Lancia Motor Club

Model Technical and Interest => Fulvia => Topic started by: Wangler on 12 December, 2021, 01:41:15 PM



Title: Starting during winter lay-up
Post by: Wangler on 12 December, 2021, 01:41:15 PM
Many members donít use their cars in the winter, usually for fear of salt and water causing corrosion. I believe in starting the car every couple of weeks to keep things mobile and disperse condensation. Starting a Fulvia after not being used for a while is usually a pain unless you have an electric fuel pump. Yes I know that it helps to circulate the oil, but I hate churning the engine over for what seems like ages.

I attach a photo of my solution, which works very well. You just bend the pipe upright, open the valve and pour some petrol into the funnel to prime the carbs. If you donít like the look of it for regular use itís easy enough to replace the set-up with a new piece of 8mm pipe until the winter comes.

The brass Y piece is readily available on eBay and the valve is a good quality one from Mcgillmotorsport (eBay). Donít be tempted by the cheap brass Y pieces incorporating valves. I tried one initially but it leaked badly, so I binned it.

Apologies if my post states the obvious as a solution.


Title: Re: Starting during winter lay-up
Post by: my69S1 on 12 December, 2021, 05:09:52 PM
Why not just install an electric fuel pump and wire it up to a switch under your dash.  Turn on the pump to prime your carbs and then once started turn off the pump and let your mechanical pump do its job.  My only concern with your set up is that the fuel you are pouring into the carbs has not been filtered, unless you have one in the funnel.  Tiny specs you don't see can easily plug your jets or fuel passages.


Title: Re: Starting during winter lay-up
Post by: Wangler on 12 December, 2021, 05:26:38 PM
I considered using an electric pump and indeed have suitable one. However itís a not a quick job to fit, involves drilling holes for its mount (I hate drilling holes in cars unless really necessary) and introduces more associated clutter into the engine compartment. In all a more complicated arrangement which I donít believe is warranted.

Fair point about filtration, but simply taken care of.


Title: Re: Starting during winter lay-up
Post by: Richard Fridd on 12 December, 2021, 05:50:57 PM
Would a petrol priming bulb work?


Title: Re: Starting during winter lay-up
Post by: Wangler on 12 December, 2021, 06:48:22 PM
Thatís a very good question.  The only reason I can think of for why it might not is if the fuel pump has a valve that would stop the flow, or if the bulb collapsed if too much fuel was sucked through it. Would be good to hear if someone has tried it.


Title: Re: Starting during winter lay-up
Post by: lancialulu on 12 December, 2021, 07:48:03 PM
Would a petrol priming bulb work?
are these ethanol proof??


Title: Re: Starting during winter lay-up
Post by: Wangler on 12 December, 2021, 08:32:28 PM
Ethanol resistant ones are certainly available They have to be in some states (e.g. California) in the USA due to the high levels of ethanol they use in their petrol. And thereís a lot of outboard engines in California!


Title: Re: Starting during winter lay-up
Post by: Wangler on 13 December, 2021, 09:51:51 PM
Would a petrol priming bulb work?

Having done some digging around Iím pretty sure that a priming bulb as commonly used for outboard engines would work. For a winter fitment I think it would be ideal, although for the summer when the car is used much more, I wouldnít want it as part of the system as it looks to me to be a potential weak spot.


Title: Re: Starting during winter lay-up
Post by: fay66 on 14 December, 2021, 09:52:35 AM
Would a petrol priming bulb work?

Having done some digging around Iím pretty sure that a priming bulb as commonly used for outboard engines would work. For a winter fitment I think it would be ideal, although for the summer when the car is used much more, I wouldnít want it as part of the system as it looks to me to be a potential weak spot.
Yes they do work, and a number of friends on the continent use them.
Personally I fitted an electric priming pump although I was given a bulb one, why go crawling around under the bonnet when you don't need to?.
As for using cars in the winter, I've been using my 2c in the winter for the last 22 years.
I just make sure it's a dry day with no wet on the roads, and certainly not if there's fresh salt on the road, while preferably sunny.
It's not only the engine that needs to be worried about, brakes and clutch need a good workout as well.
A 30 mile drive on a lovely dry day with the airflow getting rid of any damp.
What could be nicer?.
Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Starting during winter lay-up
Post by: andyps on 14 December, 2021, 02:55:27 PM

As for using cars in the winter, I've been using my 2c in the winter for the last 22 years.
I just make sure it's a dry day with no wet on the roads, and certainly not if there's fresh salt on the road, while preferably sunny.
It's not only the engine that needs to be worried about, brakes and clutch need a good workout as well.
A 30 mile drive on a lovely dry day with the airflow getting rid of any damp.
What could be nicer?.
Brian
8227 8)

I agree with this and it is my plan for the winter, although as I want to get my headlamps rechromed it will mean I can't use the car whilst they are being done.

As a related point, what electric fuel pump is anyone using? The one on my car broke so I need a replacement and may as well get a recommended one, the one which was fitted was a generic plastic bodied one fitted to the car when I bought it.


Title: Re: Starting during winter lay-up
Post by: Richard Fridd on 14 December, 2021, 04:42:19 PM
Twin cylindrical Facet pumps with pressure regulator in the case of my car. The fitment of a suitable spring within such a pump seems a good idea to limit fuel pressure. Facet cube style pump good for priming and/ or running, which I had on previous cars. Auto cut off pressure switch obviously advisable. Richard


Title: Re: Starting during winter lay-up
Post by: nistri on 14 December, 2021, 08:04:52 PM
Even within the same brand there are different electric pump specifications. One would want a pump which has an upper limit of about 0.3-0.35 bar pressure. Andrea


Title: Re: Starting during winter lay-up
Post by: Wangler on 14 December, 2021, 11:52:42 PM

As for using cars in the winter, I've been using my 2c in the winter for the last 22 years.
I just make sure it's a dry day with no wet on the roads, and certainly not if there's fresh salt on the road, while preferably sunny.
It's not only the engine that needs to be worried about, brakes and clutch need a good workout as well.
A 30 mile drive on a lovely dry day with the airflow getting rid of any damp.
What could be nicer?.
Brian
8227 8)

I agree with this and it is my plan for the winter, although as I want to get my headlamps rechromed it will mean I can't use the car whilst they are being done.

As a related point, what electric fuel pump is anyone using? The one on my car broke so I need a replacement and may as well get a recommended one, the one which was fitted was a generic plastic bodied one fitted to the car when I bought it.

Have a look at Hardi pumps, made in Germany. I did fit one (a 14412) but despite the pressure and output specified seemingly being perfectly matched it couldnít supply enough fuel when really needed. I decided that as the original Lancia fuel pump had been working perfectly I would ditch the idea of an electric one. Historic Racing in Germany sell Hardi pumps and I seem to recall that the one they recommend (which is the next size up from the one I had) doesnít need a pressure regulator. Iím sure they can advise you.

https://shop.historicracing.de/en/c/fulvia


Title: Re: Starting during winter lay-up
Post by: fay66 on 15 December, 2021, 12:06:12 PM

As for using cars in the winter, I've been using my 2c in the winter for the last 22 years.
I just make sure it's a dry day with no wet on the roads, and certainly not if there's fresh salt on the road, while preferably sunny.
It's not only the engine that needs to be worried about, brakes and clutch need a good workout as well.
A 30 mile drive on a lovely dry day with the airflow getting rid of any damp.
What could be nicer?.
Brian
8227 8)

I agree with this and it is my plan for the winter, although as I want to get my headlamps rechromed it will mean I can't use the car whilst they are being done.

As a related point, what electric fuel pump is anyone using? The one on my car broke so I need a replacement and may as well get a recommended one, the one which was fitted was a generic plastic bodied one fitted to the car when I bought it.
I don't know the make as it was fitted by the garage that looks after my 2c , but it is mounted just forward of the fuel tank, it is only used for priming as I have retained the original type fuel pump.
I have a separate switch with a light mounted just under the heater controls, the light in the switch pulses  and you can hear the pump running.
As soon as the pump stops, I turn off the switch, and I can easily start.
Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Starting during winter lay-up
Post by: davidwheeler on 19 December, 2021, 09:26:44 PM
I fitted the electric pump and filter/regulator into the boot of my Coupe and my Sport and deleted the mechanical pump.   No problems over several years of use and very reliable.   Done the same with my 2CV though that pump is mounted under the bonnet. 


Title: Re: Starting during winter lay-up
Post by: Wangler on 04 January, 2022, 09:32:46 AM
Would a petrol priming bulb work?

Thank you for that excellent suggestion. I've now done away with my rather Heath-Robinson setup and put in a bulb between the metal fuel line where it enters the engine compartment and the standard fuel pump - it works a treat. I'll probably take it off when I start to use it on the road in the spring, simply because it's something that could go wrong as it's only a cheap rubber component.



Title: Re: Starting during winter lay-up
Post by: Richard Fridd on 04 January, 2022, 10:01:58 AM
Thank you for the conformation. I will try and keep the idea in the memory. Does it require many pumps? I suppose if it has a non return valve and is near to the carbs that would help. Although a 'near to the carbs' position can obviously get hot. Do you have a photo to post? Richard


Title: Re: Starting during winter lay-up
Post by: Wangler on 04 January, 2022, 12:12:00 PM
There you go!

Only needs a few squeezes. I'm sure there must be a non-return valve but I wouldn't think it could be relied upon to make a good enough seal if you were to leave the car for a few weeks.


Title: Re: Starting during winter lay-up
Post by: fay66 on 05 January, 2022, 02:12:26 PM
There you go!

Only needs a few squeezes. I'm sure there must be a non-return valve but I wouldn't think it could be relied upon to make a good enough seal if you were to leave the car for a few weeks.
Friend in the Netherlands leaves his in place all the time and he's never mentioned it leaking, it seems to be a popular fit there.
However I still prefer the electric pump fitted just in front of the furl tank about 5 years ago , although I recently had the fuel hoses to and from it changed, as they were leaking .
Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Starting during winter lay-up
Post by: nistri on 06 January, 2022, 12:45:37 PM
Good quality fuel hoses now carry a stamped date on them (like tyres) to indicate their manufacture date. Worth replacing them after 5-7 years with modern petrol usage, Andrea