Lancia Motor Club

Model Technical and Interest => Augusta => Topic started by: Mikenoangelo on 30 November, 2019, 10:26:30 PM

Title: Augusta progress
Post by: Mikenoangelo on 30 November, 2019, 10:26:30 PM
Having seen all the recent epic Appia and Fulvia progress reports I thought I should update on my Winter Augusta projects.

The Augusta I bought from Modena last year has run for about 1000 miles this year mainly for me to enjoy, which I did greatly, but also to see what needed doing on the mechanical side. The car is very good bodily with no rust and seemingly very correct and original. In fact the previous now departed owner was meticulous with the bodywork, having stripped it completely to bare metal and refurbished the whole car during his 35 years ownership. He was very keen on rust protection as everything is heavily greased, even the inside of the headlights!

The mechanical side is a bit of an unknown as there are no bills, although it appears to be fine, with good compression, no smoke, uses no oil and goes well. All the brakes had been relined with new hoses and the car rewired. Apart from the dreaded fuel gauge which I mentioned earlier (no progress on that), everything works. It has been converted to 12v although I suspect the starter motor is just boosted not converted, and I fitted a 12v to 6v voltage reducer to the wiper motor which ran hot and had a poor contact in the switch. Interestingly the voltage reduction has not slowed the motor and it no longer overheats. The fan bearings were noisy so I replaced them and the engine is now pretty quiet.

I had a fuel starvation problem which was confused by a failing ignition coil, and as I eventually discovered, rather inadequate plug leads. The fuel starvation arose because although the filter is correct, the fuel tap is Ardea not Augusta and the outlet fitting on the tap lacks the circumferential groove which lets fuel through the integral banjo fitting on the filter. I tested the fuel flow rate and the maximum flow would only feed enough fuel for about 25mpg which was evidently not enough for full throttle at 45-50 mph uphill. The ignition lead problem was unexpected as there was no evident misfiring, and being unused to the feeling of a 4V I did not detect anything out of order. When I changed the leads and plug caps there was a marked improvement in smoothness and power. I  had fitted a cheap digital rev counter which gets the signal from a wire wrapped around the coil to distributor lead and had attributed the slightly flickery reading to the nature of the £25 instrument - more fool me as once the leads had been changed it reads very steadily. Interestingly it also counts the hours run so I can see that my year's motoring has been done at an average speed of about 28mph.

Jobs to do include searching for the cause of vibration at about 2800rpm which could be engine or transmission and the need to improve the front suspension which had unfortunately been greased so that the shockabsorber function was absent. The steering seems a bit heavier than I expected and the right hand side gives out a clonk when crossing a pothole, of which North Yorkshire council provide us with plenty.

I've made a start, having had the propshaft balanced and last week having removed and dismantled the gearbox which needs new bearings and attention to wear on the mainshaft centre spigot and the clutch shaft spigot. More of that later.

Meantime I've more or less finished making the tools needed to strip the front suspension which as you can see from the picture include a large "G" clamp to remove the lower spring, an unusual spanner with 4 pegs to remove the kingpin, a "C" spanner ( not yet cut to form the "C"), two castle box spanners, and a large double ended ring spanner for the top of the pillar.

Keeps me going!!


Title: Re: Augusta progress
Post by: DavidLaver on 30 November, 2019, 11:12:28 PM

Love the photo of the tools.  Am greatly looking forward to the saga continuing. 

Title: Re: Augusta progress
Post by: Raahauge on 02 December, 2019, 08:53:02 PM
Good to hear of progress, I did my front suspension a few months ago.
Both had water in them and as a consequence some rust. The damper rods were serviceable but one of the smaller damper drive springs was broken and the other rusty so had some more made, available if you need any.
The water was there because the upper dust cover was absent. The top cap has about a 12mm hole and the damper rod is 10mm. so nothing to keep the spray out.
I have not been able to find out what the original arrangement was, would be interested to know what you have. I have made a couple of push-on covers.

Title: Re: Augusta progress
Post by: Mikenoangelo on 05 December, 2019, 09:10:11 PM
Mike I'll take some pictures for you - there was a rubber washer nipped by the  oiler nipple and the aluminium dust cover. I'm on with the gearbox at the moment so have not yet attacked the suspension.

I can do a running commentary on the these jobs as I do them if this is of interest to members. I am well aware that Morris Parry has covered much of this in the Newsletters but I find the reports on other models interesting so perhaps others will enjoy seeing how the Augusta works.

This was the state of play earlier in the week:-

Gearbox investigation so far!

We have a vibration which I am trying to track down. I worried at first that this could be the engine but after sorting out the ignition problem, making a new locating spider for the front fabric universal joint and having the propshaft balanced by Dunning and Fairbank in Leeds. I concluded it must originate in the gearbox or clutch. The u/j discs are in good condition.

The curious thing is that the vibration does not always show, but when it does, at about 45mph, it can often be suppressed by a quick pump of the clutch pedal. When in full vibrato mood, holding the clutch down and letting the revs drop makes no difference, so it is not engine related. The “quick jab at the clutch” cure must therefore mean clutch or gearbox - so out with the box and dismantle - hoping not to forget how it all goes together. Fortunately Morris Parry’s Newsletter tells all, and I am photographing it as I go.

Removing the box from underneath the car was surprisingly easy, with the help of a chum in case the whole thing fell onto me! I don’t have a pit, but with some extra tall axle stands at the front and blocks under the back wheels we could get to everything comfortably.

After removing the propshaft, and the lever controlling the freewheel, disconnecting the speedometer cable and clutch pedal link, lifting out the gearlever, propping the front of the engine with a simple wooden stand (the engine will tip forward when relieved of the weight of the gearbox) the clutch actuating fork must be disengaged. This is a very clever feature but you need to see it to understand - the fork which presses the thrust race is asymmetrical so it can be tilted away from the race and moved sideways to disengage from the race. The shaft on which the fork is mounted crosses through the bell housing and is retained by a circlip on the left of the bell housing. Having removed the circlip the shaft is pushed  in about 12mm to the right and wriggled about until it can be felt to have disenged the fork. This is a very ingenious feature and a good example of the fully designed nature of the Lancia - all thought out and drawn up rather than being made up as the prototype builders went along.

From this point the job was easy, just remove the cross bolt which supports the tail of the box and the five bell housing bolts then wriggle the box back and out - it clears everything, although only by millimetres and is light enough to manhandle with no need for props or jacks.

Next task was to strip the gearbox. A full description of the procedure is written up in the Augusta Newsletter and all went to plan.  All the gears look to be free of wear, including the notoriously noisy second gear - although it was noisy. The lock up driving dogs on the freewheel show no signs of tapering wear but the bearings were like the curate’s egg - good in parts - so I shall change them all.

Here are some photos


Title: Re: Augusta progress
Post by: rogerelias on 05 December, 2019, 10:28:10 PM
I am curious about the Salmson car, is that a Trials car built by Colin Salmson ?

Title: Re: Augusta progress
Post by: JohnMillham on 06 December, 2019, 08:36:33 AM
I am curious about the Salmson car, is that a Trials car built by Colin Salmson ?
Ha Ha! It's a nice little French light car which goes very well. Mike took me for a ride in it a few years ago and it's quite impressive.

Title: Re: Augusta progress
Post by: DavidLaver on 06 December, 2019, 09:14:46 AM
"I can do a running commentary on the these jobs as I do them if this is of interest to members. "


The clutch release is new to me. 

I enjoyed reading first and pictures after, the reverse of a magazine article.

Title: Re: Augusta progress
Post by: Mikenoangelo on 06 December, 2019, 09:42:38 PM
I’ve taken the shafts and bearings to HB Bearings in Honley near Huddersfield to sort out replacement  bearings for those which are non standard sizes and also grind the circumferential grooves in the outer races of the three bearings which are located by a dowel. The tiny roller race between the input shaft and mainshaft is worn, as is the spigot on which it runs on the main shaft - there is a standard needle roller race which Karl Sanger has used here so I shall do the same, getting HB to grind the shaft and housing to fit. The front spigot on the input shaft which engages with a small bearing in the flywheel is also in poor shape and I’ll await HB’s suggestion for this - most probably a light grind to the shaft and then make a new ball race with a smaller bore to fit.

When I got the car the freewheel had been locked out of action and on a short You Tube video the previous owner mentions that the freewheel was a bit problematicaI so I did not try to re-activate it. Just as well as it turned out. There are no signs of the overheating which can arise if the driving dogs become worn to a taper and overload the freewheel selector fork but the 10mm bolt which screws into the tail end of the mainshaft to retain the freewheel cam and roller unit had sheared off and was floating loose within the freewheel driven drum. The bolt has an over-large hexagon head 27mm across flats so care is needed when tightening it. I managed to remove the detached end of the stud by cautiously drilling it with the shaft in my lathe and using an “Easyout” stud extractor. I made a new bolt of EN24T, and a new tab washer. The wire locking the freewheel lever out of action was holding the freewheel selector fork and cam/roller unit forward, taking load which would normally be taken by the now sheared off bolt. Ughhh! The freewheel seems to be perfect and does operate as it should when turned by hand although the selector fork is a bit worn as expected since it had been wired to hold the unit in the locked position.

The large ball race at the back of the mainshaft is a problem, being non standard in outside diameter so that when dismantling, the freewheel unit can be withdrawn from the back of the box. HB will make a new ball race to fit, a job they do frequently, being among other things, specialist bearing suppliers to the motor sport industry.

Apart from the bearings the rest of the gearbox parts, including gears, dogs and splines look to be in very good condition and the standard of finish and detail is superb. There are a couple of quirky bits of design. The large rear bearing is kept in place by a pair of 12mm studs, notched on one flank to straddle the outer race and inserted with the bearing into the housing which has semicircular grooves to take the studs, which are tightened by a dome nut outside the back cover of the box to pull the bearing back into place. Three bearings have circumferential groove round the outer race which engage with dowels inserted through the side of the gearbox. The input shaft main bearing is retained by a pair of Belville washers (a dished spring washer) retained by a 4mm pin through the shaft which has a notch at each end which allows the washer to lap over the pin onto the notch and so stop the pin from coming out.

Overall I am very impressed with the quality of the gearbox which was certainly a no expense spared piece of kit. Having owned and worked on a couple of vintage Rolls Royces I would say that the Augusta is well up there in quality and is perhaps like the RR, a bit more complex than it needed to be!

Title: Re: Augusta progress
Post by: Mikenoangelo on 06 December, 2019, 10:09:59 PM
The Salmson is another story - I've owned it since 1984 and have done about 70,000 miles with it. A brilliant car, 1100cc twin overhead cam engine and weighs less than 600kg. It's done some epic trips and can cover the ground amazingly for its age as it has a happy cruising speed of 58-60mph at 3000rpm. Lots of trips to France and 20 years ago a double crossing of the USA with complete reliability.

Title: Re: Augusta progress
Post by: Kari on 07 December, 2019, 10:06:06 AM
I follow with great interest your proceedings of the gear box overhaul. Looks all very familiar to me.

Regarding the free wheel selector fork, I had mine straightened because it got bent while hot and then I had it welded up before ground to original dimensions.

In you picture No.10, I can see those dogs in very good condition, but the wear would be at the opposite part with the small dogs as in picture No. 5.  If those dogs are much worn, tapered, the only solution would be to make a new part 31-1739. There is an original drawing available.

For the unbalance you have described, it looks as there is a slight unbalance in the crankshaft/fly wheel assy. and in the clutch assy. Depending of the relative position of those part to each other, the inbalances add up or cancel themselves. I have had that on my car. One part in the clutch assy. which is unbalanced by design, is the clutch spring, which is very assymetric.
Another suspect would be the pressed sheet metal part which compresses the spring. The 6 mm holes can be enlarged, therefore the part can be displaced.



Title: Re: Augusta progress
Post by: DavidLaver on 08 December, 2019, 12:11:48 PM

Fascinating as ever.  Has this been a living or "just" a very serious hobby? 

Have you a "potted history" of the Salmson, perhaps an old article you'd written, you could easily post on another thread?

"Belville washers" I last came across reading about the early active suspension Williams, I expect in one of the new style Haynes Manuals. 

Title: Re: Augusta progress
Post by: Mikenoangelo on 08 December, 2019, 09:02:35 PM
Good to hear of progress, I did my front suspension a few months ago.The top cap has about a 12mm hole and the damper rod is 10mm. so nothing to keep the spray out.
I have not been able to find out what the original arrangement was, would be interested to know what you have. I have made a couple of push-on covers.

Mike - the seal at the top of the pillar seems to have been a soft sponge rubber washer about 4mm thick on top of the pillar and beneath the dust cover, the whole thing being clamped down by the oiler nipple. My car seems to be pretty much unmolested as none of the rubber seals or bushes, washers etc seem to have been replaced so I think what you see in my picture is what was fitted from new. I had to replace the rubber supporting bushes under the engine mounts and they were certainly original, athough so compressed that I could not insert the (non existent - had to make that!) starting handle as the front of the engine  was so low.
Thanks for the offer of buffer springs - I may well need to take you up on that as the offside front suspension does clonk on potholes, however that comes after the gearbox job.

By the way has anyone found a source for the dust cap for these oiler nipples? They are similar to the Enots oilers and caps used on Rolls Royces, but smaller.


Title: Re: Augusta progress
Post by: Mikenoangelo on 08 December, 2019, 09:51:46 PM
Now the gearbox bits are away to be fixed I am taking a look at the clutch which as Karl has mentioned could well be the source of vibration, certainly looking into the thrust race cover and spring, they do seem to be a bit off to the right. Picture 14. Very hard to photograph but with a feeler gauge the offset is about a millimetre.

To replace the ball race in the flywheel into which the very worn spigot end of the gearbox input shaft “fits”,  involves removing the clutch and taking off the flywheel to access the bearing. I ask myself whether the worn spigot is due to clutch imbalance, displacement of the spring retaining cover, or whether the clutch plate goes offset because the spigot is worn? Chicken and egg!

Another tool was needed and made today. Others have made a widget to engage with the fitting on the clutch shaft and compress the spring so that the bolts which hold the dished cover against which the clutch spring acts can be safely undone. I did not have a big enough piece of steel bar to do it that way so made a cross bar and plate which bolts to the bell housing flange on the crankcase which will take the load while the three bolts (tiny 6mm) are taken out and replaced by longer bits of studding to progressively unload the spring. It may be that the cross bar alone could do the job but it’s belts and braces for me as it’s a jolly strong spring. Picture 15.

It’s not possible to remove the small bolts one at a time and replace them with studding as the clutch cover is very lightweight and would distort. I suspect the original method was to use some sort of cross bar clamp as there are two 8mm holes diametrically opposite in the crankcase flange although oddly there is not enough room on the back of the flange for the head of a standard bolt. Not using these two holes creates a problem as the five gearbox mounting bolt holes are not diametrically opposed so an extra bridging strip is needed.

Karl I got the dogs wrong as you say! Here are the driving dogs which act when the freewheel is locked out. They are a bit worn but I think they will clean up with a slight grind on the flanks. Pictures 12 and13.

Title: Re: Augusta progress
Post by: Mikenoangelo on 08 December, 2019, 10:06:17 PM

Fascinating as ever.  Has this been a living or "just" a very serious hobby?  

Have you a "potted history" of the Salmson, perhaps an old article you'd written, you could easily post on another thread?

David thanks for your interest - I can bore forever on the Salmson but will just do a short bit on another  thread so as not to pollute the Augusta saga.

No I'm not a professional just a vintage petrolhead. I'm self taught as an engineer although I had a half share in an engineering company in which my business partner did all the engineering and I did everything else. My first car was a 1926 Bullnose Morris bought in 1954. Since then I've had and restored a couple of Rolls 20's, a Three Litre Bentley, the Salmson, and a 1907 Stanley Steamer. I've also restored a Brescia Bugatti and fiddled with some GN bits. All of these cars are still in action with their current owners which is very pleasing. I like fettling as much as motoring and enjoy the challenge of something new to me. I've no great interest in modern cars being a vintage man at heart, and the Augusta is the newest old car I have owned.