Lancia Motor Club

Model Technical and Interest => Fulvia => Topic started by: nthomas1 on 02 February, 2018, 05:53:46 PM



Title: Seat Recliner Mechanism Disassembly
Post by: nthomas1 on 02 February, 2018, 05:53:46 PM
Has anybody dismantled a front seat recliner assembly?  I need to disassemble at least one of mine as the chrome is in very poor condition - flaking away in places -  and I want to have the outer plate re-chromed.  I've removed the small screw that holds the two main plates together and am now faced, as expected, with what is probably a quite strong spring.  I'm interested in any tips on next steps - in addition to wearing safety glasses!  I know I'll have to unhook the spring from the retaining lip at right in the photo below.
 


Title: Re: Seat Recliner Mechanism Disassembly
Post by: lancialulu on 02 February, 2018, 10:01:52 PM
lovely patina. why Americanise it???


Title: Re: Seat Recliner Mechanism Disassembly
Post by: fay66 on 02 February, 2018, 10:35:24 PM
lovely patina. why Americanise it???
Im in agreement with Tim, the ones on my 2c Berlina are painted, yes I could get them repainted but as I use my 2c I see no need for the paint to be pristine, up to Autoglym Show Standard, rather than reflect her age and usage.
Besides anything else I wouldn't want to be messing around with a spring that size :o
Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Seat Recliner Mechanism Disassembly
Post by: nthomas1 on 02 February, 2018, 10:51:19 PM
lovely patina. why Americanise it???

Patina I can live with.  This is the one I'm worried about.


Title: Re: Seat Recliner Mechanism Disassembly
Post by: frankxhv773t on 03 February, 2018, 12:06:26 AM
I'm with you Norman. I will watch with interest as I will need to do similar ones on the Flaminia.


Title: Re: Seat Recliner Mechanism Disassembly
Post by: SanRemo78 on 03 February, 2018, 11:04:55 AM
Might be easier to replace that repair/replate?

https://www.ebay.it/itm/Coppia-guida-sedile-USATA-Lancia-Fulvia-Coupe/182347156757?hash=item2a74bccd15:g:ngQAAOSwwbdWINFe

Guy


Title: Re: Seat Recliner Mechanism Disassembly
Post by: nthomas1 on 03 February, 2018, 11:11:19 AM
Definitely easier Guy, but not really affordable.  If I'm not careful I could easily spend more on the rebuild of my S2 than the cost of a good HF!   Having blown my budget on welding and anticipating blowing my budget on paint, I want to restore as much of the componentry as I can with out replacing.  I'm hoping someone can advise me of the secret to removing these springs.


Title: Re: Seat Recliner Mechanism Disassembly
Post by: Jaydub on 03 February, 2018, 12:31:46 PM
Hi Norm
Assuming you have or access to, a vice, clamp it TIGHTLY and wrap some locking wire around the outer end of the spring and the other end of the wire around the stem of a strong screwdriver, and pull it away from the anchor point and release it by prising it upwards at the same time. Count the number of turns beforehand. Make sure the wire is strong enough and BE CAREFUL! That`s the method I used to dismantle a similar mechanism on a Mercedes. Be aware it is tricky!


Title: Re: Seat Recliner Mechanism Disassembly
Post by: lancialulu on 03 February, 2018, 01:13:01 PM
I had a look at doing this work when restoring both my 1600HF and Sport. From memory undoing the spring is the easy bit (in inverted commas). I think the whole assembly is riveted together and I concluded it would be easier to find a better pair, which I did. You may find a chromer who can rechrome the outer face as a complete assembly?????


Title: Re: Seat Recliner Mechanism Disassembly
Post by: DavidLaver on 03 February, 2018, 04:50:15 PM

Is it possible to remove whatever stops it unwinding?   Then "just" unwind it, and reassembly "just" the reverse.

Against that idea (as well as loosing the stop...) is that I expect the spring would expand and bind...


Title: Re: Seat Recliner Mechanism Disassembly
Post by: Scott on 04 February, 2018, 07:51:06 AM
From the replies so far these seem difficult to take to pieces ...  but because plating involves immersing the whole piece in solution then taking everything to pieces would seem inevitable so the spring etc. aren't affected.
However have you considered a paint option? Whilst you could do a DIY option with an aerosol you may find a local paint shop that uses something like HydroChrome (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TDtUHo5cSE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TDtUHo5cSE) for an example). This would give you a good finish but as a more controllable painting process you can mask off things you want untouched and leave the pieces assembled. As quite small pieces I can't believe you'd be quoted a lot which is useful when you're trying to keep costs under control. [Painting may also give you more options around how to tackle those hidden rusty areas as no plating company is going to touch the parts until they're back to pristine bare metal].
Just an idea...


Title: Re: Seat Recliner Mechanism Disassembly
Post by: lancialulu on 04 February, 2018, 08:38:01 AM
[Painting may also give you more options around how to tackle those hidden rusty areas as no plating company is going to touch the parts until they're back to pristine bare metal].
Just an idea...

From my experience plating shops cannot cope with painted items but rust is dealt by them with in one of the initial processes followed by polishing the bare metal before the actual tri metal plating process and final polishing.


Title: Re: Seat Recliner Mechanism Disassembly
Post by: nthomas1 on 04 February, 2018, 01:42:53 PM
Some great input from you all.  Much food for thought.

As you know, from the start I’ve been concerned about the difficulty of removing the spring, and then whether it would be possible to refit it afterwards.  I was thinking along the lines of something like John described for removing the spring, but not sure how to then replace it.  However, Tim makes a good point about parts being riveted together.  It would be frustrating to get the spring off only to then find that the disassembly process is stalled because of the use of rivets.  I’ll take a closer look at the assemblies when I get back to the UK at the end of the week.

The alternative is paint.  The process that Scott provided the link to looks impressive.  I has heard of places that provide this service in the USA but when I looked around in the UK a while back I couldn’t find anybody.  It would be interesting to know how hard wearing the finish is.

When I had one of my wheels blasted and powder coated, the company I used had a very high-shine silver finish which, whilst not chrome, would probably look pretty good.  However, i think it was a powder coating, which probably needs the part to be disassembled to allow the prep stages to be performed.

Another option would be to just use a diy high-shine silver paint and accept that the assemblies will not have a chrome appearance.  The big issue with any paint treatment will be how to prep. The advantage of disassembly is that it would allow the part to be stripped in the appropriate chemical bath.  If I were to pursue a painting approach on the still-assembled part I’d have to figure out how to prep it; maybe grind off as much of the pitted and flaking chrome as possible, then apply some sort of “difficult-surface” primer?


Title: Re: Seat Recliner Mechanism Disassembly
Post by: stanley sweet on 04 February, 2018, 02:41:35 PM
If you go down the paint route have you thought about a different finish? I was thinking something like a crackle black finish which would look quite smart and period. The problem with a lot of silver paints is they tend to be quite soft. I know black crackle wouldn't be original but neither is silver paint so from your point of view I wouldn't be too worried about it.


Title: Re: Seat Recliner Mechanism Disassembly
Post by: nthomas1 on 04 February, 2018, 03:19:11 PM
If you go down the paint route have you thought about a different finish? I was thinking something like a crackle black finish which would look quite smart and period. The problem with a lot of silver paints is they tend to be quite soft. I know black crackle wouldn't be original but neither is silver paint so from your point of view I wouldn't be too worried about it.

That's an interesting idea Stanley.  I had wondered about black but hadn't thought about crackle finish.  More grist for the mill.
 


Title: Re: Seat Recliner Mechanism Disassembly
Post by: DavidLaver on 04 February, 2018, 08:54:41 PM
crackle black is a nice idea...

...or phone round the usual specialists for better?  (I've forgotten the name of the trimmer many in the LMC have used - eg him)

...or fit different seats?


Title: Re: Seat Recliner Mechanism Disassembly
Post by: nthomas1 on 04 February, 2018, 10:25:25 PM
crackle black is a nice idea...

...or phone round the usual specialists for better?  (I've forgotten the name of the trimmer many in the LMC have used - eg him)

...or fit different seats?

I've had the seats re-upholstered, and I've had the frames sandblasted, and then I painted the frames and other components, so I'm committed to sticking with these seats.  I'm sure there's a good solution!


Title: Re: Seat Recliner Mechanism Disassembly
Post by: frankxhv773t on 07 February, 2018, 05:27:55 PM
I'm just throwing ideas around, but if rivets had to be drilled out to disassemble could small bolts be then used to reassemble? Is there anything useful in simonandjuliet's experience of masking off the threads on his Aprilia Cabrio re-chroming?


Title: Re: Seat Recliner Mechanism Disassembly
Post by: nthomas1 on 08 February, 2018, 07:28:10 AM
I'm just throwing ideas around, but if rivets had to be drilled out to disassemble could small bolts be then used to reassemble? Is there anything useful in simonandjuliet's experience of masking off the threads on his Aprilia Cabrio re-chroming?

I'll take a look at that Frank.  I'm angling away from paint now as only one of the eight major components (two each side of each seat) really needs re-chroming.  The others should all clean up OK I think.


Title: Re: Seat Recliner Mechanism Disassembly
Post by: simonandjuliet on 08 February, 2018, 07:52:36 AM
I think that if it was mine, I would not take it to pieces but look into spray chrome. I haven't tried it but picked up the card for someone at a show last year. They seem to be able to chrome anything and it looks excellent (and shiny) but may not be as hard wearing

I will be at Retromobile today (assuming Paris has thawed out a bit) and will keep an eye open for someone doing spray chrome and ask the question


Title: Re: Seat Recliner Mechanism Disassembly
Post by: frankxhv773t on 10 February, 2018, 08:53:46 PM
Norm, if only one bit is beyond salvation that sounds like a case for finding a decent spare. There must be some out there.


Title: Re: Seat Recliner Mechanism Disassembly
Post by: my69S1 on 07 November, 2019, 01:50:51 AM
I'm just throwing ideas around, but if rivets had to be drilled out to disassemble could small bolts be then used to reassemble? Is there anything useful in simonandjuliet's experience of masking off the threads on his Aprilia Cabrio re-chroming?

I'll take a look at that Frank.  I'm angling away from paint now as only one of the eight major components (two each side of each seat) really needs re-chroming.  The others should all clean up OK I think.

How did you make out with disassembling your seat recliners?  Any luck or did you just paint them?


Title: Re: Seat Recliner Mechanism Disassembly
Post by: nthomas1 on 07 November, 2019, 09:19:59 AM


How did you make out with disassembling your seat recliners?  Any luck or did you just paint them?


[/quote]

I could see how to grind off the large rivet but couldn't figure out how I would be able to reassemble so I bought a used recliner in better condition than mine. It's not as good as I'd like so I'm still on the lookout for a set that are mint/excellent in keeping with the rest of the car.  For information, I got quotes from five rechroming companies - all between £160 and £200 per seat, assuming mechanisms disassembled first.


Title: Re: Seat Recliner Mechanism Disassembly
Post by: lancialulu on 07 November, 2019, 09:28:24 AM
On another forum a German owner describes grinding the big central rivet lurking under the black plastic cap, and blobbing weld onto the remains of the rivet head on reassembly..... Not sure I would trust the integrity of such move. The rivet is very strong and is holding the whole hinge together.