/ic

Go for it!

I managed about 35mpg in my Turbo if I didn't let the turbo engage, so it seems about right. I also had to top up the oil fairly regularly, and I'd heard it was a characteristic of the car. I've been alarmed that my Ypsilon doesn't seem to use oil - not a proper Lancia at all!

As Brian commented, no air-con on UK Dedras. Italians didn't seem to think it gets above 15 degrees in the UK...  ???

Hi Ian,
Be careful what you're doing with the heater controls it isn't a straightforward turn a knob and it pulls a cable, all the heater controls are interconnected,  and I'm assuming you have the 3 knobs of the manual system rather than the electronic control which really can make life complicated ??? so
Have a look at the attached diagrams etc from the manual. As we can only put on 4 pictures at a time I'll have to make this  a 2 pager.You don't actually say what the specific problem is? ::) is the fan motor not blowing properly? if that's the case it's a different problem, if you're not getting air distributed correctly try turning the air distribution selection knob to the left of the symbol you want, for some reason this is a common problem with Dedra manual heaters, probably been set up wrong in the first place.
Regarding hot oil smells, I was told by "Pebbly Beach" that the Lampredi twin cam is designed to use oil and to expect about 6oo miles per pint, out of my 5 only one was ever like that and indeed my first one n used to do about 1500 miles per pint until the head had to come off at 120k to change a leaking head gasket, after that it dropped to about 1000mpp. also check that the cambox isn't leaking oil on the far right hand side where the cambox meets the Cylinder head, it can leak he and drop down onto the top of a very hot exhaust downpipe, the last auto did that and it all had to come apart to fit a new gasket, not cheap to get done by a garage as the cambelt Counter balance shaft belt, Alternator / water pump & power steering belts all have to come off. If this happens, don't economise, change all the belts & the bearings at the same time.
The 3 manual gearbox Dedra's never did less than 30 MPg no matter how hard they were pushed in normal driving and often considerably more, & I have a bit of a leaden right foot ;D
On the other hand both Dedra Autos turned in abysmal fuel consumption, the best I achieved was about 30mpg on a run, in normal mixed driving, particularily if any town driving was involved it was always in the low 20's; the box is a VW electronic box but in Dedrea they got all the change points wrong, it won't stay in top at under 40mph, & when climbing or overtaking the damned things used to hang on to top gear & were exceedingly reluctant to change down, using the kick down is a bad idea as it promptly violently drops two gears, revs the guts out of the engine for about 2 seconds,  and and wacks back up a gear, finally sorted out the best technique is to leave the kickdown & the lever alone but use the sport mode button to change down then back to normal mode when the accelleration no longer required.
Tony Field who I bought the last one from used to do a lot of motorway work with it and said he used to get easily 30+mpg used in those conditions.

 

Sorry I hit the wrong button and sent this before adding attachments.
these will be in 2 parts due to only being allowd 4 pictures at a time, bit of a pain that one >:(

Brian
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Part 2

also photo showing oil dripping onto exhaust manifold from where it also drips onto exhaust pipe.

Brian
8227 8)

Ah that's great Brian... it's the hot/cold mixture knob that doesn't seem to work correctly on mine. I had the dash apart the other night and can feel that the knob is moving the cable so whether the cable is adjusted incorrectly or whether there is a valve stuck deeper within the heater box will need to be investigated.

These diagrams should prove a great help, and in fact I have now the offer of a factory manual for the Dedra from a former owner of a Dedra turbo in Grimsby (seems to be a pocket of Lancia owners there). It will be a couple or so weeks before I can get my hands on that though so these diagrams will be invaluable in sorting out the heater before then.

With the engine I do get a decent mileage it seems, certainly more economical than my Prisma was, and it's lively enough. On the motorway I need to keep my wits about me, as it is very easy to find the car quietly climbing from 70mph. One thing about the wind noise etc. on the Prisma was that it kept me at legal speeds unless I really wanted otherwise, the refinement of the Dedra is a double edged sword ;)

Cheers... off to London with the daughter now for some kids entertainment. More car stuff / sanity tomorrow :D

Hi Ian
I've attached another bit of information that maybe helpful, just keep your fingers crossed it's not anything broken on one of the flaps in the box, to get at the heater box is a complete dash teardown :'(



The man from Grimsby sounds like smy friend Alan Cooper, he actually bought his Dedra Turbo new, he alo bought a 1999 New Delta Hpe (LHD Only)from Rotterdam & I also went to the same place to buy my Y Elefantino Rosso new in 1999. No doubt Steve put you onto him? as he's also a very good friend of Alans.

Are you goinbg to the AGM?

Brian
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Hi Brian,

Not able to get the the AGM this time I'm afraid, the timing was a bit wrong for me as I'd some tickets to take my daughter to a show in London and my parents were back from holiday today... so a hectic weekend :)

I had a bit of a look this morning and I was relieved to find that all is well at the heater box end of the mixture adjustment and manually moving the level proved it was working and not stuck or broken. The problem seems to be that when the mixture knob is twisted anti clockwise that it doesn't "push" the cable and move the lever, however if I manually move the lever to 100% cold position and then twist the mixture knob clockwise then it will happily move the lever to the 100% hot position, twisting the knob again anti clockwise doesn't move the lever. So I am almost certain that the problem lies within the knob mechanism and how the cable connects to the heater control panel... further news as it happens. I'm going to study those diagrams again, they're very helpful and I appreciate you taking the time to post them :)

/ic

Hi Ian and welcome. I too am anew member although i am returning after 15 years out of the club!! I am a big fan of Dedras having owned a 1.6 and a 1.8 and never had any problems with either. I do think time has been kind to their looks too, with them looking classier now than when new. I would quite like one to use as my daily driver, but getting hard to find now.
Regards Marcus.

Hi Marcus,

Welcome (back) also then :)

Brian had made a post about a white Dedra for sale on here a couple of days back, I think the ad is gone but Brian might have the full scoop?

/ic

Yes I saw it and have given the guy a ring but unfortunately have not got hold of him as yet. I will try again tomorrow as the car sounds just right for me. Will keep you posted on my progress, it would be nice to have a Dedra again....wonder if its got that smell..!? I know exactly what you mean by the way.
Regards, Marcus.

Hi Marcus,
Man after my own heart ;D as you have no doubt read I love Dedra's.

I rang the man last night & told him I'd put it on the Forum so it shouldn't come as a surprise if you get hold of him.

If you don't get hold of him another member approached me at the AGM on sunday with a view to cutting down his current crop of Lancia-Lotus & Alfa & is looking to sell his wifes Dedra, I don't think he will want a lot for it if it goes to a good home.

Brian
8227 8)

What's the spec on that one Brian, if Marcus doesn't go for it then I also have someone that's seen mine and become all misty eyed :)

Looks like rehoming Dedras could be pretty fast and easy :D

Kicking myself for not snapping up the ex-Lancia GB press car turbo that was up for £750 last year... live and learn eh? :)

Hi Ian,
Can't remember offhand I think it's a 2.0ie but I know Chris Catlow has upgraded the interior, seem to recall it might have a turbo interior now ?
He replaced the nearside rear wing after someone nudged it up the rear, he has a big claim to fame as contrary to what the workshop manual says "Remove headlining & rear windscreen" to replace a rear wing, chris figured out how to do so without that bit ;D

Try him on 01453 758123

Any problem, come back to me as he's sometimes hard to get hold of.

Brian
8227 8)

Thanks Brian, shall give him a call...

On another note I've done as I said and started a dedicated thread in the Dedra section of the forum for general nonsense about my car and adventures with it. Moderators, please feed free to lock this thread if that's wanted (not sure on the admin etiquette of this forum yet :) )

You'll get censored (and censured) for bad language and confessing to a garage that is less than 50% Italian metal. Other than that, the forum is open for all discussions, hints and tips, and assorted waffle.  :)

Just to let you know that I contacted Trevor about the Dedra Brian alerted me to. I am arranging to travel to Bury st Edmunds this week to view and hopefully buy the car. From Trevors description it sounds Ideal! Lets hope it is a worthwhile trip!! I am looking forward to having it as my daily driver. Marcus.

I'll keep my fingers crossed it's as good as it sounded ;D

Not exactly a straigtforward journey for you ::)


Brian
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