Lancia Motor Club

Model Technical and Interest => Lambda => Topic started by: Dikappa on 11 November, 2019, 08:45:27 PM



Title: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: Dikappa on 11 November, 2019, 08:45:27 PM
Today I moved the Lambda body out of the basement in the workshop, which for me marks the start of the build up proces.  Although I have it for more than two years now and a lot of time has been already spent on the search for missing bits, and some smaller tasks have already been adressed.

Most of the parts however still need cleaning, blasting, painting or re-assembly, os it will be a lengthy proces.  Is it realistic to still aim for Fobello 2021?  A man must have a goal so I'll surely give it a try.

After much consideration I decided to hand the engine to a specialist, and it will be build up using my available spares, but with a new block, crank, camshaft and pistons.  A though (and costly) decision, but I think a good one, and at least that job will be out of my hands.

In this tread I'll try to keep you all informed of the progress, and it will one day hopefully provide a record of the work done.  Hopefully it will also help me to keep motivated!

For those who do not know the 'project', it is a correct 8th series tipo 221 chassis (1928), bought 'naked' by the previous owner, who had a Casaro MM style body built on it in Italy around 2000.  Apparantly three of these cars were constructed at that time.  I bought the car as it is now in the pictures with a lot of parts with it, and the body already painted (not sure if that is an advantage)
Luckily there was a lot of help from other Lambda owners around the globe in getting together most of the missing bits, as I would like to build at least the mechanicals as correct as possible to the original.  Some things such as seats and window frames etc will have to be build from scratch however....



Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: Parisien on 11 November, 2019, 10:45:43 PM
Koen, great news, having seen the body work in person and heard of your plans first hand, moving the Lambda out of its storage area into pride of place in your workshop is a real milestone.

Knowing you have the engine rebuild progressing plus quite a few of the other mechanical parts gathered up is a real fillip to this wonderful restoration, will follow your thread with great interest.

Plus by documenting as many details of the rebuild as possible will be a great resource for many other Lambda projects.

P


Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: simonandjuliet on 12 November, 2019, 07:26:59 AM
Really looking forward to following this - I know very little about Lambdas only traveling in one once (Norman Stewart's car many years ago), so  it will be fascinating to look under the skin

Is it a 2 seater, or is there a dickie seat hidden under the cover ?

Bon Courage


Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: Dikappa on 12 November, 2019, 02:37:44 PM
Simon,  It's suposed to be a two seater, but I have been playing with the idea to fit some sort of small bench in the luggage compartment (there would be no place then to take the cover along...and it would'nt be very comfortable.  In any case it's now the last thing on my mind....


Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: frankxhv773t on 12 November, 2019, 04:23:25 PM
This is going to be fantastic. Please could we see some pictures of the chassis as well when it is convenient. It would be nice to see the various major components before it all starts coming together. I often feel the urge to photograph something with pride when I have fitted it all together then wonder why I didn't take pictures of the bits before I started.

Good luck.


Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: tzf60 on 12 November, 2019, 04:52:27 PM
Hi Koen,
What a fabulous project you have undertaken. I'm very impressed by the body. I'm equally impressed by your (?) workshop.
My garage will never feel the same again....... :D
 
Good luck with your endeavours!
Tim


Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: JohnMillham on 12 November, 2019, 05:02:14 PM
This is going to be fantastic. Please could we see some pictures of the chassis as well when it is convenient. It would be nice to see the various major components before it all starts coming together. I often feel the urge to photograph something with pride when I have fitted it all together then wonder why I didn't take pictures of the bits before I started.

Good luck.
Chassis? It doesn't have one!


Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: frankxhv773t on 13 November, 2019, 03:36:47 PM
John, I suppose not! From the wording of the initial post I assumed it was a platform chassis on which the Cassaro body was mounted but from the body shown that obviously can't be the case. Also the chassis I imagined, like an Aprilia platform, is not what coach built cars were based on. At least my mistake means I am now better informed!


Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: Dikappa on 13 November, 2019, 06:21:05 PM
It is indeed a platform "chassis", but an 8th series, which did not have the incorperated boot anymore.  The aluminium body is bolted on, and could even easily be removed again, although that would certainly waste the paint job.

I'll try to make some pics this weekend.


Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: JohnMillham on 13 November, 2019, 06:48:26 PM
It is indeed a platform "chassis", but an 8th series, which did not have the incorperated boot anymore.  The aluminium body is bolted on, and could even easily be removed again, although that would certainly waste the paint job.

I'll try to make some pics this weekend.
My mistake. I didnít realise it was built on the platform chassis. Apologies!


Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: frankxhv773t on 13 November, 2019, 11:46:08 PM
So I now stand doubly corrected!


Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: lanciafulviahf1.6 on 14 November, 2019, 08:59:32 AM
Wonderful! Look forward to seeing the progress on the build


Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: Mikenoangelo on 14 November, 2019, 11:16:13 AM
Koen the Lambda looks fantastic with that body but maybe flared mudguards as on this Austro Daimler might look even better!

The picture was taken at the VSCC Buxton Rally about 1956 and in the background, top left is my first car, a 1926 Bullnose Morris Oxford, which happily survives to this day in the ownership of a leading member of the Bullnose morris Club. The Austro Daimler has I believe disappeared into a collection on Germany.

Mike


Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: DavidLaver on 14 November, 2019, 12:56:34 PM

Regarding a seat in the back - am sure they'd be a way to make an alternative lid that came apart to stow... 

Might not be the one you use "day to day" (!!!!!!) but they'd be a way to keep the rain out when parked up short of a tarp and bungee straps.

Lovely project, and looking forward to updates.


Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: Sebastien on 16 November, 2019, 11:19:01 AM
Hello Koen,
The picture of your bodyshell, naked, makes me think that you might at this stage want to consider reinforcing the front frame, around the radiator.

Why ? On my Lambda (a 7th series, so with an integral radiator, quite different from an 8th series) I damaged my radiator this summer while driving fast over speed bumps, and roundabouts : this driving fast is quite fun, when your suspension is in good order, but transmits heavy loads through the front diagonals, into the front frame.
The repair of a leaking 7th series radiator can get quite expensive, and is really annoying when you have had it fitted with a new core just 6 months previously !
While discussing this with my Australian friends at Castlemaine a few weeks ago, they all showed me that their Lambdas had reinforcements of various types fitted to their front frame. They told me that that was necessary, when driving as they do for long distances over Australian roads.
When putting in a reinforcing bar, you have to take into account the cooling fan, aesthetics, and the water pipes going into the radiator.
The appended pictures of Australian Lambdas can give you some ideas.

I look forward to the story of your progress Ė will make a nice car, for sure !


Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: Dikappa on 16 November, 2019, 04:33:49 PM
Thank you all for the input!

@Sebastien: a reinforcement is planned.  I feel the best way to do it is as in the second picture of your post, and drill out the original reinforcement first.  It should off course have been done BEFORE the body is painted....
I'll have to find out a way of defining where the fan will be, my engine and fan support are in Italy now....so maybe this will have to wait till it's back.

Not much done yet, again quite a bit of unplanned service work the past week....



Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: davidwheeler on 17 November, 2019, 03:37:07 PM
Mt VIIth had been badly repaired elsewhere and I decided to make a new frame.    I bought some heavy duty box section of the right size, cut it in half with my Evolution Rage (which will cut anything) and made it up quite easily, with the rear flange rather more generous than the original.   The gauge is about twice the original and seems entirely stable so far.   The VIIIth had already been reinforced before she came into my posession (53 years ago) but also needs rebuilding as it is in leaning backwards, which does nothing for the handling, so I shall do the same with it as well.


Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: Dikappa on 18 November, 2019, 07:26:58 AM
Not much done to the Lambda over the weekend, (although I was in the workshop two days, but 'real' work to do....)
But there is something that I would like some opinions on (dangerous I know....)

I've been thinking a while about colours for the front suspension frame (and headlights), and the rear suspension carrier tube.  They are still unpainted.
I was always thinking to have the rear tube in the body colour (as are the more forward rear spring carriers on the side) but to have the front suspension (including the frame) and headlights in black.
Now i'm a bit in doubt....

So any considerations, and if possible information on how it was originally most welcome!

Another question is al other black parts under the car and in the engine compartment: were they originally in gloss, satin, or matt (stuff like rear axle, brake cross shafts, steering gear, pedals etc)
On a very fine restored Astura on Interclassice I noticed a mix of glossy and matt paint in the engine compartment...should have taken notes!


Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: Sebastien on 18 November, 2019, 09:09:35 AM
Koen,

The best solution for you would be to fly to San Francisco, and have a close look at the ex Peter Giddings Casaro replica.

The second best, and less expensive  ;) will be to check out the more than 100 photos on the following page.

That ex Peter Giddings car is just now for sale at Fantasy Junction, for USD 245'000.

https://fantasyjunction.com/inventory/1928-lancia-lambda/overview


Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: Dikappa on 24 November, 2019, 06:04:06 PM
Small jobs done in the past week.  I've been working on seats, as the seats I got with the car were far to wide to fit in it!
I want the seats to be sliding due to my own long length, so that other people can drive the car too, so I trial fitted an ardea seat, which still proved too wide, but came close to what I had in mind.

As the ardea seats belong to a complete car I did not want to cut 'm up, although I did dismantle the fabric of one of the backrests to see how things were made at the time.  I was amazed by the amount of work that must have been put into these seats...

Since I had a spare set of sliding rails recoverd from the seats I got with the project that were almost identical to the ardea ones and more or less suitable for a prewar car I decided to make a copy of the ardea seats, but less wide, and this will also alow me to shape the backrests to suit the shape of the Lambda.

This weekend I set out to fabricate the structure for the seats.  I made a drawing of the supports for the backrests and will have those laser cut.  Dit some probe seating using the ardea seat to find out height etc, and decided to mount the rails sloping downward to hte back so that bigger people will sit lower....

I will most probably use foam for the cushions rather then spring packs, simply because the cost difference is considerable, and foam offers at least the same comfort with a thinner pack, which again alows more room for my too long legs!

First picture is the 'example' ardea seat, two other pictures are one of the two seat frames as far as they got until now.  It took a few go's and mismeasurements to get two of the exact dimensions and completely the same shape...

Saturday morning I picked up the rear springs that were refurbished by a specialist.  The main and second blades were made new and received new bronze bushings, and some other leaves here and there were replaced as they had cracked in the middle.

Small steps!


Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: simonandjuliet on 24 November, 2019, 08:34:26 PM
Very satisfying

Are you making a leather interior - what colour ?


Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: Dikappa on 25 November, 2019, 08:01:47 AM
Hi Simon,

Yes I think it should be leather, what's on my mind is a cognac colour.  However I always dislike the new leather on old cars, so my idea is to find a suitable used leather sofa set and use that leather.  SDo now every now and then I stroll used furniture ads hoping something pops up.  I could off course go for the very nice 'original' Lambda leather that is on show n Padova, but the price is really horrendous (one could buy a complete new 2-3 sofa set, tear it appart en be still off cheaper!....


Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: simonandjuliet on 25 November, 2019, 08:30:07 AM
Here you are .....

https://www.leboncoin.fr/ameublement/1712412608.htm/ (https://www.leboncoin.fr/ameublement/1712412608.htm/)

Bon courage !


Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: JohnMillham on 25 November, 2019, 09:30:43 AM
Koen, please bear in mind that most upholsterers will make the seats too hard these days. Original Lambda seats were very soft and you sink well down on them. Many of the re-upholstered seats I have encountered are so hard that the driver has to duck down low in order to see through the windscreen rather than over it. Good luck, John


Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: Dikappa on 25 November, 2019, 10:35:20 AM
 Thanks for the advise from a long one John!  My super advisor in that field is Leo Schildkamp, who has good knowledge of this proffession, and I must say I found his Lamura very comfortable.

Another question to you John: did you make a recess in the floor under the pedal's?  As that is something I think might work for me, and I can always make a small cover for it for the little ones  ;)


Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: frankxhv773t on 25 November, 2019, 05:55:06 PM
You say "small steps" that take "sooo long" but you will benefit at the end of the process. I suspect you will eventually reach a point when it all comes together surprisingly quickly. I agree whole heartedly about new leather too. Is it something to do with environmentally friendly tanning? I find so many new restorations today spoiled by completely inauthentic leather. The finish is too matt but more particularly is seems to pucker where it is pulled into corners.


Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: Dilambdaman on 26 November, 2019, 12:14:19 AM
Hi Koen,

Just caught up with this thread and wish you well with your exciting project.

In my experience the very best way to get a restoration finished is to have an event to aim for and for you Fobello 2021 couldn't be better. With my Dilambda the incentive was Turin 2006 and we did it with half an hour to spare in three years. For the Fulvia Fanalone, Fulvia 50th was the goal and we made it with half an hour to spare in just six months. http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5820.0

Suspension and steering painting. I'm with Sebastien, go for the colour scheme of the Peter Giddings car. When deciding for my Dilambda a friend directed me to a Rolls Royce publication on the subject which stated quite categorically that black was the correct colour for the chassis and everything attached to it on a vintage car, and also for the wheels. I've had to do with two other Dilambda over recent times, one had suspension, steering gear and wheels in body colour, the other had much of it chromium plated and the wheels body colour. Neither looked right to me, in fact I actively disliked it.

Seats. I searched the internet for suitable leather and Ebay came up with five full skins for a bargain price in dark brown which were very nicely creased and patinated. They suited my requirement perfectly resulting in upholstery which looks as though it is eighty years old!

I'm with John here and would suggest that you go for sprung seat cushions if possible. One of the afore mentioned Dilambda had a very expensive trim job with very firm  overstuffed seat bases and shiny leather. Uncomfortable to sit on and difficult to hold oneself in place on the slippery surface particularly of the rear seat. Just perfect to slide onto Modestine's seats, sink nicely down in and gently bounce along as you travel!

Looking forward to your future posts and to see the finished results in Fobello, although Modestine, being a Dilambda sadly doesn't qualify to attend.

Robin.


 


Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: JohnMillham on 27 November, 2019, 08:36:31 AM
Thanks for the advise from a long one John!  My super advisor in that field is Leo Schildkamp, who has good knowledge of this proffession, and I must say I found his Lamura very comfortable.

Another question to you John: did you make a recess in the floor under the pedal's?  As that is something I think might work for me, and I can always make a small cover for it for the little ones  ;)

No there's no recess under the pedals, or the need for one, but it's important to have as much room as possible on the right-hand side of the accelerator pedal. Some of my friends, with wider feet than mine, have to drive their Lambdas without their right shoe! My car has the trim cut away at that point.


Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: davidwheeler on 27 November, 2019, 09:38:26 AM
My VIIth is very similar.


Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: Dikappa on 27 November, 2019, 03:13:46 PM
John,

I know that problem, and there will be no trim there on my car.  I've seen several Lambda with a part of the brake pedal cut away even.  I have been looking at an original 8th series left hooker, there that problem is non existant, but the car was way out of my reach...(and was sold afterwards nonetheless)

I hope to find a solution to slightly offset the brake pedal, although there is very little room for that.

I think one of the fist steps will be to rebuild and paint the pedal box and the steering gear, and put that in place, it will give me a better feel of correct seating position.


Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: Dikappa on 01 December, 2019, 08:13:23 PM
Not much to report, but some small jobs done such as fabrication of swivel points for the accelerator pedal, and some dismanteling of the two small fuel and oil tanks to prepare them for blasting.  I also took appart the steering colum for cleaning and preparation, and found the bearing inside the bearing carrier broken.  Very odd as one would think this bearing has an easy live...maybe it has something to do with how it was removed from the car at the time...

Is there any knowledge here on the forum regarding the Nivex l'exhausteur vacuum operated fuel system?  Is this wise to try and use this still or is an electric fuel pump hidden in the back a better proposition?
I have a dismanteled unit here (which involves desoldering the housing), and noticed a cork float is used inside, and fear the coating might not be very resitant to fuels containing ethanol...

Seats are a bit on hold as the laser company has not made the necessary parts yet.


Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: davidwheeler on 02 December, 2019, 12:57:31 PM
I have rebuilt both my Le Nivex pumps using an SU float and found them very reliable.     The split pins holding the various levers in place tend to break if you take them apart but if the only problem is the float then all the rest may be left untouched.     I have just posted the details on the Technical Information thread.


Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: Dikappa on 03 December, 2019, 08:33:10 PM
Hi David,  thanks for the posts, interesting read.  Regarding the floats I was alredy thinking along that line, were it copper floats?  Do you remember which type they came out?


Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: davidwheeler on 04 December, 2019, 09:23:12 AM
They are brass but I do not remember which ones.  They seem to have changed the specifications to cope with moder fuels though.  You will find them here  http://sucarb.co.uk/float-chambers-spares/floats.html 


Title: Re: Lambda....the journey begins!
Post by: Dikappa on 08 December, 2019, 05:09:00 PM
Some progress over the weekend!
Friday the laser company was ready with the lower backrest frames for the seats.  They are an exact copy of the ardea items.  I had them made in 2mm thick steel as I found the originals in 1.5 mm a bit flimsy.  The original Ardea items are a bit flanged around the edges to stiffen them so I wanted that too.  Hammering by hand was not very succesfull, due to the thickness, and did not seem to help my tennis elbow (wonder where that came from...)
Saturday I decided to try to make a homemade tool for the Pullmax machine and although looking quite crude this did the job very nicely in minutes.

Today I welded the rails to the seat frames and started on making a frame on which to mount the seats.  It looks simple but took a lot of measuring and probe sitting to get it right.  Frame now welded and probe fritted in the car.  I will have to drill some holes here and there to fix it later this week, then it will have to come out again for painting.

With the bases of the seats now fitted I plan to make a wooden template for the shape of the backrests, hopefully some time for that over the week....