Lancia Motor Club

Model Technical and Interest => Augusta => Topic started by: DavidLaver on 17 January, 2008, 05:34:16 PM



Title: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 17 January, 2008, 05:34:16 PM

The Augusta's seats - will have to work out how to post pictures - have an exposed tube along the top of the back rest perhaps as a grab handle for rear seat passengers.  The backs are plain, seats fluted, with little adjustment levers next to the tunnel to slide back and forth.   They're a lovely design but the (red) leather and stuffing is all shot.  The "bedsprings" might be ok still.  Looks like they tilt against a spring action, but it could be a spring loaded catch. 

In our MG Midget I use plywood side plates between sill and seat and seat and tunnel for additional support cornering.  They're padded and covered in black vinal to match the seats.  I expect I'll end up with similar for this car.  Have you seen Aurelias with padding on the doors?  I came across a picture of one recently - if only I could remember...

Aprilia engine into an Augusta seems to be a popular idea.  The tight spot is between the inlet manifold and steering box.  The other concern is how the gearlever, handbrake, and dash interact.  If it came to it I could make a remote for the gear change but it would be a shame to give up that direct connection.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 17 January, 2008, 05:46:13 PM

On nights with a full moon I flick through the Alfa books pondering superchargers and finned manifolds...  The state of the thing getting it to roll is the first challange!!   We can leave that thought until I know how it goes on standard Aprilia power...

My other longer term thought is 18in wheels and Michelin DRs  (I really MUST hide all those Alfa books).   Is the SCSS a good tyre?  One thing in its favour is that its available again.  VTS sold 45 last year and their current stock is less than a month old so can be sure of fresh supplies.  I want to be VSCC legal so Michelin Xs are not an option.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: donw on 17 January, 2008, 09:19:39 PM
David

Assuming its a chassis model the seats were hinged to gain access to the rear, the top rail was chromed.

Don


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 17 January, 2008, 10:50:12 PM

It is a chassis model - the chrome is loooong gone.  Having had a look this evening in a better light there seems to be no latch as such, just pull forwards against a spring.  The cover is leather, the base wood, and the back some strange sort of plastic laminate.  Bed spring base, horse hair, some fluffy stuff...

Anyone got a picture of a chassis model back seat?

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 25 January, 2008, 12:32:31 PM

Got the front wheels off - hubs and splines all look nice - steering swivels left and right easily and the bottom section of the pillar "scrubs up nice". 

All very encouraging...

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: Harvey on 25 January, 2008, 04:45:06 PM
For info, when you reply to a post, there's a link below the text box that says "Additional options". Click to discover the magical attachment options. You're allowed pics up to 256KB, and at the time of writing this, there's even room in the upload folder to accept them...
Of course, I might be seeing things slightly differently with extra admin options. Let me know if I'm talking rubbish.


Title: Augusta seats
Post by: DavidLaver on 25 January, 2008, 06:30:25 PM
Photos of the seats.  What's that on the lever?  Is it a trade mark or Italian for "little and large"?

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: Scarpia on 26 January, 2008, 10:35:06 AM
more likely the italian for "Morecambe and Wise"....they were always more popular...





Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DianaW on 26 January, 2008, 12:10:33 PM
I think that it means patented lever - according to our Italian dictionary brevett-o means patent.



Diana


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: Scarpia on 26 January, 2008, 01:35:22 PM
DW is right of course, just cannot help the frivolity sometimes.


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 31 January, 2008, 09:40:45 AM

Have looked at the seats again and am now wondering if the leather from the backs is enough to repair the fronts... 

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: donw on 31 January, 2008, 12:39:45 PM
David

I think I may have some red leather somewhere amongst my bits I'll have a look, if I have you are welcome to it.

Don


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 31 January, 2008, 08:02:51 PM

Thankyou yes!!

A friend who runs a museum told me any leather can be revived, and that I shouldn't worry about colour matching patches as can recolour when its done.  I'm not alowed to wimp out by claiming to need a heavy duty sewing machine as can always stich by hand and doing a repair matching the holes already in the old leather it really has to be by hand.

Conservation has an appeal over replication.  Nothing ventured nothing gained?

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 31 January, 2008, 08:06:13 PM
His tip to soften the leather:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neatsfoot_oil


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 01 February, 2008, 04:21:05 PM

Other recomendations:-

- Ko-Cho-Line Leather Dressing

- Pecard Antique Leather Dressing

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: donw on 03 February, 2008, 01:00:49 PM
David
I am getting a little confused by your various threads!  How many cars are your restoring?  I thought your Augusta special was to be Aprilia powered is it going to have Aprilia rear suspension as well!!

I recall from having to change the diff on my Aprilia in the 60s that John Maltby had the ex Alperton rear transvers spring strecher which I borrowed It made the job of removal very easy.  On reassembly if you do not get the splines of the torsion bars correctly lined up you end up with the car sitting one side up and one side down at the rear!

On oil filters the vane type work with straight oil providing they are washed out in petrol every 2 t0 3 thousand miles.  There is a good mod for Augusta engines with a new aluminium peice that bolts on where the vane filter fits but it takes a modern screw on throw away filter enabling detergent oil (cheaper) to be used.

I have found what I think is half a hide 60"X34" useable red grained leather which you are welcome too, if you are not in a hurry we can probably arrange for it to get to you via the LMC network.

For cleaning and resussitating leather I use the various Gliptone products which work well.

What is the projected have it finished timescale?

Don


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 03 February, 2008, 04:02:54 PM

The Aprilia rear axle comment was an aside.  My Augusta chassis appears to have basically sound front and rear axles. I think the front axle on an Augusta is the best Lancia ever did.  The back end looks very sensible.  I've heard nothing but praise for how an Augusta holds the road.  The reputation is of the best steering of any Lancia.  Word is the chassis is robust and easy to look after.  Am hoping with a bit more power and a bit less weight its going to be a really usable little car.

The timescale overal is "in its own time".   Spent a dirty morning wire brushing wheels as the short term deadline is to have it (and everything else) out that lockup by the end of the month.   Am hoping that's on sound and painted wheels with some leftover Aurelia tyres. 

Am hoping I'll be able to keep chipping away at it now.   At this stage I've the world of choice as to "what next" with it.  The dashboard and seats are good "winter sports".  I'm itching to experminent with coach painting the rad shell and bonnet.  The engine will keep being soaked - I had some stale petrol which is now in the bores. 

I'd be most grateful for leather - worked out yesterday that what's on the pair of seats is about enough for one seat.  Will be looking up Gliptone as yet to invest in leather reviver. 

I've two and a bit Aprilia engines.   Am keeping my fingers crossed this seized lump will come back to life without needing a big cash injection. 

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 03 March, 2008, 04:43:52 PM
Car is now home...

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 03 March, 2008, 04:47:38 PM
...and the spare steering box is apart on the bench...

I found it full of rollers which support the shaft at each end.  A couple of spacers are missing and the lid is cracked.  Unless some spares turn up will make the spacers and sandwich the cracked lid under a thick ali plate with some longer studs.

The good new mechanically is that the front suspension will compess and rebound - it is NOT seized.  Back axle feels pretty good as well.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: Scarpia on 03 March, 2008, 05:14:08 PM
Looks very similar to the aprilia unit.

I foolishly started to undo mine whilst under the car and all the needle rollers fell out on the floor.It was an absolute nightmare to reassemble with each roller being replaced with a blob of grease to hold it in place. Everytime I tried to replace the shaft they moved out of position and I would start once more.Took me half a dozen attempts at least.Despite replacing gaskets and using thicker lube the dam thing still ooozes oil out but is mechanically fine.


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 03 March, 2008, 06:35:32 PM
What oil do you use?   When I first built the Austin 7 the tip was a mixture of engine oil and grease.  I've now got some Penright stuff I think is called "steering box oil".

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: ColinMarr on 03 March, 2008, 07:11:25 PM
A well known south London specialist workshop used to advise fitting a grease-nipple to the filler cap for both the steering box and idler box on Fulvias, and then filling with grease. It has not been done to my car, but I don’t know of any adverse effects. Purists would object!

Colin


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 03 March, 2008, 07:42:33 PM

If it was only grease in the Austin 7 box it was horrible...   I've no idea what ratio I ended up with.  Next time I have "that book" out will look it up.  I was pleased with the feel and it all stayed in.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: Scarpia on 04 March, 2008, 11:57:29 AM
It is a penrite heavy duty (read viscous) oil in mine but it is still is determined to escape....Not sure about the effects of trying a grease as described below but I need to re examine the thing; I'm fairly sure it wouldn't have leaked when new.


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 04 March, 2008, 01:12:46 PM
I found the Austin 7 book I was thinking of but alas no reference.  It will occure to me at some point where I got the tip from...

Just had a little google and came up with this link from which I've pulled two quotes out below:-

http://www.film.queensu.ca/cj3b/Tech/Lube.html

David

====

"The consensus, as expressed on many Jeep mailing lists, seems to be that whatever lubricant the manufacturer referred to in the early manuals, it is no longer available. The reference to 140 wt gear oil is interesting, as it seems to be a later one. 'Knuckle pudding' is a concoction many are using -- a 50/50 mixture of bearing grease and 90wt gear oil. (The 'pudding' comes from the fact that to make this stuff, one has to slowly heat the gear oil, while stirring in the grease.)"

===

"I have run 90 wt gear oil in mine for years (and years). I think Willys put plugs where gear oil goes and grease fittings where grease goes. The only exception I've made to this is the steering box and it is for the same reason I have reservations about pure grease in the knuckles. When it has room to do so, grease pushes away from the moving parts and tends to stay there, not having the viscosity of oil. Of course it lubricates some, but the parts are not in a "bath" as I think the knuckles were intended to be. Reed's 'pudding' is probably the best compromise if you have leaks you can't deal with right now. Butre-sealing these knuckles is fairly easy and inexpensive. I replaced mine near six years ago and have no leaks as of yet."


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: JohnMillham on 04 March, 2008, 03:06:39 PM
Colin, certainly a bad thing to do on Lambdas. It was done on mine and then pumped full of oil without removing the "level" plug at the back (which many people don't know about). The result was burst oil seals all round! It's important to let the air out as the oil goes in. Regards, John


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: fay66 on 04 March, 2008, 05:09:40 PM
A well known south London specialist workshop used to advise fitting a grease-nipple to the filler cap for both the steering box and idler box on Fulvias, and then filling with grease. It has not been done to my car, but I don’t know of any adverse effects. Purists would object!

Colin

Some (at least) of RHD Fulvia Series 1 idler boxes have a grease nipple but not the steering box, so it's oil in the steering box and grease in the idler with "Fay" with no apparent ill effects, I did wonder if it was only on the idler box for convenience sake, as otherwise it would mean removing the battery tray to get at the idler filler, whereas the filler on the steering box is relatively easy to get at, anyone know if the same applied on LHD cars as the boxes and battery tray would be transposed so my reasoning  ???would still apply?
Has anyone used grease in the Fulvia steering box & if so what do they use?
Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: johnturner on 09 March, 2008, 02:11:24 PM
Mr Lancia says you should oil and I think he's right. Grease doesn't work and the Penrite so called steering box oil doesn't flow unless its hot, but to avoid oil leaking all over the garage floor it is a good idea to fit modern lip seals in place of the tallow and string packing originally fitted.  Mr Lancia recommends Mobiloil CC which translates as 240 grade, popularly known as 'steam cylinder oil' which is still available from Morris at Shrewsbury and probably other oil companies. 

If you have got the shaft out of the box you should take care reassembling it.  As I recall, the housing for the rollers is eccentric which allows some adjustment between the worm and wheel. It is very tempting to take up any play, but beware.  The wear occurs mainly at the dead ahead position which means that if you close it up the clearance at either end disappears and this may not be discovered until you are going down the Stelvio when the box seizes on full lock and you find yourself going round and round in very small circles. I suspect that the adjustment was provided not to take up wear but simply to allow the box to be properly set up when it was first assembled. This may be common knowledge and I may be the only one daft enough to have wanted to fiddle with it.


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 09 March, 2008, 07:55:24 PM
Having been told its adjustable all becomes clear. 

Here's a photo of the end of the box where the drop arm goes.  Inside the hole in the casting is a machined steel liner.  In the perimeter of that liner are a number of grooves that, end on, look like "half holes".   One of these "half holes" will be aligned with the "half pin" in the end cover to prevent the sleeve turning.  The photo isn't as clear as I'd like - the half pin is at the nine o-clock position.

For completeness a photo of the outside of that end cover with what I thought was a felt seal.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 30 April, 2009, 09:34:29 AM
A tiny bit of progress reported on Chugga's thread.

http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1259.90

Seat set was free - fronts fit well enough, rears can be narrowed, easy enough to recolour and will do until the original seats become the priority.  Not working to Cundy Standards here!!

Riley wing set sold on ebay - got sufficent elbow room for some sneaky wire brushing sessions.

Ultrasonic cleaning bath unearthed and sitting next to a pile of dirty engine bits.

David



Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 30 April, 2009, 09:38:31 AM

We're out of sequence here - but the wheels got painted before the car was extracted from its tomb. 

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 30 April, 2009, 10:02:23 AM

The tyres are MOT failure Aurelia 165x400s.  Fine to roll about on for now.  Hardly the priority at the moment, and a lot could change between now and when it becomes so.

As the VSCC don't like radials one of the early ideas was to re-rim at 18ins for some Michellin DRs or Blockleys with a similar rolling radius to the "Super Comfort" SCSS baloons.   

When I looked a year ago the supply of SCSS was good again, and the prices not outragous, and its a distinctive tread pattern, and with the Bibendum rims an unusal feature was leaning back to the original fittment.

Just looked today and the DR price has gone up a bit of late, SCSS less so.  Blockley still look good value, and another option since I last looked is the 5.50x16.   That feels wide for such a little car, but the 165s don't look out of place...

When the time comes it will be "horses for courses" from the options on the day.

Meanwhile these two heard that running a tyre depot with space in the corner to restore a car isn't a bad way to live.  Do they get a job for half term Chugga?
 
David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: chugga boom on 30 April, 2009, 12:15:35 PM
i like your thinking START THEM YOUNG!!! :D


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: Dilambdaman on 30 April, 2009, 11:30:32 PM
David,

The Michelin DR is a lovely tyre both in looks and ride but expensive (£100 each more for the Dilambda) and I'm reliably informed that they do around a third of the mileage that you get with a Blockley which are just as period looking.

Robin


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 22 May, 2009, 09:15:53 AM
PROPER WINGS !!

These are ex-James Parry and of course before the kettle went on I had them propped in place and the grill unhooked from the wall.

The trick was to look from an angle where something else got in the way so it wasn't just a third of a car but a third of a car peeping out.

Lights are in a box somewhere in the loft...  Tempting to make up a number plate to hang from the track rod.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: chugga boom on 22 May, 2009, 11:41:41 AM
amazing how different the car looks with wings on isnt it!!, glad your pleased with them, keep us all posted with your progress jp


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: JohnMillham on 23 May, 2009, 07:49:11 AM
I prefer the shape of the early wings to the later ones. Shame you can't find an early grille to go with them. It's good to see some progress.
Regards, John


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 23 May, 2009, 09:00:22 AM

I think I've found an early grill - keep your fingers crossed for me...

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 23 May, 2009, 08:44:55 PM
Got the lights on in just a couple of hours late afternoon.   

The box of lucas repros had been sitting there for perhaps fifteen years having been bought for a project I started but passed on when the Augusta arrived.   A stroke of luck was that the Lucas 1130 sidelights were exactly what James had on his car.

The "proper" headlights I have need a lot of work, so I removed the "ice cream cones" from them something of a struggle, even with a plate to clamp them firm.  My second stroke of luck was that the MUCH larger Lucas bolts JUST fitted.

Spotted the mistake with the rubber?   The first one had a much larger middle hole and for the second I thought just enough for the wires and keep the road muck out.  The problem is there's no way to reach the bolt to adjust the lamps.   They'll be on and off a few times before that matters so "next time" I'll cut the larger hole...

Spotted the problem with the ice cream cones?   They are not a pair, so one has a hole in the front for wires and one in the back.  The plan is to weld both holes up and run the wires under the wings.

The headlights are Lucas SS700 shells and PL700 inners.  Not what I'd choose today but "they were just sitting there" and will do to get passed the MOT man and see where I'm going.   One cunning plan is to remove the glasses from a cheap set of units and bond on flat perspex with a print of the Bosch pattern.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 23 May, 2009, 09:06:22 PM
http://www.s-v-c.co.uk/lights_head.html

Am thinking the budget 7in, cut the lense off and replace with flat glass with the Bosch pattern printed on.  There's an option to have the sidelight in the headlight so the wing mounted can be the indicator.

At John Turner's the other day we looked at a 30 year history of headlights for his car - and my quest is to find what he believes to be a Golf Mk1 bulb retainer clip so he can mount some lights with proper Bosch glasses bonded on.  There's some modern looking units on the car, but its not clear why they replaced the ones with the lenses bonded on.   He also has the obligatory "will get round to restoring them one day" lights.

Has everyone else got "real lights" - or are there some artful dodges out there?

Looking at my photos I noticed the March Augusta mounts the lights direct to the wing without cones, and all sorts of side light variations.  I also think my lights (or perhaps one of them) came off the Airline Saloon also at Goodwood given the colour match - I bet a fair bit of cross polination goes on as with my wings being ex-James Parry and am sure ex a few other cars as well along the way.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: Running Board on 24 May, 2009, 10:09:33 PM
I would not advise plain glass/Perspex David: you'll get an atrocious beam pattern.  The original glasses for both Lucas and Bosch lamps were especially designed to match the reflectors, the glasses having a "pattern" which was actually a series of prisms, each refracting the light and the whole giving the total beam pattern. 

For one of my Aurelia B20s, I tried Lucas reflectors/halogen lamps mated to the original Carello glasses and the beam patterns were awful (possibly the reflector's focal length was incorrect for the glasses?). 

When I was trying to complete my Augusta many years ago, I couldn't find any Bosch lamps for sale and the originals were tatty and incomplete, so I bought a pair of very similar Carellos in Italy.  These are of FIAT origin - Ardita or possibly Ballila and are slightly larger than the Bosch lamps.  I've welded up the sidelamp tell-tales and adapted the shells to fit the Bosch/Lancia pedestals, then fitted 6V halogen lamps which, together with beefed up cable sizes and earth returns, give excellent lighting. 


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 24 May, 2009, 10:38:22 PM
In a parts swap with Ron I got some Cibies, about 8ins, he thinks off a French made Ballilia.  They're in a box with some other bits and bobs waiting to be collected.

This evening I clipped the battery charger earth onto a headlamp shell, bridged to the other with a steel rod, and had some fun turning the lights on and off.  Its a good clear beam for sure.  The look of the tripod lucas is growing on me.

The sidelights are dual filament and the bright is plenty brighter than the normal to use as indicators.

With flat glass I don't expect the greatest lighting but it can work.   My Austin 7 special has flat perspex in shells made from large scale radio control aircraft prop spinners - very lightweight, and not a bad light to drive by and a good enough pattern for the MOT man.  The reflectors were 2CV.

Horses for courses - and as yet I don't know what course so can ponder all the options.  Thinking about it seeing the variety John Turner's car has had somewhat sparked this thread as well.

What are the sidelights on your car?   Were they factory or put on at Alperton or a later addition?

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: johnturner on 24 May, 2009, 10:40:04 PM
I reckon that when they came out of the factory all of the cars, including the chassis on which the March cars were built, would have had the headlights mounted on cones and none would have had separate side lights.  The side lights originally fitted within the case of the Bosch headlight were too far from the edge of the body to satisfy UK regulations and so Alperton fitted the type of separate side light that appears on Mike Wheeler's March car.  They must have had a very large box of these since the same sidelights were fitted to other cars including the later Lambdas.  Earlier Lambdas had torpedo sidelights made by, or copied from, the similar CAV light but labelled CAC (Curtis Automobile Company)  Other types of side light would have been fitted by people who imported used cars.


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 24 May, 2009, 10:44:30 PM
Checked all my notes pretty sure its cibies not carellos but have never seen "old" cibies.  Just did a google and turned up this.  Quite a distinct "cone" shape rather than the "bullet" or "bowl".

http://truck-n-a.com/1932_Fiat_508_Balilla_Spyde.html

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: donw on 25 May, 2009, 04:47:57 PM
The side lights on the "Airline" by which I think you mean the John Charles ( green with blck wings) are non original but are lucas style torpedoes fitted when I restored the car.  John is correct that Alperton fitted wing mounted side lights to comply with UK contruction & use regulations.  I think the wymann style with a white front and rear red lense as mainly fitted by Alperton look best, they some times turn up at autojumbles.

Belnas where fitted with CIBIE lights which would be perfectly ok for you special.

Don


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 25 May, 2009, 06:21:50 PM

Don - I was wondering if the green on my headlight was the same as the green on the John Charles - those lights came from you some time back and wasn't it you that restored that car?   

===

For the back I've a pair of "pork pies", Lucas ST38 in black with I think the correct bulbs to do the tail, stop, and indicators.   Could be either one each side of a rectangular number plate or above a square number plate one side and a GB plate the other as Morris Parry has.

http://www.s-v-c.co.uk/prod/ST38.html




Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: Running Board on 25 May, 2009, 07:51:33 PM
My car originally seems to have had small Lucas sidelamps (only one remained!) identical to those that James has just fitted to YS, also to those on the Alperton press photo.  However, having only one, I looked for replacements and, failing to find any, have used those "period" ex-WD types (don't know the manufacturer) which are identical to those on the late-pattern wing you provided for James. 

My Carellos are not as old as those on the link you provided: I'll try to get a better photo for you, but suffice it to say for the time being that they are almost exactly the same shape/profile/construction as the Bosch lamps, but are in between the Augusta 180mm and Astura 200mm sizes! 

My Belna has torpedo headlamps (I think Marchal) with heavily domed lenses, similar to those used on the Citroen Traction 11CV.  All this goes to show what a great local input was put into these old cars both in the UK and in France. 

Both the Bosch (180mm Augusta and 200mm Artena/Astura) and the Carello (Ardita) lights give superb lighting patterns when fitted with the intended lamps or even with halogen replacements.  All that matters is the filament positions with respect to the reflector.  At this time, when these manufacturers were using twin-filament dipping lamps, Joe Lucas (King of The Road - sorry - Prince of Darkness) was still fiddling about with single filaments and a dipping reflector for the nearside light, the offside one turning off completely on dip! 

If I were you David, I would hook up each of your lamps to a battery in turn and try them against a brick wall at 10 to 20ft just to see what sort of patterns result, then decide.  As Don hinted, anything is really acceptable in terms of appearance.  Its the light output wot matters!  Whatever you use, it will be your personal choice and will form part of the history of the car (which is one reason why I have no intention of changing USK's Carellos for Bosch). 


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: johnturner on 25 May, 2009, 08:15:28 PM
I agree with Morris. I think we get too excited about what is supposed to be original (and I am as bad as anybody) and forget that when these cars were new there was a discretion available to owners which just doesn't exist in the way cars are built now.  So people cheerfully ordered and fitted different lamps, wheels and whatnots and these became a part of the particular car's identity.  I feel a bit guilty about undoing all the work that John Hinchliffe did on Christine's car to return iit not so much to original as to the state in which we parted with it twenty five years ago. 


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 25 May, 2009, 09:39:18 PM

Its fun to ponder the options - and an education to know what the cars had from new, and why, and what they've had over the years, and why.

The rear lamps I have will go on the car.  I bought them for another project but they look right enough and I won't be alone using them.  However its still of interest to know the various rear light stories.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 25 May, 2009, 09:46:27 PM

...as for Morris's point sometimes lights are more for looking at than with...   

Again horses for courses, and its rare I'm on a road that isn't street lit.  Living in SE13 its quite a drive to even find an unlit back road.   However I'd not drive a car without indicators having come SOOO close to being rear-ended in the Austin waiting to turn right.   About the first job I did on the Aurelia was door mirrors and some high level indicators and brake lights in the back window.   

The tripod Lucas lights are growing on me.  The design must be 60 years old.  These days just a simple round light like on the MG Midget is unusual and old fashioned, and I'm told being able to change a bulb without 250quid to the dealer is very old-school as well.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 31 May, 2009, 09:55:33 PM

Call it testing, call it inspiration, call it a bit of fun. 

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: rogerelias on 01 June, 2009, 09:19:12 AM
WHOAA. SPOOKY :o IT'LL NEVER FLY ;D


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 10 June, 2009, 10:18:22 PM

Took a couple of days elapsed as it it typically only lifted a single layer of paint.  The stuff is safe on aluminium, water based, and other than a bleach pretty mild stuff.

There's a bit of corrosion on the bonnet but nothing that a bit of wet and dry wouldn't fix.  Next step with it is to get the trims and the dome stud things off to strip the paint below and scrub the corrosion.   

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 10 June, 2009, 10:19:51 PM
A pic of it all done and some links.

David

http://www.paint-stripper.co.uk/
http://www.paint-stripper.co.uk/graphics/sara-animation.swf


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 10 June, 2009, 10:22:37 PM

With such long evenings I was able to go back and forth with easing oils and various sockets and spanners and pull the first couple of bits off the firewall.

Fingers on buzzers - and I want full and complete answers - what are these items?   

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: fay66 on 11 June, 2009, 12:23:29 AM

Took a couple of days elapsed as it it typically only lifted a single layer of paint.  The stuff is safe on aluminium, water based, and other than a bleach pretty mild stuff.

There's a bit of corrosion on the bonnet but nothing that a bit of wet and dry wouldn't fix.  Next step with it is to get the trims and the dome stud things off to strip the paint below and scrub the corrosion.   

David

No doubt the lady of the house is wondering "where the heck did I put my Marigolds" ;D

First object in the quiz seems to be a brake fluid resevoir going by the colour of the remains of the fluid, unless you have hydraulic shockers, as for the other item? WTF?

Looks satisfying work and coming along nicely.

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 11 June, 2009, 08:42:32 AM

The first item IS the brake fluid reservoir.  The top of lid had rusted and fell to bits trying to unscrew it.  The threaded bit is still in position above a thick washer. 

I'm not sure what the other item is myself.  I've got a guess somewhat based on where it was but no more clues at this point or I'll spoil the game for the others.

Its archeology at this point - the last time I was stripping bits I found a bizzarely routed control cable that turned out to be the mechanical drive from the fuel sender in the rear mounted tank forwards and round and under the dash to the clock.   There's all sorts of holes and fittings to identify, and a 90pct complete peddle mechanism to extract and restore.   All good fun.  Have also given the chassis a first tickle with a random orbit sander, another task for the "little and often" approach.

The bonnet now opening easily is enabling this work.  If I've got a little time of an evening its not a wrestling match to have a peep, spray some oil, have a ponder, fish out some spanners and sockets to try.  Of course the fluid reservoir didn't have the same size bolts left and right.

Something else with the bonnet is that the acoustic has changed - it sounds completely different to open and close and the louvres are musical to wipe down.  It also makes me ponder keeping James' wing colour, alloy bonnet, and a dark blue fabric body.   

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 11 June, 2009, 08:49:27 AM

Another "spot" from the photo is the credit card sized hotel loyalty card - it was memory lane digging out the big wallet with all of those and the airmiles and airport lounge cards.  A previous life...  Mentioned this to a friend who is now applying for every credit card he gets sent to build up a supply for paint stripping. 

Some delaminate rather easily - anyone experiance of "good" and "bad" credit cards?   Am remembering a thread on cola for rust eating / thread easing, was it supermarket own brand diet that won that test?   My little sister knows the best price-performance on beer for slug traps.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: sparehead3 on 11 June, 2009, 10:57:01 AM
*Tesco value bitter - 99p for four cans !


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: ncundy on 11 June, 2009, 11:39:40 AM
Any slug that could drink four cans of that would get my vote!

Looks like fun David: Alka Seltzer is another way of getting rid of rust I believe.


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: JohnMillham on 11 June, 2009, 01:17:02 PM
Quite correct - it's the brake fluid reservoir. The other thing is the brake light switch. I'm surprised it wasn't obvious. i'm glad to see progress being made. There was a good turn-out of Augustas and Belnas on the SPR this year, so why not aim to have your one ready for the next SPR?
Regards, John


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 11 June, 2009, 02:32:45 PM

I found a supplier for the reservoir, and its a stock item so "as and when" should thoughts of soldering a thinners tin lid onto the old one come to nought. 

http://www.powertrackbrakes.co.uk/

The switch is siezed but might be recoverable, if not its hardly an "in your face" item to substitute.

http://www.holden.co.uk/displayproduct.asp?sg=&pgCode=020&sgName=Electrical&pgName=Switches&agCode=0535&agName=Brake+Light+Switches&pCode=31281

http://www.holden.co.uk/displayproduct.asp?sg=&pgCode=020&sgName=Electrical&pgName=Switches&agCode=0535&agName=Brake+Light+Switches&pCode=020.238

As for "when will it be done" I'm a big fan of the rolling restoration - so it will be thrown togeather ASAP then improved over time.  There's all the "easier to do it right first time" arguments but I can remember the Austin 7 took a year to build but only a long afternoon to take to bits, move through the house, and assemble in the street out front.   So much of the joy of cars like this is how easily they can come apart and go back togeather.   

I've got some "they will do" seats, fingers crossed the engine "will do", brakes and steering ARE worth some care, axles "we'll wait and see", a basic "trials tub" body can almost be a throw away item.   Metalwork-wise the front axle needs to be well anchored, there's some chassis repairs to do,  and I may as well make a proper job of floors.  However the rear wings could have Mk1 and Mk2 versions.   I'd like a proper replica petrol tank but again that's something were there might be a stop gap, a couple of tanks have been and gone for trial fittings already.  Over time can improve with a better body, a full width folding screen, hood and side screens, restore the original seats and so on.

The important battle is to keep momentum...

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 11 June, 2009, 02:37:56 PM

The other news is that there's an early type rad shell on the way  ;D

I've a third light to fit and the bumper mounts look ideal for a couple of legs.  Number plate on the steering track arm next to the badges. 

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: donw on 11 June, 2009, 05:32:41 PM
David
just catching up! Yes I restored the John Charles, the headlight that is green came from a batch of parts I bought years ago which were the remaining bits from a March which had been broken many years ago.

Don


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: JohnMillham on 11 June, 2009, 08:19:37 PM

 Number plate on the steering track arm next to the badges. 

That's not a good idea, as it can cause a lot of agro if it gets hit by a stone and becomes horizontal. It would result in no steering in one or other direction as the plate hits the radiator shell. I don't like seeing badges on track rods, for the same reason. A simple bracket using the holes for fitting bumpers is to be preferred. See my Augusta at the AGM for a simple design.
 Regards, John


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 11 June, 2009, 10:12:12 PM

You're a life saver!!   

Another good nights tinkering - accelerator mechanism removed, and what a lovely thing.  Brake line "junction" removed, and got the bolts out the master cylinder and its out its housing but still attached to the peddle.  At least the peddle now moves.   Also got the hollow bolts out the fire wall that I assume carry the hand throttle and choke cables.

In terms of the brake light switch being a bit of a mystery the reason is that there's another one on the car.  Looking at it it is obviously a later addition - the mounting bolts are too long, there's a lever that is obviously home made, the link has a number of holes where its been fine tuned.   That one is also siezed.

Am hoping to make my first ever AGM but its a big negotiation round the family calendar.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 15 June, 2009, 10:18:08 PM

Picture of the other brake light switch - clearly a later addition.   

Scuttle came out having sheared the bolts.   The frame from the door pillar back to the chassis unbolted with the long extension.  The front seat frame needed a chisel to get the screw heads off.  The rear seat base support was hanging on by threads so not much work with the chisel to have that off as well.

Found some shreds of carpet on the tunnel and the screws in the middle of the seat frame throught to the tunnel didn't look factory - is it really just four screws that hold the two front seats to the chassis?

The rear x-member weighs nothing.  In fact v.impressed at how light the thing is made.

Once have had another measure up the tunnel and the rest of the floor comes out.  Will trim the bottom third off the foot board as well to tidy up.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 15 June, 2009, 10:22:29 PM

...and a couple more...

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 15 June, 2009, 10:31:04 PM

How different is this to what's under a saloon?

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 16 June, 2009, 08:56:31 AM

How I'd love to say "and here's how far I got last night".

I found these for a compare and contrast with a saloon but am remembering something in Viva Lancia when there had been a "probably used in the Mille Miglia" type story about a special and the author had said that aside from all the other mumbo jumbo round the car they'd looked it over and could tell it was originally a saloon not a platform chassis.

Alas I can't now make the AGM - but am hoping the March will be in the Prescot Orchard early August (it usually is) to take some "spy photos" of chassis, tank, under bonnet.  I wish I'd had more time when I saw the March and John Charles at Goodwood.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: ColinMarr on 16 June, 2009, 05:50:20 PM
I suppose I should be careful confessing going around taking photos of the underneath other people’s motor cars! I’ll try not to make a habit of it.

No prizes for distinguishing between Augusta and Aprilia in these photos:



Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 16 June, 2009, 06:24:08 PM

The conclusion I've come to (so far...) is that the platform chassis changes permit the rear passenges to sit lower and further forwards.  This is by having rear passenger feet in "roasting trays" in the floor below the front seats.

Looks like the rear springs attach differently as well, again I suspect a lower floor was the objective.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 16 June, 2009, 06:33:57 PM

...but as always no hard and fast rules...?

I think all these differ  ::)

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: chugga boom on 16 June, 2009, 07:35:10 PM
good to see progress, keep up the good work, i think all this has set my dad off , he's started his belna!!! i blame YOU! :D


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 18 June, 2009, 03:48:19 PM

Measurements please!!

What is the clearance for the rear wheels?   I can work out space above the tyre based on the position of the bump stops but its harder to assess how much side to side movement. 

I'd be interested in tyre to inner arch clearance, or rim to inner arch clearance, or from the edge of the mudguard to inner arch, or rear seat width.  Anything you could easily do would be of interest.

As an aside I've got 3ins rim to chassis one side, and 3.5ins rim to chassis the other.  Yet to swap the wheels left right and remeasure.   Am also intending to get one tyre up on blocks to the extent the other side is in the air, measure how far it tilts inwards, and push down on the airborn wheel to see how far extra it might droop in a dynamic situation.

There's another question - did they ever have check straps to control maximum droop?

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 21 June, 2009, 10:07:54 PM

Am loving these long, warm, light evenings.  Its not that I get more than 20-30mins at a time but two such sessions and it feels like I've turned a corner with it.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 21 June, 2009, 10:12:49 PM

The underside of the tunnel was interesting.  There's a structure to beef up the handbrake mount and, I'm assuming, to hang the end of the gearbox. 

One mystery is up near the foot board where there's a pair of slits.  First instinct is that the factory put them in but I can't imagine what they were for.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 21 June, 2009, 10:19:07 PM

The other mystery, and rather more important to fathom, is how the rear end goes togeather.   The little castings integral with the rear spring mounts I assume take the bumpers, but they could as easily be body mounts.   The stuff on the centre line I would have assumed was to do with the spare wheel mounting if the spare wasn't mounted direct to the boot lid.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: chugga boom on 22 June, 2009, 08:03:15 PM
looking good!! keep the pics coming good to see ;)


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: JohnMillham on 22 June, 2009, 09:19:32 PM
The small holes each side of the propshaft tunnel are to accommodate the long bolt which holds up the rear of the gearbox. It goes through a tube which in turn is inside a Silentbloc bush which is clamped to the gearbox. Mine was completely lacking any rubber, so I modified the arrangement like others have done and now have rather fewer vibrations! I'll try to attach a drawing or photo. The little castings integral with the rear spring mounts do indeed hold the bumpers and the number plate support and the rear corners of the boot floor. It was usual for the convertibles to have their spare wheels mounted on the boot lid, but some of the special bodies, like the March, had them elsewhere. I have just noticed that my boot lid might soon need some attention, as the wheels aren't as ridgidly supported as they might be.
 Keep up the good work!
 Regards, John


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 22 June, 2009, 10:31:06 PM

Does an Aprilia have a similar sort of internal structure in the tunnel to support the tail of the gearbox?

The open question is what these slits are...   I saw one and thought it was damage, I saw the same slit in the same position on the other side and think "there must be a reason".  They could have been put in by the factory, they could be a dealer mod, they could be a DIY thing, it could just be damage.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: JohnMillham on 23 June, 2009, 08:43:17 AM
Looks like damage to me. I can't think of any reason for needing the slits. That part of the propshaft tunnel is usually covered by a rubber mat.
 I can't remember how the Aprilia's gearbox is supported, but it's a lot shorter than the Augusta's, so you probably won't be able to use the same system.


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 23 June, 2009, 10:17:50 AM

My hope is the same system, but in a different place.  The alternative is "more chassis" in the same way as the peddles and brake master are supported.   Yet to see where the gear lever falls.  My hope is an extension is enough and put up with a longer throw, but of course then an issue with handbrake placement and tangles with knees etc etc.  All part of the fun!!

Anyone know if the Aprilia has the same "double skin" structure inside the tunnel or does the way the Aprilia power pack is mounted demand more?

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 23 June, 2009, 01:23:42 PM

Seemed strange having the identical damage each side of the tunnel.  All I could think was if the slots were for clips or a sling to support the box on a clutch change...  Would have to be sharp buckles on someone's shoes to make the slots.

Yesterday I had a go with a 40grit disk in the random orbit and a wire brush in a drill.  Nice to see a gleam in a few areas even if the majority is moonscape.   Sizing up the damage to the main rails am having to tell myself "letting in big sections is less work than strings of small repairs".

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: fay66 on 23 June, 2009, 06:12:14 PM

The underside of the tunnel was interesting.  There's a structure to beef up the handbrake mount and, I'm assuming, to hang the end of the gearbox. 

One mystery is up near the foot board where there's a pair of slits.  First instinct is that the factory put them in but I can't imagine what they were for.

David

Looks more like the slot that was created by a cold chisel or bolster going by how the edges are turned in, but a bit of a crude way to make a slot, and certainly doesn't look like anything that would have been created by a power press.

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 28 June, 2009, 08:23:58 PM

Handbrake came off the tunnel a couple of days ago.  After a soak the pulley and its "halter" came free which gave the clearance to get the ratchet "rack" off.  Rest of it still seized so will give it a week of soaking before inflicting more torture.  The pawl/tooth end seems to move a little, the button end nothing.  There's a screw I'm guessing clamps the lever to its shaft, am pondering drilling that screw out so I can deal with the lever/button/rod/pawl away from the casting.

Photos to follow.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: donw on 29 June, 2009, 04:35:15 PM
David

If you end up needing a "spare" hand brake unit I am sure I saw one in my spares loft on the recent search for the elusive rad shell!

Don


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 13 July, 2009, 08:38:54 AM

Lovely to put some names to faces yesterday, and another batch of "spy photos". 

I tried the rad shell last night and the front of the chassis IS different.   Looking at the early car yesterday, peeping through the lower grill, I suspected as much and crossed my fingers its wasn't significant but it really doesn't fit.   There would be ways to make it fit given no option: the "obvious" ones are to move it an inch forwards or modify the bottom of the shell.  However I do have an option and the decision now is to use the late type shell and grill.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained - and whatever the outcome it was going to be "one on the car, one on the wall" anyway...

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: johnturner on 14 July, 2009, 06:47:16 PM
I'm surprised it doesn't fit.  I have seen a number of late Augustas going around with the earlier radiator shell, and you could try David Tipper (dhtethome@waitrose.com) who has one such to see how its done.


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 14 July, 2009, 09:53:11 PM

I'll try again with the rad shell in proper daylight before it goes on the hook.

A little progress today.  Got a fair bit of wire brushing done a week or so back, and then watched it all go bright orange.  Today I loaded my jam jars with degreaser and rust eater and brushed one side of the dash top/scuttle, degreased and scrubbed, and got the rust eater on.  It dries to quite a nice satin black so is giving me a sniff as to what it will be like painted.   Am using the bilthamber Hydrate80 after SurfexHD at 30pct. 

http://www.bilthamber.com/

After another coat of Hydrate80 it will be Electrox zinc rich primer then Dulux trade gloss black top coats. 

There will be no filling, and am painting the chassis before repairs to "stop the rot" and cheer the thing up.  Some of it will need repainting after repairs, and I will have to wire brush back paint I've applied near the areas to repair.  Its not the ideal way to do it, but its not being done in ideal circumstances and I am not, as the saying goes, in the mood "to let perfection be the enemy of the good".
   
As the only way its going to get done at all is in little nibbles I've got to compromise on quality and accept rework.   Brushes are sitting in water both to be right ready to go the next time the window of opportunity opens and to cut the clean up time from minimum time requirement for a session.  If I have a dry half hour in daylight when I'm able to make noise I can progress.

Handbrake had a couple of wallops and another soak.  The "tooth" moves easily, the button still properly stuck as is the main pivot.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 26 July, 2009, 10:24:19 PM

Photos of the derusting process.  Have now got the dash top, scuttle top, and top half of the firewall done.   That's just about enough to get the zinc paint out for but am tempted to do the front flanks, engine bay, and nose piece first.

The supplier said to be sure I degreased properly, hence the tooth and washing up brushes.  I also rinse with water and a dish cloth before the rust killer goes on and on the final wipe down with kitchen paper the paper stays clean.   Could argue not really necessary, and tests on "fluffy" bits of the chassis have shown that just slapping it on the end result is all but the same but I do want it to last and the extra steps don't add all that much time.

Had a "daylight look at the early rad shell and it really doesn't want to fit.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 30 July, 2009, 08:35:30 PM

Clutch peddle and brake master cylinder came off tonight.  The clutch peddle was a job of moments, the brake master a fiddle even without afloor or engine in the way.

The peddle shaft is well siezed: the clamp bolt on the bracket came out easily, the split pin came out easily from the collar that locates the brake peddle, but a big wallop didn't move the saft sideways at all.  Its dripping in WD40 and at least with the brake peddle moving on the shaft now and the clutch peddle removed its got a better chance to soak in.  The brake peddle will float a little left right so able to soak down both sides of that as well as in from the brake peddle end of the shaft.  WD40 and time hasn't failed me yet...

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: donw on 30 July, 2009, 10:25:27 PM
David

The best freeing agent I have found to be Coka Cola, 24 hours imersion derusts and frees almost anything.  Makes you wonder why anyone would drink the stuff!

Don.


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: fay66 on 31 July, 2009, 12:11:39 AM
Don,
Is that the original or does diet work as well ???

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: rogerelias on 31 July, 2009, 07:35:54 AM
Diet coke is more suited to thin parts ::)


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 31 July, 2009, 08:53:58 AM

I looked at the picture of the handbrake - its just a button and a spring in the top.  Its still stuck so the next step is a dunking in cola.  I've got "derust bath concentrate" and also a small ultrasonic tank so they are the back up if the cola doesn't do it.  After that its snip the rod, hammer or drill out the button, and remake the parts.

The brake crossshaft needs a week of soaking before "special treatment".  Its only just occured to me that I could make a bath round it with gaffer tape and bits of milk carton for a coke soak.   Again, if it comes to it, a peddle cross shaft is just a shaft so no big deal to remake if I need to get brutal.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: fay66 on 31 July, 2009, 10:52:48 AM
Diet coke is more suited to thin parts ::)

Ha B----y Ha ;D

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: donw on 31 July, 2009, 11:59:56 AM
Havnt tried Diet Coke but generally use out of date cans.

David if all else fails with the handbrake I have a "spare".

Don


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 11 August, 2009, 09:28:49 AM

Turned a corner - all the "front" metal has been brushed, cleaned, and two coats of rust killer.  Might get some zinc primer on it today.  The "back" being the conventional rails and cross members needs a noisy session with the angle grinder to clean up remains of welds and some jagged edges of floor pans etc before I start on that.   Its trickier shapes, harder to reach in, but from the small bits I've tried it shouldn't take all that long. 

How good will it be to look at a stripped and painted chassis?   Then the repairs...but isolated repairs...to an otherwise clean and good chassis that I've been over inch by inch.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 13 August, 2009, 01:11:29 PM

Front "half" of the car is now painted in the zinc rich primer.

I'm not as cheery as I expected to be as the paint was so thick I wondered if a trowel might be more appropriate than a brush.  It was a pig to put on, a real slap-slap-slap race to keep anything of a wet edge and it couldn't be brushed out or tipped off or anything like so the surface is like a ploughed field. 

It also NOW turns out, in the cruel way it so often does, that putting the zinc paint over the rusteater was somewhat futile as the rust eating "Hydrate 80" electrically insulates the steel from the "Electrox" zinc rich primer.  I went looking for application tips on the web and stumbled on a forum response from Bilt Hamber than contradicted (my understanding of) their advice to me by phone some months prior.  For the Electrox to work you need bright metal with craters less than 5mm.  The Hydrate 80 will go onto rust or a brown/black surface but then may as well apply then apply over it a conventional (smooth flowing flat drying easy rubbing...) primer.

SO - the plan NOW for the chassis rails is to get some bright to show and apply Electrox.  The consolation is that the front is 99pct "top sides" that won't get regular damage and require the same rust "prevention" of the chassis.  "Containment" should be sufficient.

At least the Electrox is classed as a top coat which has me sleeping better - for all I prefered looking at the thin coat of satin black it had before.   I wonder if I'll be able to resist rubbing down and top coating what I've done at the front before attacking the chassis rails?   It would be quiet evening work, and would lift the spirits and recover it to (my) acceptable standard.

Photos to follow.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 13 August, 2009, 01:15:14 PM

Common sense says to ignor the surface quality until after the welding is done and the new engine mounts and so on are fitted and THEN make a nice job of it with the dulux primer and top coat.  But what does "common sense" have to do with any of this?

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: fay66 on 13 August, 2009, 01:53:55 PM
David,
What does "Common Sense" have to do with owning any Lancia!

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 02 September, 2009, 08:27:46 PM

Am getting used to the front end in grey, helped by the paint looking a lot better for a second coat.   

I was able to resist the black gloss and instead have focused on the back end.   Several noisy hours with the angle grinder shifted the last of the twisted tin, stray bolts, clips for the loom etc. 

The castings where the handbrake cable terminates put up less of a fight than anticipated - one side unscrewed having ground the backs off (they are posh self tappers), the other side I punched out from the rear then hammered back the distortion.

One side rail exterior is now zinc grey applied to bright metal.  Much of the rest has had a quick once over with the rust eater almost as a holding coat as no idea when will get time to wire brush, sand, and paint.   Am also thinking that rust eater in the pits is better than rust.

A side effect of the work is that the less protrusions and the cleaner the finish the easier it is to imagine the rest of it.

David 


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 02 October, 2009, 07:37:48 PM

Nearly done with the derust and prime.  The "inside" of the chassis to finish, and yet to do anything in the footwells and under the dash but into the home straight now.

Also a lovely Bosch horn in the post and it sounds as good as it looks.  It reminded me of Road Runner being chased by Wile-E-Coyote.  It now has pride of place alongside the instruments in a display cabinet.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: chugga boom on 03 October, 2009, 07:48:17 AM
yep, definatly an improvement  :) looking good keep up the hard work


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 06 October, 2009, 11:33:55 PM

Its not a "critical path" sort of job but the easiest way to tidy the garage was to bolt the wings on.  Also found some bolts for the rad shell and grill.  Interesting checking fits etc.  The worst is the drivers side light which might be adjustable or might be because I've got two "left" pilliars so that one is back to front.  Its given me a a set of photos to trace over.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 06 October, 2009, 11:37:02 PM

One colour combo I've been pondering is to leave the wings as is, leave the bonnet in alloy, then dark blue for the body perhaps fabric.

Red tempts but it will depend on how the proportions come out.

Could do the whole car to match those wings.

Dark blue is an obvious choice, and could cheer it up with a red interior.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 07 October, 2009, 11:25:56 AM

These photos were March 2008.  Paint stripped off the bonnet and the wings sold to pay for Chugga's cast offs.  It would have been a LOT of work to make either the "too big" or "too small" front wings fit, and the Riley wings look like - well - Riley wings...  Would have restricted the excellent Augusta steering lock as well.

The one feature I did like on that set was the shape to the trailing edge of the rear wings - but those rear wings were SO slab sided relative to the Touring and Zagato Alfas I can never take my eyes off.

Plan at the rear is to buy some truck muguards.  They might only be for mocking up, maybe I'll be able to cut and shut into something I'm happy with to "get me started".   

http://www.featherwing.com/

Bought this DVD (link below) - inspiring stuff - but brings home what a lot of work is involved.  As with the interior the inclination is to put in a stop gap then come back later and "make a project" of getting it just how I want it later on.  I want to be driving!!

http://www.frost.co.uk/item_Detail.asp?productID=9604&frostProductName=Scratch-Building%20a%20Fender%20DVD%20(119%20min)%20&catID=30&frostCat=Books%20and%20DVDs&frostSubCat=&subCatID=

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 07 October, 2009, 11:32:39 AM
...and the sketch from Jan 2008...  

I see the next steps as mocking up seats, including a proper usable adult sized back seat, take some more photos to trace over (including the different front wings from Jan 08), then "styling" round that space requirement.  

Another requirement is zero additional rear overhang to give a good exit angle for trials. 

Am happy to strap luggage on the back or running boards for occasions when the back seat isn't the luggage compartment, and also for the hood to be "a tent" that comes apart and is stowed rather than flipped up and down.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 07 October, 2009, 11:41:37 AM

Looking at the March 2008 "before" pictures can also see the front seat bases, bits of boot floor, and various bits of running board support. 

Its slow going, but it is progress.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: ColinMarr on 02 December, 2009, 02:04:42 PM
David,

Under a different heading you asked:

“Looking ahead (getting my motivation up for the project) can anyone reassure me that a hot Aprilia engine will snarl?   With  light body on it it should have some pace, the gear change and steering and brakes should be fabulous, the balance shouldn't be too bad and on thin enough tyres it should be possible to squirt it about but how will it sound...?   Hot Fulvias and Appias sound lovely - is there a fundamental difference?”

Assuming you going to use a straight-through exhaust with minimum by way of baffles, I wouldn’t expect it to snarl, growl or go broommmm much like a Fulvia. My memory is that mine with a straight-through system had a staccato bark, which was frequently enjoyed best by winding the windows down when gunning it out of the Euston underpass or the kink in the Hyde Park Corner tunnel. All long before speed-cameras of course.

Colin


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 02 December, 2009, 02:11:28 PM

I've fond memories of that Hyde Park corner tunnel - and the road that wriggled north/south accross Hyde Park - and of never being asked to be the designated driver again  ;D   

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: Peter W on 03 December, 2009, 12:13:38 PM
Back in the 60s my Aprilia was equipped with a Servais exhaust system which I finished off with a length of chrome plated copper pipe to formed a rather smart tail pipe.  The whole ensemble created a most satisfying growl.

Peter


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 07 March, 2010, 11:57:57 AM
So here's what it USED to be like...

http://www.hi-think.it/luzzago/hipgscheda.php?HIGNIdAuto=9974


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: JohnMillham on 07 March, 2010, 12:02:29 PM
When I saw that picture a few days ago I thought of you. To my mind, there's nothing wrong with the early wings on the later car.
 Regards, John


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 07 March, 2010, 09:14:32 PM

...its only you saying that that's made me notice!! 

I really hadn't clocked its early wings on a late car...

The other pictures that jumped out this week are these:

http://www.supercars.net/cars/3501.html

(as seen on that German site that thinks the Queen had an Aurelia)

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 10 January, 2011, 11:05:29 AM

No progress at all since October 2009...  At least its still there.  Meanwhile having rembered the story of how it came to be on the "first Lancia's thread" here it is. 

As to dates the engine and box came my way 16 years ago, the chassis swap was at this address so "only" in the last ten years.  CERN's threads working on cars he's had since the early 70's, and John Turner finially getting his Lambda saloon togeather give me hope that EVENTUALLY this will get done. 

====

Memories trickle back - there was the Aprilia engine and box to go into the Austin special I'd built. 

With all that torque a late type axle with longer tapers seemed sensible. 

Then I thought proper brakes would be handy so I aquired an Augusta front axle and steering box. 

I then realised with just a chassis, rear springs, and a the new prop I'd need anyway and it could be "as well as" rather than an upgrade so I got those bits as well and started bolting it togeather.  An Augusta bonnet and rad shell found their way to me, and a steering wheel, and another couple of Aprilia boxes and another engine or two...  It occured to be this could hold the road and cruise well and make quite a decent little road car.

Meanwhile I'd talked a friend into the Augusta chassis at Ron's that I'd rather taken a fancy to when hunting for an Aurelia.  He wanted to chop the wheelbase, thought it a bit heavy to be competitive, wasn't happy with such a tall scuttle.  He needed a rad shell, bonnet, steering box and wheel.  I'd keep telling him of its virtues and chivvy him along. 

One day on the phone talking through how to stiffen the Austin chassis and get some luggage capacity (he chivvying ME along) it occured to us that as each saw more virtue in the others project the answer was to swap.  I dug out a spare front axle for a "pure and simple" Austin chassis for him and of course the Augusta bits I had finished that jigsaw so the trade was done.  I got the longer wheelbase for seats and/or luggage, space for a long range tank, wider cockpit, proper seats, and something a bit more imposing for road use.  He got an ultra-light and compact chassis that would "build itself".

Of course both projects aren't yet finished, but at least neither now dare nag the other about progress.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 24 January, 2012, 11:22:40 AM

Someone asked "how's progress" - well its still there, and still nothing more since that day in October 2009 when I screwed the wings and lights on.

Ah - a little progress - some parts have made it from Southport to Will How - so I have an excuse and motivation to make it to the Surrey Monthly - depending on half term plans maybe (whisper it) the next one...

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 09 November, 2013, 08:15:49 PM

Some progress!!

James said "who has a spare axle" and I did, and I wanted to see his project rolling, but the question was "do I need the spare...?"

The way to answer that is to remove the axle from the car, dig out the spare, take them both to James and he'll tell me.  Fingers crossed I get back a good-un and he (and we!!) get to see his next project come together.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 09 November, 2013, 08:26:27 PM

Not great timing for me - but "kill two birds with one stone" James collecting his project was the same weekend Simon was flying into the country and with some Flavia consortium courier work to do from the Derby area perhaps it was worth forgetting the pumpkin carving and burning a little midnight oil.

Six bolts - five sheared, one rounded.  Ten mins into the job I was like a pig in poo with it.  Not too much trouble getting it free - it responded to the largest rubber hammer, some jumping up and down, and a tyre lever to finish.

Axle with drums and hubs but without shoes and cylinders is 44kg. 

Axle with just the stubs is 27kg. 

Wheel and tyres (ex Aurelia) 14kg.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 09 November, 2013, 08:36:12 PM

Arrived !!

Nearly didn't...   

It was a dark and stormy night and the car died a mile short of the Welsh boarder.  Quite an adventure without much light and no wipers. Got a lift the last four miles to Clyro in time for a jar with Ron and last orders for food. In the morning it had mended itself.  What could it be?   20 miles on the same symptoms - radio goes, then wipers, instruments playing up.   Pick a spot to stop and discuss with Simon (in convoy) and just as I say "best call the RAC" it dies again.

£19.99 for a brush pack for the alternator out the back of the RAC van and we're rolling again.  Beautiful weather, fabulous views, the axles made it to Wrexham and Simon made all his stops.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 09 November, 2013, 08:41:35 PM

Some more from the trip.


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 09 November, 2013, 08:46:07 PM

The story for that last photo is "half the suspension was perfect, half worn, turns out there was a block in the lubrication pipe that goes from the steering box down the arm along the drag link along that arm into the back plate round the pivots through the cross tube to then do all of the other side".

Alas no time to look - but it has vacuum servo split circuit cable brakes, with another complete system for the hand brake.

After sorting all that lot out building the body was more of a curtain call than a project...

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 09 November, 2013, 09:06:20 PM

So I go to sort out the garage - its stuffed.  The first thing I trip over is the pair of rear wings for the Augusta ex-Andrew Tait.  "Do I really want them?  Will they fit and look ok?"  So out with some blocks of wood and some clamps and a happy half hour later I conclude that rotated forward and the first six inches cut off they'd look quite sporty.

With the wings on I think "will those Austin A40 seats be too wide or do I need to rebuild those pukka Augusta seats".   A happy half hour later I've made some basic floors and dug the seats out the loft and come to a conclusion there as well.

A week or so later and with a half hour free of an evening I print one of the photos A4 and take a tracing to doodle bodywork.  I've yet to scan my efforts but please print this one off and have a go...

As for the Augusta seats I thought they were heading for James's new project but it turns out they're too good for that and have gone to his dad.

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: chugga boom on 09 November, 2013, 11:31:20 PM
as my dad has NO seats for his belna cabriolet I thought it only fair, much appreciated and was great to catch up with you both,


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: Dilambdaman on 18 November, 2013, 11:38:40 AM
David, Keep the faith!

A couple of pictures to encourage you! The Dilambda got there and so will you. :)

Robin.


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 17 January, 2015, 01:53:08 AM

My brother is due to take the top out of a tree and the car was in the way.  To move the car back I first needed to move a ton of ballast left over from the last concrete job and a pallet of cement.  That done it was a pleasure to pressure wash the drive, knock up a dolly and back she went nice as pie.  I was pleased with the design as it gives really good access for the jack.  It rolled back on the dolly but went back on the jack to straighten up.

So the car is still with me.   Andy's recent comment about "stupidity in the halcyon days of youth when everything seemed possible" rings true.  Never say never, and when time is available a lot can get done in a short period elapsed.

I also remind myself how much I like having it as a "static exhibit".

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 17 January, 2015, 01:57:48 AM

My next little project is to make some chocks to replace the bricks.  Its not all that secure at the front...  The scheme is to make them single piece to go right under the tyre like "tyre shoes" (see link below).  I've got some chunky wood too rotten for much else and a big bandsaw so "a job of moments".

https://www.autopyjama.com/tireshoes-uk/?locale=en_US&gclid=COyv3Kn2mcMCFQjLtAodTE4AkA

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: Parisien on 17 January, 2015, 09:00:03 AM
Even semi-naked it looks glorious, good luck!


P


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: the.cern on 17 January, 2015, 02:56:16 PM
Well David, I missed the throwaway lineback in November 2013, 'The way to answer that is to remove the axle from the car ...' !!!! I had not realised that your project was currently sans axle. I think you will be the first to agree that the sills in the area of the front axle appear a little tired. I will let you know how I get on with mine when I get a chance to attack it.

I am hopeful that I will be able to do the B20/Gussie swap this week, but I have thought that several times before yet it is still not done!! If I can get it done in time then I will make Jim a very happy man. Show him some rusty sills, give him access to an angle grinder and then stand well back!!!

More to follow, sometime ..

                                  Andy


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 17 January, 2015, 03:08:55 PM

On mine the "floor" of that section on the passenger side has gone completely.  The accident repair is all too apparent. 

I await your investigations with interest. 

David


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 17 January, 2015, 03:13:48 PM
A bit of inspiration.


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 22 May, 2019, 01:56:59 PM

The value of the forum...I was able to find photos of how I last moved it needing to move it again.

Trouble is I've been a while down memory lane...but at least I've now found the cradle and the other cradle thing for moving the other thing that had borrowed those casters.



Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 15 June, 2019, 10:35:57 AM

Zoe was inspired by a Chelsea garden to take some pictures:

https://www.gardendesignjournal.com/features/rhs-chelsea-2019-haywards-high-maintenance-garden

Had borrowed the skate wheels to move a sofa and forgot that they don't go back in the middle or the balance is wrong...  Could have moved them but it was ok going slowly on the jack.  I push a rear tyre and kick the brick along.  Maybe I'll make proper chocks for it today.

BMW on runflats (car long gone, don't recommend those tyres, thought we'd bought a car with normal tyres as it had a spare but got caught) was forever needing to be topped up so got an electric pump for it, and now have a converter to battery clips.  Handy wee thing.


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 15 June, 2019, 10:38:37 AM
.


Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 15 June, 2019, 10:45:31 AM

Rear wings from Andy Tait, yet to hang them on the back to fill the cover out.  Would help keep the puddles off so would even pay me back the time :)

Austin 7 looked a lot smaller than last time it rolled out into the sunshine...or have they got a lot taller...?   Of course I had to go for a ride in the Augusta to look forward to road runs in convoy, "all done by christmas".

The progress is throwing a lot of stuff away - the football collection etc - so can actually get into the garage.  A7 off its trailer, can even see the Aprillia engine in "Marie Celeste" corner.  The aspiration for this year is the Austin 7 on the road.  Have got another phase of the building down the bottom done, "the welding studio", so metal and wood dust, and sparks and wood dust, don't have to mix.  Phase 3 has had a redesign to be much simpler quicker and cheaper to get done.  Might (perhaps) get a start on that this year as well. 

For now pleased to still have them...and the facilities...






Title: Re: Augusta special
Post by: DavidLaver on 15 June, 2019, 10:48:10 AM

Jan 2015 I was talking about wheel chocks as well.