Lancia Motor Club

Model Technical and Interest => Fulvia => Topic started by: Minari on 20 December, 2017, 05:09:35 PM

Title: Alloys for track day use
Post by: Minari on 20 December, 2017, 05:09:35 PM
Having p/xd my series 3 Fulvia for a series 2 rally prepared car (running HF negative camber)  in the Summer I would like to switich my steel road wheels with the set of 5.5J 14 Cromodora that have with a set of Yokohama Advan 185/60 R14s tyres for track day, use as the Cromodoras will look so much better. But that  leaves me with the task of getting a set of suitable alloy wheels for the Yokohamas. I am wary about 6J x 14s as the car is based  a standard series 2 coupe, and I understand 6js may rub on the inner wheel arches so another set of 5.5j seem to make sense only problem is that Cromodoras (ex Flavia 2000) seem to be like hen's teeth so I have been looking at alternatives and Minilites or their cheaper alternative of JBW Mini Lights seem like good options but I would appreciate any advice, I am not certain if there is any real difference in quality between the UK made "genuine" Minilites and the Chinese made alternatives which are over 40 per wheel cheaper.

Title: Re: Alloys for track day use
Post by: lancialulu on 20 December, 2017, 05:49:32 PM
Just be aware that the 6J Cromodora was specifically designed with its offset around the HF negative camber front suspension. The 5.5 J's dont work as well with this setup. With much more understeer. I know as I had this on my Sport (HF suspension) and a very knowledgeable Fulvista pointed out my error. I swapped to 6j's (adjusting the Sport wheel arches) and the handling was comparable with my 1600HF (before not so)....

Title: Re: Alloys for track day use
Post by: Minari on 21 December, 2017, 11:19:34 AM
Hi Tim, Thanks for the info as usual life is never simple! I guess it really comes down to what would be involved in avoiding problems with rubbing on the inner wheel arches if I was using 6js. From what I can see it will be much easier to source 6j x 14 cromodoras so the minilite options may not be necessary. Any advice about modifying wheel arches would be appreciated.

Have a great Xmas!

Title: Re: Alloys for track day use
Post by: lancialulu on 21 December, 2017, 02:38:39 PM
I would try the 6 js and see where it rubs. 6j replicas are reasonably priced but a bit heavier than originals as there is no magnesium content. I think interference will be only at the back , and when the suspension is exercised, like hitting a depression on the motorway. Then you know the suspension is working! You most likely will need to roll the rear arches which is a pain as it may show up some hidden corrosion and a partial repaint.

Title: Re: Alloys for track day use
Post by: Minari on 04 January, 2018, 07:39:55 PM
Hi Tim, Things have moved on as I have been offered a set of 6 x 14 cromodoras and also been recommended to stay with the existing 5.5j cromodoras with the Yokohamas for track day use these are using spacers and apparently the car handles really well probably  beyond my level of expertise anyway! So really it is matter of choosing the right road tyre for the 6 x 14s which I assume will dispense with the spacers, the car has wheel arch extensions but otherwise I would assume is a standard S2 body. Currently the steel wheels are using 185/ 60 directional tyres (Sportiva Z60) which is mid range summer tyre made by Continental. If the S2 would normally run on 165/80s then the car is currently undergeared by 7% and the existing tyre is 1.7" shorter than the standard which I assume reduces the risk of fouling the wheel arches when mounted on 6x14. For road use it would appear that 175x80 offer the optimum ride with an   increase in gearing  of c 2.5% from standard  a total difference from the present of 9.5%. The the height is 0.5" higher than standard and 2.2" over the existing set up so with the 6j offset I can see how we could be facing issues with fouling the wheel arches. If we assume that we wish to reduce the risk of fouling the wheel arches, would a compromise of 175/70 make any sense? these would still be undergeared 3.3% but would be about 0.8" shorter than standard and 1.3" shorter than 175/80 but obviously a lower profile than the optimum.  I probably would go for an all season tyre as I have a home in Slovakia as well as UK and may wish to drive out late Autumn to return mid April to UK - it is mandatory out here to run winter or all season rated tyres from November to mid April and in Austria (close to us) and that period can be extended to any time there is risk of ice, snow or slush.  Goodyear Vector 4 Season Gen 2 seem to be available in both 175/80 and 70 not so sure about Michelin Cross Climates but it would be interesting if anyone has any experience of Fulvias on all season tyres.

Any advice very welcome. Regards Mike

Title: Re: Alloys for track day use
Post by: Jai Sharma on 04 January, 2018, 09:21:12 PM
I suggest it would be worth considering how much time you want to spend on the track compared to time on the road (and possibly in winter). If you want ultimate grip you can get 185 or 195/60 profile really sticky tyres like Toyo or Yokohama (or at least you used to be able to). It will make it buzzier and harsher for road use so you may not want that end of the scale. 175/70 or something similar might be a better idea if you want to do a lot of road use and just occasional track time. I don't have any all season experience I am afraid.

Be aware that if you spend a lot of time on track it is a good idea to baffle the sump especially if you use very sticky rubber (which has grip far beyond what was around in the 70's). It is not that hard to do and the sump can be removed in situ.

Title: Re: Alloys for track day use
Post by: Minari on 05 January, 2018, 11:08:47 AM
Hi Thanks for your advice, my priority is road use, I have the wheels and tyres for track days, tyres are Yokohama Advan AO48 and these are on 5.5 j Cromodoras running spacers so the offset actually may be the equivalent to running 6j so I have been advised to keep that set up for track days. For road use I have standard steel wheels running the 185/60 sportiva tyres and to be honest I am quite happy with their performance but I also acknowledge that may be it could be better. I have also been advised to stay with or close to the original 80 profile tyres  for road use, and that suggests 175/80 but these tyres are definitely quite a bit higher than the 185/60 so the risk of fouling the standard S2 wheel arches is I assume increased so that is why I was thinking about a compromise 175/70. The real reason for all this is that I want to run the car on Cromodoras for road use as the current steel wheels (painted black) do not do it justice (aethisically). The reason for looking at All Season tyres is really down to personal circumstances as I want to use the car both in the UK and Central Europe where we have no option but to run winter or all season tyres from Nov to mid April, irrespective if there is any snow about. We also have some great roads which are virtually empty as everyone else are madly tailgating each other on the motorways!

Title: Re: Alloys for track day use
Post by: angelorange on 20 March, 2018, 09:20:52 AM
Best winters are Continental TS range, Goodyear Ultragrip, Pirelli Stoto 3, Nokian Hakkapeliitta. Bridgestone make the Blizzak range.

The Michelin Cross Climates are good all rounders but not very common sizes.

You can get 145/80R14 winter tyres (same as Audi A2 1,2tdi) which I have on steel rims.