Lancia Motor Club

Buy, Sell and Search => Spares for sale => Topic started by: HPE1984 on 10 March, 2019, 09:06:22 PM



Title: Beta HPE 2.0 i.e engine parts for sale
Post by: HPE1984 on 10 March, 2019, 09:06:22 PM
I have decided to convert my 1985 Beta HPE 2.0. i.e. to electric, after discovering that the engine block will need a rebore, as one of the cylinder valves had gotten stuck over some time. There are a number of good spares including some new start engine and electronic controller parts etc., as well as the petrol tank and other pieces when these are removed. I would be interested in selling the parts as a lot. Send me a message if of interest, the car is in central London.


Title: Re: Beta HPE 2.0 i.e engine parts for sale
Post by: peteracs on 10 March, 2019, 11:13:01 PM
Hi

Interesting project. It had been mentioned on the Beta forum and I have copied your posting on their as well. I will relay any requests I get in.

Peter


Title: Re: Beta HPE 2.0 i.e engine parts for sale
Post by: simonandjuliet on 11 March, 2019, 07:27:44 AM
If you do go down the electric route, please share it with the forum - I would be very interested to see how it's done. I have had the vague idea of doing something similar with an S3 Appia one day


Title: Re: Beta HPE 2.0 i.e engine parts for sale
Post by: Parisien on 11 March, 2019, 09:21:03 PM
There's a supplement with this months Classic and Sports Car, 5 pages long, listing companies who "electrify" classic cars, ranging from Morris Minors, MGBs and Beetles to Aston Martins and 911s.

HPE1994, I'd posted this in the wrong thread if of interest.

I can mail it to you if you wish.

P


Title: Re: Beta HPE 2.0 i.e engine parts for sale
Post by: DavidLaver on 12 March, 2019, 02:14:20 PM

At the London classic car show LOADS of companies there with electric classics.  I looked on the Beta forum and saw "budget option 10K to 20K" and can report that in RELATIVE terms that's the case.  Might be 80K for a Mini from one of the posh lot.  Still very much at the "early adopter" stage...and I expect its the sort of people who'd have one on the end of a large fleet rather than applying "normal economics". 

In that regard there was a Lotus Elite (might have been an Eclat, the one like an Excel not the 1950s one) that had had 60K spent on it, crazy, but fantastic to see with the body raised a couple of feet above the chassis.  Drum brakes at the back...who knew...  Its for someone who wanted one for his collection and wanted it to the same standard as the rest of the collection and, thankfully, was happy to risk it (and share it) in the show hall.  Who are we to reason how much someone spends on a glass of wine or a boat charter or a suit or to enter the Spa 6hrs or whatever else. 



Title: Re: Beta HPE 2.0 i.e engine parts for sale
Post by: DavidLaver on 12 March, 2019, 02:25:22 PM
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Title: Re: Beta HPE 2.0 i.e engine parts for sale
Post by: DavidLaver on 12 March, 2019, 02:45:25 PM
Found it:

https://www.driving.co.uk/news/classic-mini-goes-electric-79000/

...but now for those where 80K is "the price of a nice watch" or "coat of paint for the yacht" rather than the rest of us...


Title: Re: Beta HPE 2.0 i.e engine parts for sale
Post by: fay66 on 12 March, 2019, 07:38:57 PM
Found it:

https://www.driving.co.uk/news/classic-mini-goes-electric-79000/

...but now for those where 80K is "the price of a nice watch" or "coat of paint for the yacht" rather than the rest of us...
Personally I can't see the point, it's not a mini, although based on an original mini I believe, as for an electric E type, an even more worthless exercise, both will never be original.
I suspect for those with more money than sense.
Brian
8227
 8)


Title: Re: Beta HPE 2.0 i.e engine parts for sale
Post by: DavidLaver on 12 March, 2019, 11:03:10 PM
On the news just now - over 5000 people in London with over 20,000,000 in assets.  There's a market for such things.

A friend of a friend has a youtube channel and had a look at one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdcT0LH_8HY

Logic for an electric Mini?   Easy to park. Doesn't take that much garage space, could put that and a motorbike in the same space.  Looks cute, raises a smile.  Drives like a Mini, packaged like a Mini.  For the moment there's a massive novelty value, a talking point, friends would want to have a ride or a try.

Maybe the historic equivalent is someone like Peter Sellers or the Beatles driving a Wood and Picket conversion.  I doubt they were cheap...

https://www.margrave-mini.com/history/price_list_68/price_list_68.html

Multiply by 17.


Title: Re: Beta HPE 2.0 i.e engine parts for sale
Post by: DavidLaver on 12 March, 2019, 11:27:12 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ruygd6FSEmM

Just watched the second half of this one.  A 500 is a great city car, hard to beat, and the package is why not the motor.  They see it as a whole new market, people who otherwise wouldn't consider a classic car.  Would certainly cheer the streets up having a few more classic cars out and about, even if they don't go chugga chugga or vroom vroom.


Title: Re: Beta HPE 2.0 i.e engine parts for sale
Post by: fay66 on 13 March, 2019, 12:32:11 AM
On the news just now - over 5000 people in London with over 20,000,000 in assets.  There's a market for such things.

A friend of a friend has a youtube channel and had a look at one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdcT0LH_8HY

Logic for an electric Mini?   Easy to park. Doesn't take that much garage space, could put that and a motorbike in the same space.  Looks cute, raises a smile.  Drives like a Mini, packaged like a Mini.  For the moment there's a massive novelty value, a talking point, friends would want to have a ride or a try.

Maybe the historic equivalent is someone like Peter Sellers or the Beatles driving a Wood and Picket conversion.  I doubt they were cheap...

https://www.margrave-mini.com/history/price_list_68/price_list_68.html

Multiply by 17.

David,
buy a mini 850cc, all the above benefits and save about 60K as well as having a decent range. And going by the write up an original mini is quite a bit smaller, at least in its width, It might not be able to accelerate as fast but when a lot of your driving in London is probably 0 to 10mph, it won't make that much difference.
As a yokel for the last 60 years instead of a Londoner, when I venture into London I get the feeling that most Londoners are masochists, why ever would anyone want to drive in London ??? particularly Central London, surprised most people don't use the old Boris Bikes!
That way they could be Lycra Louts without the pedalling
Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Beta HPE 2.0 i.e engine parts for sale
Post by: stanley sweet on 13 March, 2019, 12:33:43 AM
Reading the various threads on this subject the best compromise seems to be electric horses but I dread to think where the charging socket would be.


Title: Re: Beta HPE 2.0 i.e engine parts for sale
Post by: DavidLaver on 13 March, 2019, 04:15:25 PM

I suppose the electric mini would sit next to a Tesla people carrier in the same way a Porsche 911 used to sit next to a Volvo XC90.  Neither an electric mini or a 911 "make sense", but so little else in life does anyway.  Why would anyone try and keep an old Lancia on the road for a start...

Electric bikes are an increasingly common sight as well.  "Mainstream" bike shops tend to have a few as well as the specialists.

This is a window I like looking in when going to the BBC:

https://www.velorution.com/velorution-electric-homepage

The ARCC is interesting.  It uses a power tool battery.  I've only seen it "in the wild" as a retrofit to Bromptons.  Brompton do their own electric now as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6ZlAkjD024&feature=youtu.be

I bet it won't be long and they'll be generic conversions, for example to power the rear wheels of a Fulvia or Flavia, from the same way as companies sell electric power steering or electronic ignition systems or alternators hidden in dynamo casings.  Replace a disk and caliper with an electric motor disk and caliper sort of thing.



Title: Re: Beta HPE 2.0 i.e engine parts for sale
Post by: DavidLaver on 13 March, 2019, 04:20:01 PM

The economic case is made in the Morris Minor video.  IF (and I say "if"...) you are going daily into the congestion charge zone (and a lot of people do live in that zone) there's more than a 2000 a year saving to be had, the fuel might be another thousand, with conversion costs potentially under 10K there's starting to be a case for it.  If the engine needed a rebuild anyway there's a clear case.

Then there's the social pressure of "it just seems rude doing the school run in anything other than electric" which (thank goodness) is a change from the same sort of people who used to say "of course I need a big 4x4 to feel that the kids are safe in today's traffic".


Title: Re: Beta HPE 2.0 i.e engine parts for sale
Post by: DavidLaver on 13 March, 2019, 04:30:22 PM

This system needs an 18in wheel minimum and is 110bhp per corner so not "Fulvia or Flavia" but "that's the idea".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSz-en0mhIc

This is more the scale:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYgeWST3RE

Won't be long they'll be kits out there.

Not for everyone, not for everywhere, but its at the "consumer" stage in the same way that its not just hippies and electrical engineering professors who have solar cells on the roof.


Title: Re: Beta HPE 2.0 i.e engine parts for sale
Post by: DavidLaver on 13 March, 2019, 04:52:05 PM
https://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=85393

Fulvia 2c - 92Nm at 4300rpm, 52Kw at 6000rpm.

http://www.cnqsmotor.com/en/article_read/QS%20Motor%201000W%20205%2040H%20V2%20E-car%20Hub%20Motor/265.html

The example "car" there is a golf buggy so perhaps these are a bit on the small side.  Been too long a day for me to do the maths, either "how steep a hill would they push a Fulvia up?" or to work through Fulvia first gear and final drive ratios to compare "92Nm via a gearbox" with the "2 x 182Nm direct".


Title: Re: Beta HPE 2.0 i.e engine parts for sale
Post by: DavidLaver on 13 March, 2019, 05:04:24 PM
https://electrek.co/2018/04/16/ev-startup-mw-motors-luka-ev-retro-looking-electric-car-in-wheel-hub-motor/

That's about as close as I can find...  A pair of motors would give 30bhp, and being electric they'd be "big horses".  

...or hang a system from the spring mounts, unsprung motors in the middle with drive shafts.


Title: Re: Beta HPE 2.0 i.e engine parts for sale
Post by: DavidLaver on 13 March, 2019, 05:11:21 PM
Space for one of those under the back of a Fulvia?

https://press.zf.com/site/press/en_de/microsites/press/list/release/release_33659.html

The sort of thing PSA are using to add 4x4 capability.

https://www.groupe-psa.com/en/newsroom/automotive-innovation/plug-in-hybrid-vehicle/



Title: Re: Beta HPE 2.0 i.e engine parts for sale
Post by: stanley sweet on 14 March, 2019, 01:02:56 AM
We've gone full circle. The Lohner Porsche of 1900 had hub mounted electric motors.


Title: Re: Beta HPE 2.0 i.e engine parts for sale
Post by: neil-yaj396 on 14 March, 2019, 07:11:59 AM
I can see that you have really got into this David. Perhaps you will own the first electric Lancia!


Title: Re: Beta HPE 2.0 i.e engine parts for sale
Post by: DavidLaver on 14 March, 2019, 04:02:46 PM
It's an interesting moment for cars, and we live somewhere where electric does make sense at this stage of their development. A huge proportion of people locally, perhaps even the majority now, would have one if they could afford one.  

As for doing a Lancia myself we don't really need a car at all...but for me it would be added interest not desecration.  The Flavia Sport is so far off, and needs so much doing, I can very easily say "maybe..."  How hard could it be to add a token electric drive to get at least hybrid status?

The other quirk to the regulations is LPG.  I asked the question and it needs to be an approved conversion, and that's something that has been type tested not the sort people put on V12 Jags and 1980s Range Rovers to drop the fuel bill.  They're really thinking about dust carts and cranes rather than me replacing the spare wheel with a tank that never gets filled.

For a "Bobby dodger" conversion:

http://www.kitcardirect.co.uk/electric-reverse-kit-2149.html

Used to "tick the box" for bike engined kit cars.  I've no idea how effective they are...  My guess is "not very".

Having watched this I think you've got to be desperate...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdObULcKL94

...but "a real one" is 800...

http://eliteracingtransmissions.com/categories/motorbike-engined-sub-menu/reverse-box/