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Title: The nightmare after Christmas Post by: aprilia1972 on 31 December, 2010, 12:34:15 PM Hello -
Thank you for your advice regarding the sloppy gearchange - it was as suggested a broken gear stick and worn gear selector. This morning, I received the replacement parts in the post and set about fitting them to the car. I took care to select neutral and delicately removed the selector. The replacement parted was fitted and the stick, cup and grub srew assembly reconstructed. My heart sank when it began clear that during the process first gear had been engaged with the gear selector in neutral. Any suggestion on how I might rescue the situation ? Is there a way to somehow force the gearbox into neutral without damaging it? Or is it case of finding a garage to rebuilt the 'box? In hope. Charles Title: Re: The nightmare after Christmas Post by: johnturner on 31 December, 2010, 04:36:52 PM Its a long time since I've done it but I reckon you should be able to shift the fork through the hole in the top of the box. It takes a lot of leverage and a suitable device (gearlever?) but not impossible?
Title: Re: The nightmare after Christmas Post by: aprilia1972 on 31 December, 2010, 04:55:12 PM Hello John - thank you very much for the advice. Dark now but I'll have a crack tomorrow.
Title: Re: The nightmare after Christmas Post by: JohnMillham on 31 December, 2010, 07:56:58 PM Hello - Thank you for your advice regarding the sloppy gearchange - it was as suggested a broken gear stick and worn gear selector. This morning, I received the replacement parts in the post and set about fitting them to the car. I took care to select neutral and delicately removed the selector. The replacement parted was fitted and the stick, cup and grub srew assembly reconstructed. My heart sank when it began clear that during the process first gear had been engaged with the gear selector in neutral. Any suggestion on how I might rescue the situation ? Is there a way to somehow force the gearbox into neutral without damaging it? Or is it case of finding a garage to rebuilt the 'box? It seems to me that if it's got into a gear, the selector can't be in its groove, so will have to be taken out and put back when the gear (and its selection groove) is in the correct position. I'm a bit surprised that the selector will go into the box when the gear is engaged. I'm not sure which parts you replaced, so I could be barking up the wrong tree. I have rebuilt a few gearboxes in the last few years, but not an Aprilia box. Do you have a drawing? Regards, John Title: Re: The nightmare after Christmas Post by: BlueSky on 31 December, 2010, 10:53:18 PM Sounds like you might have moved one (or two) of the selector rods when fitting the gear stick, not that hard to do. If you can peer inside you can sometimes move them with a bit of wire, otherwise you'll have to remove the gearbox top and line them up. See the two pics for some idea of what's in there!
Noel Title: Re: The nightmare after Christmas Post by: aprilia1972 on 01 January, 2011, 12:25:47 PM Thanks for the tips and really useful picture.
I've managed to feel inside and while the selector plate that sits on top of the rods is moving freely - which allows the gear selector to be fitted - as suggested by Noel, one of the rods has moved. I can't get enough purchase (or even be sure I'm doing the right thing) to line things up again. Unfortunately the aperture in my transmission tunnel isn't big enough to allow me to remove the gear box top in situ. Can anyone recommend a garage in London that might be able to take on the job? thanks again. Title: Re: The nightmare after Christmas Post by: BlueSky on 01 January, 2011, 09:04:45 PM Yes sometime in the past the transmission tunnel on my car was attacked, but I can get to the gearbox easily! In the LMC "Maintaining An Aprilia" booklet they say you can re-align the rods "with a mirror on stalk and bent wire (and the sun in the right direction through gear-lever hole!)" You might just have to be a little more persistent, or instead of a local garage, do you have another friendly Aprilia owner nearby? After all that's part of what owning these great little cars is all about, sharing the knowledge and practical skills.
Title: Re: The nightmare after Christmas Post by: aprilia1972 on 02 January, 2011, 04:58:30 PM Thanks - knowing it can be done has kept me going today. I spent a strangely enjoyable afternoon with a torch, dentists' mirror (£3.99 from Tesco, fits perfectly) and a bent piece of wire. I'm sure I acting on the correct selector rod but I haven't managed to shift it so far.
I'm sure it doesn't help that it's freeze cold outside so I think I'll try running the engine for a while before I have another crack. I just need to convince my wife to hold the torch for another couple of hours.... Title: Re: The nightmare after Christmas Post by: JohnMillham on 02 January, 2011, 05:40:15 PM Thanks - knowing it can be done has kept me going today. I spent a strangely enjoyable afternoon with a torch, dentists' mirror (£3.99 from Tesco, fits perfectly) and a bent piece of wire. I'm sure I acting on the correct selector rod but I haven't managed to shift it so far. Running the engine while in two gears? Doesn't sound like a good idea to me. And I suspect your bit of wire will not be strong enough. A bit of quarter or half inch rod might be better. Good luck, anyway. Regards, John I'm sure it doesn't help that it's freeze cold outside so I think I'll try running the engine for a while before I have another crack. I just need to convince my wife to hold the torch for another couple of hours.... Title: Re: The nightmare after Christmas Post by: aprilia1972 on 02 January, 2011, 07:38:44 PM Hello John,
The 'box is stuck in first, but I thought I'd run the engine for a short while with the clutch dis-engaged. I'll give it another try with the wire then source some rod if necessary. Title: Re: The nightmare after Christmas Post by: aprilia1972 on 06 January, 2011, 07:54:28 AM Another aternoon with the mirror and wire but no lucky.
Thanks for all the advice and encouragement but I think it's beaten me this time. Title: Re: The nightmare after Christmas Post by: davidwheeler on 06 January, 2011, 10:47:11 AM I have had this problem also. I seem to remember using a fair amount of force through a stout screwdriver. Otherwise, unscrew the gearstick from the operating lever, insert the latter into the first gear position and then see if you can disengage things. It is possible I know because I have done it but I cannot remember exactly how! If you do finally manage to free it up then refit the operating lever without the gearstick and only screw this on afterwards. This ennables you to get things into the right position which is not really possible with the gearstick attached as there is insufficient clearance under the dash.
David Title: Re: The nightmare after Christmas Post by: ColinMarr on 06 January, 2011, 10:57:09 AM Charles,
You asked about the possibility of a London garage to help sort out your problem. I guess the gearbox top cover needs to come off and re-fitted with the proper alignment, which shouldn’t be a big job. A small London based Italian car specialist that is less well known than it should be is Proietti in Kings Cross. See their website http://www.proietti.co.uk/ It is a tiny establishment in a back street off the Caledonian Road with no spare space to store cars. So, if you use them try to be very specific about when to take your car in so that they can do the work and you collect without delay. The proprietor is Steff - he is well experienced with looking after Flavia to Stratos and should be sensitive to the older Lancias too. Mentioning my name might help! Good luck with it all. Colin Title: Re: The nightmare after Christmas Post by: davidwheeler on 06 January, 2011, 04:41:32 PM I've been thinking about this all day whilst working on the Lambda. The problem lies in the selector plate. If a gear is engaged without the gear-stick being in place the plate can move across behind the "dog" and prevent the selector rod returning to its proper place. You need to move this out of the way (to the left if you are in bottom gear) and then move the selector rod forwards into its position. You should then be able to refit the bottom part of the gearstick, bolt it all up and then screw on the long upper part. It is not practically possible to remove the box without taking out the engine as it is too difficult to refit the clutch operating yoke - or at least I find it so. I KNOW it is possible to retrieve the situation without taking the top off the box or the box out of the car. Bon courage!! I don't have a spare top cover to take a photo but check out the diagrams in the Technical Information thread.
David 016974 76086 Title: Re: The nightmare after Christmas Post by: aprilia1972 on 07 January, 2011, 07:13:46 PM I think it's impossible to put a 'straight' lever of any kind - screwdriver, gear stick - directly into the box and act on the appropriate rod. Might be possible if the 'box has a gear other than first selected, or if the rods are only slightly out of alignment.
I needed to use a bend piece of heavy wire and it was just not possible to get the leverage required. Colin, thanks for the London garage tip. In the meantime, Andrew from Omicron has visited and collected the car. They'll have a crack at fixing without removing the gearbox -I'll post their technique if successful. Thanks for all the encouragement - Title: Re: The nightmare after Christmas Post by: ColinMarr on 10 January, 2011, 01:52:32 PM In an earlier post David Wheeler said: “It is not practically possible to remove the box without taking out the engine as it is too difficult to refit the clutch operating yoke”. Maybe all Aprilias are not the same in this respect because I have all-too vivid memories of doing just this several times with my 1939 Lusso.
There was a time when my car was chewing its way through clutch release bearings and because of other pressures and the need to keep the car on the road it was easier to replace the bearings (about £1 and10 shillings from Edmunds Walker, my local stockist) rather than find a proper solution, which is another story. As I remember it, it was possible to jiggle the clutch ‘fork’ into place before inserting the vertical rod through the bell housing and tightening the pinch bolt. But then lots of things seemed easier to do in the 1960s! Colin Title: Re: The nightmare after Christmas Post by: Peter W on 12 January, 2011, 11:39:39 PM When the gearbox output shaft on my car sheared on my car I removed the gearbox in the road without removing the engine. I then took the box into work (the deHavilland Engine Company) where the machine tool repair department kindly rebuilt it for me. I do not recall having much difficulty either removing or replacing it, but it was a long time ago.
Peter Title: Re: The nightmare after Christmas Post by: davidwheeler on 19 January, 2011, 09:33:40 PM Well, since my box has decided it doesn't want to go into 1st or reverse any more I might just try it...
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