Lancia Motor Club

hi, my car will not start I have had it started and driving up and down the  street, for some reason it will not start now, it is almost there I have a spark at the plugs they are wet not too bad.

how many jets are there? I have had the top off the float chamber and the 4 jets 2 large 2 small they seem ok. I did not realise you could get to them by removing the small covers on top of the chambers.

I have looked inside the chokes and operated the throttle should I see petrol? I am a bit lost as what to do next, I feel as though I am almost there ready for the mot.

I would appreciate any help with this problem.

cheers bill.

the car has an electric pump and I can hear it running.

do you have a spark?

Other threads recently identified fuse 7 or ignition switch as culprit.

Tim

hi tim, i have a spark, not a one to give up I have been back in the garage removed all the plugs and dried them. the car fired straight away, it is still not right i does not pick up the way I would like.
I think I will try a new set of plugs, what can you recomend also what is the gap. I would still appreciate any more help, one last thing, although I have put petrol in could poss. be the old petrol, the car has been standing for over 3 years,? also it was normal petrol I put in.

thank you.

bill.

Bill
What carburettors are fitted, have you the correct information on how to set them up as it sounds more like the carbs are not set up correctly.
In your place I'd make sure it was fresh petrol as stale fuel probably won't help.
for the last 10 years and 16K I've used unleaded, occasionally adding a bottle of Millers VSP Fuel Additive, but if you go the fuel additive route, make sure you stick with the same one and not chop and change, as the chemical composition differs and mixing isn't a good idea.
I also from time to time bung in a tankful of the super petrol, or whatever it is they call it, that costs about 10p a litre more.

Brian
8227 8)

Bill

Spark plugs - I now always use NGK's (BP7ES or later variant) in preference to Champion as trhe latter always foul more. Gap .55-.65mm.

Sounds like you need to get a manual. There are plenty that come up on ebay from time to time and not much money, or Omicron, or buy the CD rom on www.Vivalancia.

I say this as dealing with the more exotic parts of a fulvia such as overhauling the carbs and othe mechanicals is difficult without such guides.

I agree with Brian that fueling throught carbs is likely problem area, and a strip down and overhaul with a carb kit off ebay is a good option for an old fulvia. By the way make sure you have the drip tray fitted under the carbs as these solexes do leak fuel when old and they are above a sparking alternator!

Tim

After servicing the carbs, they must be rebalanced with vacuum meters, otherwise the engine will never run OK. Andrea.

I made the trip up to Omicron way back when having rebuilt my carbs and was prepared to spend money on their vacuum balancing equipment.

However, on arrival I was "taught" by Martin Cliffe by ear and it has never failed to achieve a smooth running tick over fulvia since.

Tim

A number of years ago Omicron displayed their balancing equipment at an AGM? and I was mightly impressed, so as my series 1, 1.3 Rallye Coupe wasn't running right I booked her into Omicron to go on this super bit of kit to be sorted out; when I got to Omicron Martin set the carbs up by ear and making a fine job of it in the process, I asked about the balancing equipment and was told that they had decided Martin could do it a lot easier and just as well by experience and a bit if tubing!

Brian
8227 8)

Good to know that some members have much better ears than mine to rebalance the carbs! The point however is to compare on the same car and at the same time if "ear balancing" and vacuum meter balancing produce the same effect. In my experience it is really very unusual to find well balanced carbs on a Fulvia. The car may seem to run fine, but it might even go better... :) :). Andrea

Andrea,
do you use a twin vacuum meter as shown in the manual or a proprietary item?

Brian
8227 8)

In the old days at Harry's garage, we used a giant meter, a bit like those shown in the Lancia manuals. By the way, measuring instruments based on mercury are now considered to be illegal by our EU masters. What I do is to use the two vacuum holes in the intake manifold (easily accessible after removing the bolts) and, with threaded adaptors, to connect them, via rubber tubing, to two vacuum meters that are normally sold by motor factors (cheap and often sold under motorcycle equipment; see Demon Tweeks for instance). This system works very well and accurately on all Fulvias I have tested during many years. Only two points to be noted:

1. one should fabricate the adaptors. In the old days I put suitable size bolts in a lathe and drilled them through. In reality, a good machine shop can make them easily. Of course, the adaptors must fit tightly otherwise the whole exercise is pointless. This is why plastic push-through adaptors are unhelpful.

2. the needle oscillations (in synchrony with the engine firing) on the meters must dampened, otherwise it is impossible to read an accurate value due to large needle fluctuations. This is best done by fitting screw-adjusters to the tubing (the sort of stuff used to restrict gas flow or fluid flow in biomedical applications).

An advantage of this system is that one can get useful info also on engine valve operation. Moreover, the suction effect is actually measured very near the engine cylinder head so detecting the actual flow to the combustion chambers, and can be adjusted to compensate for any action by the brake servo (sometime fitted aftermarket even to early S1 Fulvias).

If you follow this option I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
Best regards, Andrea

   

A question on this discussion:

If you are going to really play around with the carb settings don't you need to balance the throttles before you balance the carbs? Using the two ports in the manifold helps to balance one carb relative to the other - but only holds true if the individual throttles have been balanced. Otherwise you are just balancing #2 throttle and #3 throttle from memory?

As the carbs are now getting on a bit, investigating the throttle balance (so identifying bore wear, butterfly wear, spindle wear and individual set up) across a single carb might be advisable prior to balancing the carbs?

Or is the general experience that the carbs are still good enough that this is unnecessary ?

Neil

Neil

On this general discussion I can only provide my own experience. On Fulvia cars which don't have stratospheric mileage and did not a lot of heavy use (track racing, rallying etc), carbs are usually very longlasting and little prone to wear. Thus, balancing the carbs on the manifold is often OK, actually very effective :). Simultaneously, I also adjust the 4 individual carbs on the basis of their effects on the exhaust CO reading. Again, it is curious to see how carb balancing and CO content are closely related, even if this is not immediately intuitive and is often overlooked.

Interestingly, the most recent carbs (Solex) fitted to late S2 and S3 cars are less durable probably because they were built with materials not so good like the S1 carbs. A case of the older, the better.

Finally, carbs (especially Solexes) are often blamed for poor performance which originates else where (ignition etc). It is however a good idea to check that carbs have not been tampered in the past and they contain all the right components (again unexpected mixtures of jets and needle valves are not rare :D).
Ciao
Andrea



 

I agree with that, mine were all over the place and the idle jets looked as though they had been adjusted by a gorilla  ;D Another job for the winter !

Does anyone know what the idle CO reading should be?  I have looked through the manual and although it says this should be checked it does not give a figure ???

Sean

Max CO = 4.5 %. Avoid running with <3.5 % as the mixture become too lean with the notorious consequences for the engine.
Andrea

Having just replaced the full fuel system on my 1976 Fulvia 1.3 S3, (new tank, carb overhauls, fuel filters pipes & hose), I found that the easiest way to balance the carbs was to use a syncronometer. This is nothing more than an airflow meter designed to seal on each individual trumpet.

Having had the carbs rebuilt by Gower & Lee, they were set up as per the manual, mixture screws screwed in fully (very gently though) & then backed off one quarter turn. Balance set by eye. The engine was then started and the syncronometer used to measure the airflow to each barrel. Surprisingly, as they looked to be perfectly balanced,  the rear pair showed a flow of 10 & the fronts 3. Adjusting the balance soon had them both sitting a 10 (not sure what the divisions are!) & the engine running quite smoothly.

After that, the mixture screws were screwed out & the engine speed increases. When the increase stopped, the idle speed was slowed to normal & the next screw adjusted. Once all 4 were done, a couple of test runs of about 6 miles over differing terrain for minor adjustments & she seems to be running as sweet as a nut.

hi, nice to see the interest reg. starting problems, I am hoping to get some help in setting up the carbs.
still having starting problems, if I take the plugs out dry and heat them a little, the car starts no problem could this be a bad spark ? once again your help is very much appreciated.
just like to say how much my wife and I enjoyed sunday at the agm.

regards to all.
bill.

If you use NGK BP(R)7ES and they are in good condition, the wet plugs suggest rather than lack of fuel a weak spark. Good idea to go back  step-wise from the plugs to the HT leads, condenser, points, ignition timing, distributor cap, rotor arm and coil. Fulvia engines are very sensitive to incorrect dwell angle and timing. Andrea